Without God(s), what is the point?!

[Sheldon]

You are just illustrating your method of rejecting truth and proving my point.

Nope, I am rejecting the unevidenced subjective superstition you're offering. As I said I don't find it awesome as you claimed, and of course you reject it as well in the vast majority of cases, just not in the one your parents and culture passed on to you.

 

[Sheldon]

The universe, not being alive, doesn't have any capability to care.

Indeed not, though many theist project agency onto it of course, I was of course using it as a metaphor, since I am an atheist.

If the universe is all there is, you have zero value.

What objective evidence can you demonstrate for anything more than the universe? People have value to those who care about them, it seems without the crutch of superstition you are claiming you lack such care or empathy? I do not of course, as I need no unevidenced belief in a deity in order to value other conscious animals, including human animals.

You are just a universe fart.

I am a species of evolved ape, same as you and everyone else, my ego is not triggered by this fact. Are you ever going to explain why you think Hitler is better than a dog? I suspect not.

 

[Sheldon]

You apparently missed the point that if you follow Jesus you will treat others better.

Missed the boast, no, just don't believe it, since there is ample evidence it is false.

 

[Sheldon]

Sheldon said: ↑
Another sweeping generalisation, that is demonstrable bs. I have seen many prominent theists defend genocide of course, William Lane Craig for example.

So can we assume @Wildswanderer that you think the biblical deity was being evil and immoral when it committed genocide, and encouraged humans to commit mass murder, including children and babies in wars of ethnic cleansing?

There is after all no ideology, or whispering indivisible friend, to encourage atheists to do anything, so if an atheist commits genocide it their personal choice, and nothing to do with atheism, after all I am an atheist and find genocide appalling, including of course the many acts depicted in the bible.

Really? You are against assisted suicide and abortion then?

Leaping to yet another ludicrous straw man is the best you can do? Do you think your biblical deities use of genocide is immoral, you don't seem to have answered at all?

Abortion and assisted suicides are not genocide, look the word up.

 

[Sheldon]

Nope... only in your mind.

Nope, in your post, still there for all to see.

 

[Sheldon]

Helping others doesn't make you special or worthy of anything.

Straw man, I never said it did.

Of course you have empathy. I never implied otherwise. You were made in Gods image. Whoosh!

The sound of my point going over your head it seems. Empathy is an evolved trait in all species that have evolved to live in societal groups. No imaginary deity is necessary or evidenced for this to be a biological fact. Ever see Meerkats take turns to watch for and warn of predators?

You really don't understand what I'm saying apparently.

On the contrary, it seems the rational ramifications of your posts are lost on you, but not me.

For example you tried to imply atheism makes genocide acceptable, yet worship a deity who is depicted as committing genocide, and have yet to explain this hypocrisy?

You claimed humans are better than dogs, then when I asked you to explain why you think Hitler was better than a dog, you palpably cannot. You could try a no true Scotsman fallacy and claim Hitler wasn't human, since you don't mind using irrational arguments?

 

[Sheldon]

Salam

I agree taking pride in God is greater pride then taking pride in other things.

You're not agreeing with me then, as I made no such claim, obviously since I am an atheist.

But I would argue, taking pride in other things, is evil, arrogance, and vain, if God exists.

That's not an argument, it is a bare claim.

If God does not, it almost does not matter what you take pride in it, it's all chaotic and almost meaningless, might as well be proud of whatever you want to be proud of.

Another string of unevidenced assertions, and I don't agree, Nazis were proud, are you saying being proud to commit genocide didn't matter if there is no deity? If so I can only disagree. Pride is just an emotion, whether it is pernicious or not depends on what one is proud of.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I am a species of evolved ape, same as you and everyone else, my ego is not triggered by this fact. Are you ever going to explain why you think Hitler is better than a dog? I suspect not.

Yes, Hitler was a human made in God's image, capable of great good or great evil and an eternal soul like everyone.
A dog has no moral compass and cannot be liable for his actions or eternally rewarded. He just goes back to the dirt.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Leaping to yet another ludicrous straw man is the best you can do? Do you think your biblical deities use of genocide is immoral, you don't seem to have answered at all?

