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Wolves in sheep's clothings when the light inside is darkness.

RESOLUTION

Active Member
Lets not backslide since we have the privilege to read the history of what happens as a result.

I went past the field of a sluggard, past the vineyard of someone who has no sense; thorns had come up everywhere, the ground was covered with weeds, and the stone wall was in ruins. I applied my heart to what I observed and learned a lesson from what I saw: A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest— and poverty will come on you like a thief and scarcity like an armed man. Prov 24:30-34

King James Bible
It is vain for you to rise up early, to sit up late, to eat the bread of sorrows: for so he giveth his beloved sleep.

7 A fool trying to say something wise is like a crippled person trying to walk.

But with God nothing shall be impossible.

King James Bible
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

God provides for the needs of his people.



Most importantly we read from the word of God the Scriptures...

Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.

Brickjectivity, please come back and discuss.
 

RESOLUTION

Active Member
"If God is good and Satan Evil.
Then why isn't Satan responsible for the Evil?"

Because God created Satan and therefore created evil.

You thinking is wrong... Why do you do evil/sin? Because you choose to do evil.
Satan knew right and wrong...

22.And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:


Like Adam and Eve they were all created with free will so they can choose what they do. Just as you choose what they do.
God does not do evil he is a just God as our laws show us we like justice too. It prevents chaos.
But God created all things good. Satan and the angels who followed chose to do evil.
They knew what was right and wrong. God did not make them do wrong. They chose hence the reason they will be punished.

But mankind did not know till they ate the fruit. Hence one man brought death to all mankind. Christ brings life to all mankind.

Simple when we have the truth to see that God is not responsible for anyone who chooses to sin when they know right from wrong.
Satan lied to Eve and he is responsible for the all and evil.
 

RESOLUTION

Active Member
Problem, - there was no evil autonomous Satan until Christianity made him up.

Satan is not evil in Tanakh. He does YHVH's will.

*
Let us reason. Bring your scriptures from the OT and let us see what you think you know. Then make your arguments using each scripture with understanding and clear definition of what you believe you know.
 

RESOLUTION

Active Member
He was not such in Tanakh. That is later Christian mythology, - written AFTER Jesus' death.



Christians turned the Serpent into Satan. If Satan was meant - they would have used that name.

Also - this serpent was condemned to be a real serpent on the ground for the rest of his life. That is obviously not your Satan idea.



The serpent has usually meant knowledge. My guess is that the "Nachash/Serpent" - whom we are told was part of the first animals creation, - probably represents the KNOWLEDGE in the religions around them, - that they considered evil, or not in-line with God. The Nachash/serpent is just representing the OTHER religions, such as the Babylonian, - with the new religion represented by a "special people" Adam and Chavvah being the story "First" of that line, from God, and following God's Laws.

"Ancient Mesopotamians and Semites believed that snakes were immortal because they could infinitely shed their skin and appear forever youthful, appearing in a fresh guise every time. The Sumerians worshipped a serpent god or goddess named Ningishzida, an ancestor of Gilgamesh. Before the arrival of the Israelites, snake cults were well established in Canaan in the Bronze Age, for archaeologists have uncovered serpent cult objects in Bronze Age strata at several pre-Israelite cities in Canaan: two at Megiddo, one at Gezer, one in the sanctum sanctorum of the Area H temple at Hazor, and two at Shechem.

In the surrounding region, serpent cult objects figured in other cultures. A late Bronze Age Hittite shrine in northern Syria contained a bronze statue of a god holding a serpent in one hand and a staff in the other. In sixth-century Babylon a pair of bronze serpents flanked each of the four doorways of the temple of Esagila. At the Babylonian New Year's festival, the priest was to commission from a woodworker, a metalworker, and a goldsmith two images, one of which "shall hold in its left hand a snake of cedar, raising its right [hand] to the god Nabu". At the tell of Tepe Gawra, at least seventeen Early Bronze Age Assyrian bronze serpents were recovered. ..." Snake worship - Wikipedia



Your religion claims YHVH created everything, - thus also creating evil, - or it would not have been there in the Beginnings story, to be used

*

Where did you get the information from? Nachash also refers to 'shining one' and even fortune telling as part of divination.
What you have not done is shown ANYTHING from the bible the OT to support what would be seen as a poor attempt to bring this thread off course.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Define how Satan as a serpent tempted Eve?
TWO people agreed that it was right to eat. She thought he was OK with it and he believed she need not be on guard with it. Satan existing between Adam and Eve.
How and why would the disciples say:-
King James Bible
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
I already told you. You choose not to listen.

