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Woman, 2 children die crossing Rio Grande as Border Patrol says Texas troops prevented them from intervening

F

F1fan

Veteran Member
Revoltingest said:
Oh, well that makes it true.
Both sides play word games to mislead us.
Click to expand...
Kinda like how getting parking tickets makes us all criminals just like murderers and thieves. Nuance is important.

Revoltingest said:
A suggestion...
Check the change in total federal tax revenue
before & after the changes. It's illuminating.
Click to expand...
It’s been reported that revenue increased but that was due to increased GPD. It did not meet Trump’s expectations of a continual 4% growth which would have offset the loss in revenue. The economy was good but not what we have seen in recent years after Trump was fired. Trump and the GOP congress didn’t cut spending. And they even added more debt, even if the efforts to offset the pandemic. His mismanagement ended up costing us more, in debt and deaths.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
F1fan said:
Kinda like how getting parking tickets makes us all criminals just like murderers and thieves. Nuance is important.


It’s been reported that revenue increased but that was due to increased GPD. It did not meet Trump’s expectations of a continual 4% growth which would have offset the loss in revenue. The economy was good but not what we have seen in recent years after Trump was fired. Trump and the GOP congress didn’t cut spending. And they even added more debt, even if the efforts to offset the pandemic. His mismanagement ended up costing us more, in debt and deaths.
Click to expand...
Trump scrooed the pooch with paying people to
not work during Covid. But the issue is that no
one claiming "tax cuts" has ever shown that
the net effect of increases & decreases match
that label. The increase in revenue is indeed
an increase in taxation though.
BTW, I approve of eliminating most of the SALT
deduction. It strikes me as poor public policity
to subsidize home ownership vs renting, and
especially so for spendy mansions.
Ref....

State and local tax deduction - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Clizby Wampuscat said:
I am saying they did not care to find out the facts. Just like the horse whip allegations, and the Smollett case and the russian dossier etc etc etc.
Click to expand...
But they did. The news has to publish almost immediately to be news these days. That can lead to early errors in reporting. But errors are not lies. And they kept digging until they found out exactly what happened and reported that. One has to be wary of initial reports of events like that. You will notice that many of those who you would identify as being on "the left" expressed caution about how it is very disturbing, if true. Far too often on similar stories of the left doing something wrong I have seen Trump supporters take the initial reports as if they are "Bible truth" because they portray their foes in a bad light.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Stevicus said:
I don't think we've seen much action from Congress on the overall issue for a very long time now, which is the main barrier to any kind of real immigration reform. This isn't an issue that just cropped up yesterday. This has been going on for decades and decades - and the roots of the problem go back even further. They haven't done anything to really resolve the problem one way or another, because too many people have come to thrive on a certain status quo of having a large "underground" workforce which can work under the table and not be subject to wage and hour laws or OSHA requirements. Even those who are legally allowed to work are willing to work for less and do jobs that American workers tend to refuse.

The other side of the issue has to do with the problems within the countries of Latin America where these people are coming from. We've had some history in that region, so we do bear some responsibility here. If the standard of living could be improved in some of these impoverished countries, then there would be less of an impetus for people to cross deserts and harsh terrain to get here.
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No, no, no, no. We are just supposed to go over there and try and take over. Protect those US industries that are there. Get our money, And then leave them to their own means. Not our fault at all for using our CIA and sometimes military sources to do this. MAGA!!!!
 
Shaul

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
metis said:
Everyone has the right to seek asylum—no matter who they are, where they come from, or when they choose to flee. The right to seek asylum, along with other rights of refugees, is outlined in the 1951 Refugee Convention and its 1967 Protocol which has protected the rights of asylum seekers and refugees since the end of WWII... -- News
Click to expand...
The putative "right" in this is vague to the point of disappearance and demonstrably unenforceable. It is just flowery language and has no basis in reality. There are example countries that completely violate this supposed "right" with impunity.
 
