Without trust in God, I would have no hope

[Trailblazer]

This is a continuation of a thread I started three months ago.
If you want to know why I would have no hope without trust in God you can read the OP of that thread:

Without God there is no hope

Please note that I was careful to change the title of this thread from Without God there is no hope to Without trust in God, I would have no hope, since I am only speaking for myself. I know that lots of people have hope without God, but I have no hope without God.

More and more I see the futility of trying to make things happen by virtue of my own free will. These are things I want but they are not fated by God to happen, at least not right now. As such, so all I can do is be patient and trust that God knows what is best for me, and that will unfold over the course of time. Without that trust in God, I would have no hope.

It is easy to have hope when you are happy and settled and have nothing to hope for, but it is not so easy when your life is up in the air.

“While a man is happy he may forget his God; but when grief comes and sorrows overwhelm him, then will he remember his Father who is in Heaven, and who is able to deliver him from his humiliations.”
‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Paris Talks, pp. 50-51

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I often feel the same way. For me, though, my faith in God strictly ends at "There's a reason to what's happening" and "Things will be better (undefined)" - All of the rest I do what I can in the moment with the energy and ability I have, I rely on what I can directly work with. Prayer is just the sugar on top, so much so that I think praying makes little difference.

 

[Trailblazer]

I often feel the same way. For me, though, my faith in God strictly ends at "There's a reason to what's happening" and "Things will be better (undefined)" - All of the rest I do what I can in the moment with the energy and ability I have, I rely on what I can directly work with. Prayer is just the sugar on top, so much so that I think praying makes little difference.

It is similar for me. I do what I can in the moment hoping things will get better. I don't ask for anything in prayer since I believe God already knows what I need.

 

[Truthseeker]

It is similar for me. I do what I can in the moment hoping things will get better. I don't ask for anything in prayer since I believe God already knows what I need.

I'm reminding you of our Zoom meeting in case you lost track of time

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm reminding you of our Zoom meeting in case you lost track of time

I can see and hear you on Zoom but you cannot see and hear me, so I guess we will have to schedule the meeting for another time when your computer is working.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

It is similar for me. I do what I can in the moment hoping things will get better. I don't ask for anything in prayer since I believe God already knows what I need.

I hope the best for you, Trailblazer. Life can be rough at times.

 

[Koldo]

This is a continuation of a thread I started three months ago.
If you want to know why I would have no hope without trust in God you can read the OP of that thread:

Without God there is no hope

Please note that I was careful to change the title of this thread from Without God there is no hope to Without trust in God, I would have no hope, since I am only speaking for myself. I know that lots of people have hope without God, but I have no hope without God.

More and more I see the futility of trying to make things happen by virtue of my own free will. These are things I want but they are not fated by God to happen, at least not right now. As such, so all I can do is be patient and trust that God knows what is best for me, and that will unfold over the course of time. Without that trust in God, I would have no hope.

It is easy to have hope when you are happy and settled and have nothing to hope for, but it is not so easy when your life is up in the air.

“While a man is happy he may forget his God; but when grief comes and sorrows overwhelm him, then will he remember his Father who is in Heaven, and who is able to deliver him from his humiliations.”
‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Paris Talks, pp. 50-51

I often feel the same way. For me, though, my faith in God strictly ends at "There's a reason to what's happening" and "Things will be better (undefined)" - All of the rest I do what I can in the moment with the energy and ability I have, I rely on what I can directly work with. Prayer is just the sugar on top, so much so that I think praying makes little difference.

This is the trickiest part when it comes down to god beliefs... People get so emotionally invested into them that they can not afford to cease believing. This is not exclusive to god beliefs by the way...

In a nutshell, this is the kind of situation that makes me agree with @Augustus that rationality is not really that strong of a trait in our species (I apologize if my wording is not completely accurate).

 

[The Sum of Awe]

This is the trickiest part when it comes down to god beliefs... People get so emotionally invested into them that they can not afford to cease believing. This is not exclusive to god beliefs by the way...

In a nutshell, this is the kind of situation that makes me agree with @Augustus that rationality is not really that strong of a trait in our species (I apologize if my wording is not completely accurate).

What's the problem with having faith in God? So long as you don't become so reliant on God that you no longer put in the effort yourself?

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

Why does something exist rather than nothing?

God.

 

[Koldo]

What's the problem with having faith in God? So long as you don't become so reliant on God that you no longer put in the effort yourself?