We know from Job that Satan is the tempter and we know that God has the final say over life and death.
Jesus never gave into temptation he used the word of God and the truth against Satan.
Job did not sin by blaming God he knew that though God allowed these things he was not the sender
nor was he the author of the things Satan did. We see in Christ God put an end to those thing the accuser fell
when it came to Christ believers. God and the Angels existed all intelligent and powerful in their own dominion and power.
So?

We have to acknowledge that Satan is a real entity and person but not the same as God.
I don't think so! If Satan is a real entity and what is written about him is true; that he is god of this system, that makes at least TWO gods. I shall imitate Jesus who is a Jew and who trusts in just ONE GOD. OK?

Satan is real, but satan is not a person. A person is autonomous. Satan isn't autonomous.

Imagine the angels gathered around God's throne. Then imagine that plenty of them wondered if a man (Job) could really be good. That wonder is Satan. Satan existing between God and the angels.

Imagine Jesus in the wilderness. He knows what will become of him. He wonders about what the people expect him to do. His imagination of the things to come is satan. Satan existing between Jesus and Humanity.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
That satan is called "prince" and the "god of this system" does not follow that it is a person.

The power to influence behavior for bad is satan. It is the opposite of the power to influence behavior for good.
 

RESOLUTION

Active Member
TWO people agreed that it was right to eat. She thought he was OK with it and he believed she need not be on guard with it. Satan existing between Adam and Eve.
I already told you. You choose not to listen.

So?

I don't think so! If Satan is a real entity and what is written about him is true; that he is god of this system, that makes at least TWO gods. I shall imitate Jesus who is a Jew and who trusts in just ONE GOD. OK?

Satan is real, but satan is not a person. A person is autonomous. Satan isn't autonomous.

Imagine the angels gathered around God's throne. Then imagine that plenty of them wondered if a man (Job) could really be good. That wonder is Satan. Satan existing between God and the angels.

Imagine Jesus in the wilderness. He knows what will become of him. He wonders about what the people expect him to do. His imagination of the things to come is satan. Satan existing between Jesus and Humanity.

More cryptic than mystic. You want to play the mystic well at least do it with actual knowledge.

You really need to read what you write. No wonder no one will take you seriously. Humouring you is not good.

Angels do not need to wonder. Angels are not in all places at all times. Only God is omnipresent. Sheesh! Do you really know anything about the bible?
Should you be discussing things you don't have any knowledge about?

Those with truth do not require imagination. As the book of Luke says about God.

King James Version
He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.

With respect, this is not about truth for you it is merely about trying to make yourself look right.
For me, it is about learning and sharing the actual truth God teaches us. We do not have that truth of ourselves, it is given us by God.
I am learning fast about 'ear-ticklers' and to what lengths people will go to fit Gods words into their own beliefs rather than let the word
of God become their truth and belief.

We have to disagree because the Word of God does not support your arguments they are based on human nature and knowledge.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So, @RESOLUTION you know satan is a person. Is it because you have met him? I mean, is he male?
Can you show us where it is written, the person of satan?
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Brickjectivity, please come back and discuss.
In this video at minute 120-121 (edited had the minutes wrong) Jordan Peterson identifies one of the primary roles of religion which is to teach us to focus on eliminating our personal weaknesses. As he is someone who studies and teaches about narratives and ideologies it is interesting to hear his personal testimony about what he has observed. This role is another reason not to backslide. I think when we backslide one of the first things that happens is we let our religion become judgmental and let it be about other people instead of about transforming ourselves. We misrepresent this to others as genuine religion through our own personal corruption.

"Sow righteousness for yourselves, reap the fruit of unfailing love, and break up your unplowed ground; for it is time to seek the LORD, until he comes and showers his righteousness on you." (Hosea 10:12) The focus here is upon personal transformation. To pay attention to anyone who is pointing fingers (as a prophet) you should scrutinize them. Do they have good traits? Can you see their life or is it secretive and only visible through stories about them. Can you drop in on this person. Have they shown excellence in any way.

Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?" (Matthew 7:15-16)

So the first thing about wolves in sheeps clothing is they point fingers, and the second thing is they do not want their personal lives observed.