Abortion and assisted suicides are not genocide, look the word up.

Abortion is certainly genocide.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Because atheists here have agreed that it ultimately is meaningless.

Do you understand that the injecting the word "ultimately", changes the context of the statement.
It implies there are more ways then just the "ultimate" one to infuse meaning into things.

The word "ultimately" refers to things on a cosmic scale. If tomorrow an asteroid literally evaporates the planet, as in completely reduces it into rubble, all of us will be gone. And the universe at large, or even only our galactic corner, would remain virtually unchanged. We, our entire solar system, are insignificant on a cosmic scale. In fact, our entire galaxy is insignificant on a cosmic scale. There are literally billions upon billions of them.

But none of that changes that it's not meaningless while we are here.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That is because you want to earn your way

No. It's because "justice" is about dealing with people's behavior and the consequences thereof in society.

You think there's something inherently good in you.

No.

I think behavior can be good or bad.
I don't think people themselves are good or bad.

You're projecting. It's you who think all humans are rotten. It's you who believes all humans are "guilty" of the "crime" of being human. It's part of that guilt trip that your religion imposes, in which they first tell you that you are "sick" and then it conveniently offers the supposedly "only cure".

Typical scam sales, actually.

Humility accepts that to be a falsehood.

Humility or pride has nothing to do with the fact that justice pertains to behavior and its consequences.
Humility or pride has nothing to do with what-i-can-only-call evil of rewarding gullibility and punishing rationality.

Instead, both have to do with the definitions of "justice", "morality" and "reason".

 

[KWED]

Your analogy doesn't relate to the situation. You are being offered a awesome pair of shoes but you refuse to take them.

You say they are awesome shoes but there is nothing in the box. Your shoes are imaginary.

 

[KWED]

The universe, not being alive, doesn't have any capability to care. If the universe is all there is, you have zero value. You are just a universe fart.

Correct. Things only have value because we assign it to them.
Do you think gold would have any value if there were no humans to value it?

 

[KWED]

You apparently missed the point that if you follow Jesus you will treat others better.

That is clearly not necessarily the case. Committed Christians have and still do behave terribly to others. There are atheists who behave better to people than some Christians do. If I found religion, what would I do that I don't already do?

 

[KWED]

Abortion is certainly genocide.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Correct. Things only have value because we assign it to them.
Do you think gold would have any value if there were no humans to value it?

We have value because God created us with value.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Do you understand that the injecting the word "ultimately", changes the context of the statement.
It implies there are more ways then just the "ultimate" one to infuse meaning into things.

The word "ultimately" refers to things on a cosmic scale. If tomorrow an asteroid literally evaporates the planet, as in completely reduces it into rubble, all of us will be gone. And the universe at large, or even only our galactic corner, would remain virtually unchanged. We, our entire solar system, are insignificant on a cosmic scale. In fact, our entire galaxy is insignificant on a cosmic scale. There are literally billions upon billions of them.

But none of that changes that it's not meaningless while we are here.

Of course it does. If you are just an accident vs being a loving creation that changes everything.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Of course it does.

It doesn't.
Which is why for example people are sad when a loved one dies.

If you are just an accident vs being a loving creation that changes everything.

I am a loving creation.
My loving creators are my parents.

Also, it doesn't follow.
You are what you are regardless of your origins.
The impact you currently have on your surroundings and loved ones, doesn't change if tomorrow you found out that you were grown in a lab or were the result of your mom being raped.
You might feel things, but nothing about your life objectively changes.

You seem completely unable to step back from the cosmic scale into the local scale.

 

[Wildswanderer]

You might feel things, but nothing about your life objectively changes.

Of course it does...in one case you cease to exist in the other you exist forever.

 

[KWED]

We have value because God created us with value.

That is your opinion.

So again, would gold have value without humans to assign that value to it?