Shaul

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Father Heathen said:
Did he? Well, I'll help educate @Shaul by posting the links myself:

www.law.cornell.edu

8 U.S. Code § 1158 - Asylum

www.law.cornell.edu www.law.cornell.edu
Click to expand...
This USC explains quite clearly that there is no right to asylum. To wit, "
(7)No private right of action
Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to create any substantive or procedural right or benefit that is legally enforceable by any party against the United States or its agencies or officers or any other person."
 
Guitar's Cry

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
Shaul said:
Since the U.S. already allows more immigrants than any other country it is more reasonable to consider tightening the requirements, not loosening them. Furthermore until the number of illegal immigrants is under control such an argument is of lesser importance.

The more effective way to reduce their endangerment is to encourage them to stay in their countries of origin and apply for immigration there. So if that is your goal you should support them doing that.
Click to expand...

@Subduction Zone makes a good argument against my idea post here:

Subduction Zone said:
One reason that many refugees go the illegal route is because as a refugee once you are across the border you are legal, if you turn yourself in. Now if one went underground and got a job and waited for months that would probably not work. But if one is actually a refugee traveling openly and legally may not be an option.
Click to expand...

I can't confirm or deny it, but it makes sense. I still stand by my idea that we should err on the side of having a more open border, especially if we insist on either politically or economically interfering with other countries.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Shaul said:
This USC explains quite clearly that there is no right to asylum. To wit, "
(7)No private right of action
Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to create any substantive or procedural right or benefit that is legally enforceable by any party against the United States or its agencies or officers or any other person."
Click to expand...
That refers to that particular subsection. It starts with:

"(d)Asylum procedure"

So if someone seeking asylum is denied asylum for any reason they cannot sue. It does not negate the fact that aliens still have the right to apply for asylum. The claim was not that "asylum is automatically granted". What is automatically granted is the right to have a hearing to determine if someone is truly a refugee or not. If they lose, they lose, but until they have that hearing they are here legally.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Shaul said:
The putative "right" in this is vague to the point of disappearance and demonstrably unenforceable. It is just flowery language and has no basis in reality. There are example countries that completely violate this supposed "right" with impunity.
Click to expand...
Yes, some countries break the laws that they agreed to follow. Right now the UN does not have the authority to enforce those laws. You probably would not want to live in any of the countries that do go back on their word in that fashion.

EDIT: File this one under Tu Quoque Fallacy.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Shaul said:
The putative "right" in this is vague to the point of disappearance and demonstrably unenforceable. It is just flowery language and has no basis in reality. There are example countries that completely violate this supposed "right" with impunity.
Click to expand...

The fact you simply cannot accept the reality of international and national law, nor can you admit you were wrong.

"Honesty is the best policy."-- you should have learned that as a kid.
 
Clizby Wampuscat

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone said:
But they did. The news has to publish almost immediately to be news these days. That can lead to early errors in reporting. But errors are not lies. And they kept digging until they found out exactly what happened and reported that. One has to be wary of initial reports of events like that. You will notice that many of those who you would identify as being on "the left" expressed caution about how it is very disturbing, if true. Far too often on similar stories of the left doing something wrong I have seen Trump supporters take the initial reports as if they are "Bible truth" because they portray their foes in a bad light.
Click to expand...
So you agree they did not have the facts before they went with the story just like so many others. Funny how they never get the facts correct when it makes conservatives look bad.
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
F1fan said:
Conservatives make themselves look bad when they become MAGA. Want respect? Earn it.
Click to expand...
Can't be any worse than Democrats openly calling themselves marxists/socialists where "socialism wins".

Some people lose by their actions and never earned any in the first place.
 
SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Clizby Wampuscat said:
So you agree they did not have the facts before they went with the story just like so many others. Funny how they never get the facts correct when it makes conservatives look bad.
Click to expand...
Did they correct the facts as they went along, or did they just stick to the original story until the bitter end?
If they did the latter, you may have a point. Otherwise, not so much.
 
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