Without God(s), what is the point?!

[Sheldon]

Lol, my ideology literally is self sacrifice, so what are you talking about?!

Having an ideology is not bragging about it.

Nice straw man, but you didn't just claim to have an ideology did you, you boasted that your ideology literally is self sacrifice.

 

[Sheldon]

It has become abundantly clear that because of their blind adherence to dogma, confirmation bias, DK, delusions, or even just being a bit dim, etc, some apologists on here are simply incapable of presenting cogent arguments or holding coherent positions. I am beginning to lose patience as the majority of exchanges seem to be with this type of apologist. I may have to look for a better forum.

Yes I agree, the real irony is when such poor apologetics result in the salesperson blaming the customer for not finding their "empty bag" appealing. If someone is trying to sell magic beans, then I'm naturally dubious, if they can't produce any beans, and have only bare subjective claims for the alleged magic, my scepticism is justified. Especially given the wide variety of "magic beans" on offer, and all making the same vapid claims.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Nice straw man, but you didn't just claim to have an ideology did you, you boasted that your ideology literally is self sacrifice.

You still don't get it. I didn't say I lived up to my ideal. And if I do, I have no reason to brag about it.

 

[Sheldon]

So is human morality, a cursory read of the bible can demonstrate how much morals have evolved. I don't know what "better than dogs means"? Lets try an example, perhaps you can explain how Hitler was "better" than a dog?

If Hitler accepted Jesus before the end, he is enjoying an eternity of paradise, whilst the child raised as a believing Hindu and died of cancer is suffering the torments of hell.
Gotta love their "morality".

I know, you have to marvel at the logic that labels this notion as coming from a loving deity with literally limitless knowledge and power as well. I'm not holding my breath I will ever get a cogent answer to my question either.

So @Wildswanderer, do you have any cogent explanation of why you think Hitler was "better" than a dog? This was your claim after all, that humans are somehow better than dogs.

 

[Sheldon]

You just trumpeted that you are all about self-sacrifice - although you still haven't told us what "sacrifice" you have made that is so special.

Indeed, and of course we have seen condemnations of people who happen to be gay, and of women who dare suggest they should have the right to decide what happens to their own bodies. These notions don't suggest a self sacrificing ideology to me.

Of course @Wildswanderer would also need to address the fact that many atheists and secularists are not just as capable of empathy as theists, but actively strive to help others through charitable actions and donations. Despite the oft peddled lie by many theists, that attempt to falsely claim otherwise.

 

[Sheldon]

You still don't get it. I didn't say I lived up to my ideal. And if I do, I have no reason to brag about it.

You implied precisely that, and if you had no reason you wouldn't have done it one assumes. The quote is there for everyone to see. Any good or charitable acts an atheist has done are pure altruism of course, as they have no ideology, and so are not acting on the subjective notion they are buying a ticket to paradise, but rather feel compelled to help others.

 

[Sheldon]

Wildswanderer said: ↑
But why try to prolong that meaningless life?

Why do you think it's meaningless?

Especially when many atheists have explained that their lives are not at all pointless. Some people may genuinely think their lives are meaningless without an unevidenced superstition, but why they insist on claiming others must feel this way, when they don't is puzzling. Unless of course they are not as confident of this overarching meaning they believe exists, and are denial is just another defence mechanism that they use?

 

[Sheldon]

most atheist are pro abortion and pro genocide IMO.

Another sweeping generalisation, that is demonstrable bs. I have seen many prominent theists defend genocide of course, William Lane Craig for example.

So can we assume @Wildswanderer that you think the biblical deity was being evil and immoral when it committed genocide, and encouraged humans to commit mass murder, including children and babies in wars of ethnic cleansing?

There is after all no ideology, or whispering indivisible friend, to encourage atheists to do anything, so if an atheist commits genocide it their personal choice, and nothing to do with atheism, after all I am an atheist and find genocide appalling, including of course the many acts depicted in the bible.

 

[Sheldon]

an atheist cannot point others to eternal life,

Neither can theists, and I challenge you demonstrate a shred of objective evidence to support such superstitious nonsense as humans surviving their own physical death in any meaningful way. Please don't waste my time with patients being resuscitated after a heart attack.

 

[Sheldon]

Not just for me. For all humans including you. There's no pride in needing Jesus. It's the opposite. It's giving up on self.

No it isn't, and you're back to boasting again. Also atheists are just as capable and likely to make sacrifices for others, empathy if an inherent characteristic of humans, and we are not the only great apes to have evolved with this trait, as it is necessary and well evidenced in all animals who have evolved to live in societal groups.