There is no problem in having faith in gods per se. The problem is in becoming so emotionally invested into believing in something that you can't afford to cease believing in it. I can elaborate if you need but I feel it is pretty self-explanatory. As I have said, although this is a common occurence when it comes down to god beliefs, this is far from exclusive to them.

 

[Trailblazer]

There is no problem in having faith in gods per se. The problem is in becoming so emotionally invested into believing in something that you can't afford to cease believing in it.

If you are making an assumption that believers believe because they are emotionally invested in believing that is not true for all believers.
I cannot cease believing in God because I believe God exists. I believe God exists because of the evidence I see for God, not because I am emotionally invested into believing.
You cannot start believing in God because you see no evidence for God.

 

[Truthseeker]

Why does something exist rather than nothing?

God.

A lot of physicists reject that I know, but it's hard for me to see how the Universe booted itself into existence with physical laws already present. Where did the physical laws come from anyway? They get around that by saying, for example, that creation always existed. Why did creation always exist? I know their arguments pretty well. What they are saying, I know, that this is not absolute proof that God exists, and that could be the case. However, how did the academic and scientific community get to the point where absolute proof is needed in a material sense? This is the product of a materialistic mind set taught in Universities, and accepted a little too readily. They need to carefully examine the alternative.

 

[Truthseeker]

I can see and hear you on Zoom but you cannot see and hear me, so I guess we will have to schedule the meeting for another time when your computer is working.

I could see you, but not hear you. It also took a while to see you when you first came on, and your image was frozen for a little bit when I did see you. I need to test it with Sara to see if this problem is general, and then call the computer fixers.

 

[Koldo]

If you are making an assumption that believers believe because they are emotionally invested in believing that is not true for all believers.

I didn't mean to say this is true for all believers.

I cannot cease believing in God because I believe God exists. I believe God exists because of the evidence I see for God, not because I am emotionally invested into believing.
You cannot start believing in God because you see no evidence for God.

Since you can't afford to cease believing in God, you can't evaluate the evidence objectively. Your mind will push you towards belief to preserve your mental stability. There is a popular saying here in Brazil: "Hope is the last one to die.". That's because we can keep moving forward even in a life where anything we hold dear and meaningful is absent as long as we have hope.

I am not, however, saying that you would cease believing even if you could afford to do so. You could arrive at the same conclusion. But, since you can't afford to cease believing we will never know.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It is easy to have hope when you are happy and settled and have nothing to hope for, but it is not so easy when your life is up in the air.

“While a man is happy he may forget his God; but when grief comes and sorrows overwhelm him, then will he remember his Father who is in Heaven, and who is able to deliver him from his humiliations.”
‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Paris Talks, pp. 50-51

Desperate people are, well, desperate. They will sometimes grasp at straws that they wouldn't even take seriously when they're thinking clearly and not burdened by grief, panic, hunger, etc.

Religion (though certainly not just religion) takes advantage of this and preys on desperate people. The way it tries to spin this into a positive instead of the mark of an unethical scam boggles my mind.

IMO, if Abdu'l-Bahá actually said that, then he's in the same ethical realm as a quack who sells fake cancer cures.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

What's the problem with having faith in God? So long as you don't become so reliant on God that you no longer put in the effort yourself?

There is no problem with that. It is when it in effect becomes objective authority that the problem starts.

 

[Koldo]

Desperate people are, well, desperate. They will sometimes grasp at straws that they wouldn't even take seriously when they're thinking clearly and not burdened by grief, panic, hunger, etc.

Religion (though certainly not just religion) takes advantage of this and preys on desperate people. The way it tries to spin this into a positive instead of the mark of an unethical scam boggles my mind.

IMO, if Abdu'l-Bahá actually said that, then he's in the same ethical realm as a quack who sells fake cancer cures.

This instantly reminded me of:

John 20:29 NIV

"29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Blessed be you if you don't ask for solid evidence to believe.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

This instantly reminded me of:

John 20:29 NIV

"29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Blessed be you if you don't ask for solid evidence to believe.

There is no solid evidence for what objective reality is as independent of the mind. That is the reason it is called methodological naturalism.

 

[Koldo]

There is no solid evidence for what objective reality is as independent of the mind. That is the reason it is called methodological naturalism.

I think you are mixing up naturalism and realism.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I think you are mixing up naturalism and realism.

Well, there is no evidence for either.