Will Allah Punish a Good Hindu?

[arthra]

What if the question were

Can Krishna (Deity) forgive a "good" Mleccha?

Is there a "good" Mleccha? The same sort of issue arises for Hinduism does it not?

In the Mahabharata the root Sanskrit word barbar meant stammering, wretch, foreigner, sinful people, low and barbarous.[3]

- Wikipedia

What is a "Kafir"?

Kafir (Arabic: كافر kāfir; plural كفّار kuffār) is an Arabic term used in a Islamic doctrinal sense, usually translated as "unbeliever" or "disbeliever". The term refers to a person who rejects God or who hides, denies, or covers the "truth".


Is there an inherent contradiction in the word "good" and someone who "hides, denies or covers truth"? I think so. A contradiction between the word "good" and a "sinful people" as in the definition of a Mleccha.

 

[Madhuri]

What if the question were

Can Krishna (Deity) forgive a "good" Mleccha?

Yes, he can and does. But even more specifically, he does not give reward and punishment. Remember that in Hinduism we believe in karma. This means our actions bring equal reactions. God does not judge and then punish the way that Abraham religions believe.

Is there a "good" Mleccha? The same sort of issue arises for Hinduism does it not?

There is not so strong an emphasis in Hinduism on 'good' and 'bad' but rather on ignorance and enlightenment. All beings in the material universe have a mix of 'good' and 'bad' depending on our level of spiritual maturity.

Everyone is a 'mleccha' at some point and grow from there.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Madhuri]

Allah is very kind. He will not punish anyone more than his sins. But he will punish that Hindu for not being a Muslim as Allah gave him mind and power to understand things and religions which he did't.

You seem to assume that people cannot be ignorant. Or you contradict by stating that Allah is kind and then stating that he would punish an ignorant person.

 

[arthra]

Madhuri wrote:

Yes, he can and does. But even more specifically, he does not give reward and punishment. Remember that in Hinduism we believe in karma. This means our actions bring equal reactions. God does not judge and then punish the way that Abraham religions believe.

My comment:

I think you do over characterise or possibly misrepresent "what Abraham religions believe".. Karma ..cause and effect and fruits of actions are also recognized in the Bible and Quran..

My son, sow not upon the furrows of unrighteousness, and thou
shalt not reap them sevenfold.

(Deuterocanonical Apocrypha, Sirach)

10:12 Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground: for it is time to seek the LORD, till he come and rain righteousness upon you.

(King James Bible, Hosea)

4:8 Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.

(King James Bible, Job)

25. Except to those who believe and work righteous deeds: for them is a Reward that will never fail.

(The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 84)

 

[Madhuri]

Madhuri wrote:

Yes, he can and does. But even more specifically, he does not give reward and punishment. Remember that in Hinduism we believe in karma. This means our actions bring equal reactions. God does not judge and then punish the way that Abraham religions believe.

My comment:

I think you do over characterise or possibly misrepresent "what Abraham religions believe".. Karma ..cause and effect and fruits of actions are also recognized in the Bible and Quran..

Not in the same way. The system of karma is very, very different.

 

[arthra]

It may be less defined but I think the principle of cause and effect is there nonetheless..also the forgiveness of God.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

It may be less defined but I think the principle of cause and effect is there nonetheless..also the forgiveness of God.

In Hinduism the Law of Karma (cause and effect) is as set out by Ishwar to be Universal, Ishwar's forgiveness and punishments of only the good or bad does not arise, as the Law (Karma) is Universal not partial. As Ishwar is not partial and never distinguishes between someone who believes in it, or someone who does not, the need for forgiveness and punishments does not arise, that is handled by the Law of Karma.

In Hinduism, Ishwar is not liable for our actions.

In Hinduism, Ishwar is the supreme mother to us all, she has set-out Laws of nature, and we are responsible for our actions.
She does not punish nor forgive, she is Love, and Loves all her children.

 

[Me Myself]

It's not just about a 'good' Hindu, it applies to all people of other faiths. To make the question reasonable, I have to ask according to whose criteria is this said non-muslim GOOD?

To himself, to his family, to his friends, and let´s say that for a couple of strangers.

If that is not good enough for Allah to not torture him eternally, then Allah is pretty much an egocentric 3 year old who has taken too many millenia to grow up and haven´t managed to do so yet.

 

[LaaIlahaIllAllah]

To himself, to his family, to his friends, and let´s say that for a couple of strangers.

If that is not good enough for Allah to not torture him eternally, then Allah is pretty much an egocentric 3 year old who has taken too many millenia to grow up and haven´t managed to do so yet.

stop crying

 

[Me Myself]

stop crying

Stop talking to yourself

 

[arthra]

In Hinduism the Law of Karma (cause and effect) is as set out by Ishwar to be Universal, Ishwar's forgiveness and punishments of only the good or bad does not arise, as the Law (Karma) is Universal not partial. As Ishwar is not partial and never distinguishes between someone who believes in it, or someone who does not, the need for forgiveness and punishments does not arise, that is handled by the Law of Karma.

In Hinduism, Ishwar is not liable for our actions.

In Hinduism, Ishwar is the supreme mother to us all, she has set-out Laws of nature, and we are responsible for our actions.
She does not punish nor forgive, she is Love, and Loves all her children.