26 “If you come to me but will not leave your family, you cannot be my follower. You must love me more than your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters..."

That doesn't sound like giving up on the self to me, it sounds very selfish indeed, to put subjective beliefs before your own family's needs.

 

[Sheldon]

God is the pride for who has no pride. Seems like a paradox, but that is one of God's titles in Du'a Jawthan Al-Kabir (The bigger prayer of Armor).

It means other then God, they have nothing to be proud of, and God is their only pride.

Many theists, and many on here claim that the physical universe exists solely because a deity created it with humans in mind, that is a breathtakingly arrogant notion, and their archaic creation myths espouse this notion as well.

As an atheist I attach importance to my life and the lives of others, but the notion we are more important than all all other living things is preposterous. The universe doesn't care any more about humans, than any other species.

 

[Sheldon]

Your analogy doesn't relate to the situation. You are being offered a awesome pair of shoes but you refuse to take them.

We are being offered unevidenced subjective superstition. I don't find that awesome, nor do you in the vast majority of cases, just the one your parents and culture passed on to you.

 

[Wildswanderer]

We are being offered unevidenced subjective superstition. I don't find that awesome, nor do in the vast majority of cases, just the one your parents and culture passed on to you.

You are just illustrating your method of rejecting truth and proving my point.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Many theists, and many on here claim that the physical universe exists solely because a deity created it with humans in mind, that is a breathtakingly arrogant notion, and their archaic creation myths espouse this notion as well.

As an atheist I attach importance to my life and the lives of others, but the notion we are more important than all all other living things is preposterous. The universe doesn't care any more about humans, than any other species.

The universe, not being alive, doesn't have any capability to care. If the universe is all there is, you have zero value. You are just a universe fart.

 

[Wildswanderer]

No it isn't, and you're back to boasting again. Also atheists are just as capable and likely to make sacrifices for others, empathy if an inherent characteristic of humans, and we are not the only great apes to have evolved with this trait, as it is necessary and well evidenced in all animals who have evolved to live in societal groups.

26 “If you come to me but will not leave your family, you cannot be my follower. You must love me more than your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters..."

That doesn't sound like giving up on the self to me, it sounds very selfish indeed, to put subjective beliefs before your own family's needs.

You apparently missed the point that if you follow Jesus you will treat others better.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Another sweeping generalisation, that is demonstrable bs. I have seen many prominent theists defend genocide of course, William Lane Craig for example.

So can we assume @Wildswanderer that you think the biblical deity was being evil and immoral when it committed genocide, and encouraged humans to commit mass murder, including children and babies in wars of ethnic cleansing?

There is after all no ideology, or whispering indivisible friend, to encourage atheists to do anything, so if an atheist commits genocide it their personal choice, and nothing to do with atheism, after all I am an atheist and find genocide appalling, including of course the many acts depicted in the bible.

Really? You are against assisted suicide and abortion then?

 

[Wildswanderer]

You implied precisely that,

Nope... only in your mind.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Indeed, and of course we have seen condemnations of people who happen to be gay, and of women who dare suggest they should have the right to decide what happens to their own bodies. These notions don't suggest a self sacrificing ideology to me.

Of course @Wildswanderer would also need to address the fact that many atheists and secularists are not just as capable of empathy as theists, but actively strive to help others through charitable actions and donations. Despite the oft peddled lie by many theists, that attempt to falsely claim otherwise.

Helping others doesn't make you special or worthy of anything.
Of course you have empathy. I never implied otherwise. You were made in Gods image. Whoosh!
You really don't understand what I'm saying apparently.

 

[Link]

Many theists, and many on here claim that the physical universe exists solely because a deity created it with humans in mind, that is a breathtakingly arrogant notion, and their archaic creation myths espouse this notion as well.

As an atheist I attach importance to my life and the lives of others, but the notion we are more important than all all other living things is preposterous. The universe doesn't care any more about humans, than any other species.

Salam

I agree taking pride in God is greater pride then taking pride in other things.

But I would argue, taking pride in other things, is evil, arrogance, and vain, if God exists.

If God does not, it almost does not matter what you take pride in it, it's all chaotic and almost meaningless, might as well be proud of whatever you want to be proud of.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Your analogy doesn't relate to the situation. You are being offered a awesome pair of shoes but you refuse to take them.

By "awesome pair of shoes," do you mean "bill of goods"?