"The wicked flee though no one pursues, but the righteous are as bold as a lion." (Proverbs 28:1)
 
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SuzyQ

New Member
When we debate religions and look through history at the evil done using religion as a screen.
Do we as human beings really recognise the evil taking place before us?
Discuss the religions which mankind have hijacked to use as a defense for doing evil and yet the religion does not teach such evil.

Then look at Satan and how he might be behind all these things in order to destroy as many human lives as
possible.

We expect an anti-Christ we expect many things to happen and all evil, destructive and devastating to many.
God has warned that people perish for lack of knowledge and that is a lack of love of truth.

I understand this is a heavy topic intellectually and religiously. Sometimes we have to test our trains of thought and where we are going regarding those thoughts about religion, mankind and the future. Especially when it comes to God, Man and Satan in religious teachings.


So discuss the history and where you can see these things having happened.

What part are humans playing without even realising it?

Wolves in sheep's clothing: So much hate was put in the Xistian bible and writings about the Jews which caused so much death and punishment. This religion Xristianity is based on hate and evil. Even now Xristians hate Israel, the Jews vandilize cemetaries and boycots, internet trolls...and also Muslims try to kill us and use knives. Such evil religions are worthless.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Wolves in sheep's clothing: So much hate was put in the Xistian bible and writings about the Jews which caused so much death and punishment. This religion Xristianity is based on hate and evil. Even now Xristians hate Israel, the Jews vandilize cemetaries and boycots, internet trolls...and also Muslims try to kill us and use knives. Such evil religions are worthless.
I do not deny there are some difficult passages in the Bible, however it is generally (but not always) sold as one piece including the Tanach translated to English so that there is no excuse for abusing Jews. Keep in mind the Tanach is full of criticism of Jews yet you don't consider that to be full of hate for Jews. No, it is polemic; and so do not unequally apply your standard. Christians do have a lot to answer for and should not be accusing Jews or participating in any attacks against them, but its not due to the NT. That is misguided, and in fact the NT is important for re-establishing normalcy. Not only that but its an important historical and cultural connector which helps explain how society has gotten from A to B.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Christians do have a lot to answer for and should not be accusing Jews or participating in any attacks against them, but its not due to the NT.

Not do to the NT 'properly' understood. Unfortunately, still today the NT is grounds for some to justify their anti Semitic mind set.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
But we are talking about those who try to justify their actions by way and means of a faith????

I imagine a lot of folks you may see as evil now thought they were doing God's work, destroying evil.

Probably why Nietzsche said -
“He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster . . . when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you”
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Impossible, unless you know of one religion that makes all the calls? So as you don't why make such an uninformed statement.
There is only one God who makes all the calls. Try reading the bible you might actually learn something. :)
Pay attention, I said you act as if there was. Not me, I know better.

What makes you think I haven't read that fiction book? Stop assuming things.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
When we debate religions and look through history at the evil done using religion as a screen.
Do we as human beings really recognise the evil taking place before us?
Discuss the religions which mankind have hijacked to use as a defense for doing evil and yet the religion does not teach such evil.

Then look at Satan and how he might be behind all these things in order to destroy as many human lives as
possible.

We expect an anti-Christ we expect many things to happen and all evil, destructive and devastating to many.
God has warned that people perish for lack of knowledge and that is a lack of love of truth.

I understand this is a heavy topic intellectually and religiously. Sometimes we have to test our trains of thought and where we are going regarding those thoughts about religion, mankind and the future. Especially when it comes to God, Man and Satan in religious teachings.


So discuss the history and where you can see these things having happened.

What part are humans playing without even realising it?

Many religions do teach some evil things. For instance the Bible teaches who to buy your slaves from, and how much you are allowed to beat them ( it is okay as long as they take longer than two or three days to die, because they "are your property". It is not just that a religion might be used as a "screen" for doing evil, it's that evil can actually be justified by them.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Not do to the NT 'properly' understood. Unfortunately, still today the NT is grounds for some to justify their anti Semitic mind set.
There will always be antisemitism as long as Jews continue to annoy people by: Their separate holidays, their dietary concerns, their outspoken criticism against bad leadership, their insistence upon safety rules and legal precedents and so forth. Whoever set them on this track has guaranteed they will face opposition. Thus there are pograms and slanders against them. Thus any book that references them is used viciously by their opponents. You either sit down and shut up and get out of the way, or you get into trouble with the passing fads of government.
 
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