Satya,

Unfortunately it seems to me that this thread has become a sort of Hindu vrs. "Abrahamic religion" thread...Is there a way to transcend this?

Can there be a common ground?

I would suggest that you really don't disagree with my citations of cause and effect in the Bible since as you note cause and effect has become a universal law.


I await your response...

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

Satya,

Unfortunately it seems to me that this thread has become a sort of Hindu vrs. "Abrahamic religion" thread...Is there a way to transcend this?

Can there be a common ground?

I would suggest that you really don't disagree with my citations of cause and effect in the Bible since as you note cause and effect has become a universal law.


I await your response...

Cause and effect in the bible is superseded by the partiality of the biblical God in regards to believers and non believers, where mere belief and faith removes sins, Karma on the other hand in Hinduism is the Law of Ishwar, The one who makes the Law does not break/supersede its own Law as it is injustice if it does.

That is the difference, the Abrahamic (eg Islamic) God is partial and unjust, while Ishwar governs all through Karma (Universal Justice).

Ishwar in Hinduism is inclusive of all exclusive to none.

as for the OP, i have already previously made my point in post 133.

 

[arthra]

Satya wrote:

"the Abrahamic (eg Islamic) God is partial and unjust"

I was really very sorry to read your post! I was hoping you could see that there could be some way where you could say accept a rapproachment or some reconciliation of religions..

Be well!

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

Satya wrote:

"the Abrahamic (eg Islamic) God is partial and unjust"

I was really very sorry to read your post! I was hoping you could see that there could be some way where you could say accept a rapproachment or some reconciliation of religions..

Be well!

This is my POV on Abrahmics religions, from an outsider looking in, I can see the partiality and unjustness of the said religions.

As for reconciliation,
A religion that threatens me with eternal damnation for the mere accusation of not believing in its unjust and cruel dictator that it prophesies, is irreconcilable with one that provides Love and respect for whatever my belief may be.

you be the judge.

May Ishwar protect us all from such inhumane religions.

OM TATH SATH

 

[arthra]

This is my POV on Abrahmics religions, from an outsider looking in, I can see the partiality and unjustness of the said religions.

As for reconciliation,
A religion that threatens me with eternal damnation for the mere accusation of not believing in its unjust and cruel dictator that it prophesies, is irreconcilable with one that provides Love and respect for whatever my belief may be.

you be the judge.

May Ishwar protect us all from such inhumane religions.

OM TATH SATH

Eternal damnation is not universally accepted in western religion Satya...

See:

Apocatastasis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and

All souls, all impenitent beings that have gone astray, shall, therefore, be restored sooner or later to God's friendship. The evolution will be long, incalculably long in some cases, but a time will come when God shall be all in all.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Apocatastasis

Hell is also not viewed by Baha'is as in the traditional sense it has been viewed by some

"Be ye a rich treasure to every indigent one; consider love and union as delectable paradise, and count annoyance and hostility as the torment of hell-fire. Exert with your soul; seek no rest in body; supplicate and beseech with your heart and search for divine assistance and favor, in order that ye may make this world the Paradise.."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v1, p. 37)


Hell is simply deprivation of that knowledge of
God with consequent failure to attain divine perfection, and
loss of the Eternal Favor. He (Baha'u'llah) definitely declared that these terms
have no real meaning apart from this; and that the prevalent
ideas regarding the resurrection of the material body, a material
heaven and hell, and the like, are mere figments of the
imagination. He taught that man has a life after death, and
that in the afterlife progress towards perfection is limitless.

(Dr. J.E. Esslemont, Baha'u'llah and the New Era, p. 20)


I know there's a great deal of tension today and mutual antagonism but I strongly believe that mutual acceptance can happen and be a key to peace.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

Eternal damnation is not universally accepted in western religion Satya...

See:

Apocatastasis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and

All souls, all impenitent beings that have gone astray, shall, therefore, be restored sooner or later to God's friendship. The evolution will be long, incalculably long in some cases, but a time will come when God shall be all in all.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Apocatastasis

Hell is also not viewed by Baha'is as in the traditional sense it has been viewed by some

"Be ye a rich treasure to every indigent one; consider love and union as delectable paradise, and count annoyance and hostility as the torment of hell-fire. Exert with your soul; seek no rest in body; supplicate and beseech with your heart and search for divine assistance and favor, in order that ye may make this world the Paradise.."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v1, p. 37)


Hell is simply deprivation of that knowledge of
God with consequent failure to attain divine perfection, and
loss of the Eternal Favor. He (Baha'u'llah) definitely declared that these terms
have no real meaning apart from this; and that the prevalent
ideas regarding the resurrection of the material body, a material
heaven and hell, and the like, are mere figments of the
imagination. He taught that man has a life after death, and
that in the afterlife progress towards perfection is limitless.

(Dr. J.E. Esslemont, Baha'u'llah and the New Era, p. 20)


I know there's a great deal of tension today and mutual antagonism but I strongly believe that mutual acceptance can happen and be a key to peace.

I think you should be explain this to those Abrahamics who believe in Damnation (eternal or not) for me, because of my beliefs.

You cant clap with one hand.

 

[arthra]

I think you should be explain this to those Abrahamics who believe in Damnation (eternal or not) for me, because of my beliefs.

You cant clap with one hand.

Beautiful illustration Satya...!:clap We'll work on that!