Women Liberating Themselves from Liberation

[Humanistheart]

That's just it.

No one can show that feminism has forced it's will on anyone.

Of course not. Feminism cannot force anything any more than say athiesm or christianity can, these are groups organized by individuals with no inherent life of it's own. The life blood of these causes, in this case the proponents of feminism, feminists, however can and do force their will on the country.

 

[gnomon]

Of course not. Feminism cannot force anything any more than say athiesm or christianity can, these are groups organized by individuals with no inherent life of it's own. The life blood of these causes, in this case the proponents of feminism, feminists, however can and do force their will on the country.

True, I should have stated feminist movements. I just wish those who find that the True Woman movement has some merit could point out exactly what it is about suffrage and the women's movements addressing voting rights, domestic violence, sexual harassment, female genital mutilation, etc. has taken away from women in U.S. culture. Instead all that is offered up are a few vague notions of nothing.

 

[gnomon]

Anyway, here's an update from the website:
True Woman | What's the big deal with traditional marriage?

WARNING: Today's post will require some heavy duty thinking on your part, so I encourage you to pull out your Bible for this one!

One of the more common and obvious pair of opposites is that of man and woman. Two genders created anatomically compatible—but unique! God's creation of one man for one woman is often cited as the model for traditional marriage. With the rise in acceptance of same sex relationships, the traditional model is no longer assumed. Often, Christians refer to Romans 1:26–28 as the proof text to settle the question of God's view on this issue.

I want us to consider perhaps a broader and deeper significance for having male and female genders and why God limits the marital relationship to a monogamous heterosexual union by looking at the Romans passage.

Time for a lesson in critical thinking.

When someone posits an absolute and we can empirically show data that refutes the absolute then we can conclude the absolute was false.

She revisits the next day:
True Woman | What's the big deal with traditional marriage? Part 2
Yet another rambling statement of homosexual activity being an affront to the ultimate transcendental nature of God.

Is there any more doubt that this movement is just another homophobic load of crap.

 

[Kathryn]

I don't know much about this particular group, and I won't be attending any of their events. What I DO know is that in movements, the pendulum often swings in two different directions too extremely - and it can take awhile for events to become more moderate and calm.

For many years, women were considered second class citizens. I never want to return to those days. But I believe the feminist movement, which was needed at the time, swung so far in the opposite direction that some correction and balance is needed. In fact, I do see signs of that. I know my daughters are in their twenties and more and more of their friends are orchestrating their lives to be able to stay home while their children are young - which to me is the most important gift a mother can give a child - their undivided attention while they are in their most formative years.

I see signs that contemporary feminism is being more supportive of women who assume more traditional roles AS ONE OF THEIR OPTIONS and giving that option to respect it should be afforded.

THAT to me is the crux of the matter - that women's options are not limited by prejudice and discrimination. THAT is when we can say we are where we need to be on this matter.

 

[Willamena]

Of course not. Feminism cannot force anything any more than say athiesm or christianity can, these are groups organized by individuals with no inherent life of it's own. The life blood of these causes, in this case the proponents of feminism, feminists, however can and do force their will on the country.

It's not about forcing anything. These women are comfortable in their traditionally defined gender roles. They are, rather, on the contrary, standing up to say that their traditionally defined gender roles are okay.

I see mountains being made of molehills in this thread.

 

[Alceste]

Lots of feminist mums and dads stay home with their kids, and lots of working feminists arrange their schedule so that either the mum or the dad is the caregiver almost all the time, by cutting down to part time, working from home and juggling their hours. Other working parents have daycares right in the building they work in so they can pop down any time and see their kids, who are quite frankly having a lot more fun with a big gang of other kids than they would have had at home.

Feminism hasn't forced anyone out of the home. Nobody I know assumes they're supposed to put their career ahead of spending time with their kids. If this is "too far the other way", then whatever you consider to be a happy medium is probably far too conservative for my taste.

 

[Autodidact]

I don't know much about this particular group, and I won't be attending any of their events. What I DO know is that in movements, the pendulum often swings in two different directions too extremely - and it can take awhile for events to become more moderate and calm.

For many years, women were considered second class citizens. I never want to return to those days. But I believe the feminist movement, which was needed at the time, swung so far in the opposite direction that some correction and balance is needed. In fact, I do see signs of that. I know my daughters are in their twenties and more and more of their friends are orchestrating their lives to be able to stay home while their children are young - which to me is the most important gift a mother can give a child - their undivided attention while they are in their most formative years.

I see signs that contemporary feminism is being more supportive of women who assume more traditional roles AS ONE OF THEIR OPTIONS and giving that option to respect it should be afforded.

THAT to me is the crux of the matter - that women's options are not limited by prejudice and discrimination. THAT is when we can say we are where we need to be on this matter.

I guess I'm a pretty radical feminist and I agree that it's best for young children to be cared for at home by their parents if possible, and that it's a good idea for society to facilitate this. This doesn't mean or have to mean traditional sex roles, although that's one way to do it. It can mean a lot of different arrangements. I know as a mother it felt wrong and extremely not ideal to take my toddler to a child care provider. OTOH she turned out great so who knows?

 

[Duck]

Anyway, here's an update from the website:
True Woman | What's the big deal with traditional marriage?



Time for a lesson in critical thinking.

When someone posits an absolute and we can empirically show data that refutes the absolute then we can conclude the absolute was false.

She revisits the next day:
True Woman | What's the big deal with traditional marriage? Part 2
Yet another rambling statement of homosexual activity being an affront to the ultimate transcendental nature of God.

Is there any more doubt that this movement is just another homophobic load of crap.

I have noticed this trend as well. If an organization proclaims it is for "traditional values" and contains or uses any references to god or the bible, there are better than even chances that the organization will ultimately be homophobic in nature.

 

[Autodidact]

Even their name bugs me. Like, if I don't share their views, I'm not a True Woman? Screw that!

 

[Humanistheart]

It's not about forcing anything. These women are comfortable in their traditionally defined gender roles. They are, rather, on the contrary, standing up to say that their traditionally defined gender roles are okay.
.

Standing up to who? Oh that's right, feminism, a movement that's become quite over-bearing and sexist.

 

[Willamena]

Standing up to who? Oh that's right, feminism, a movement that's become quite over-bearing and sexist.

Don't be silly; feminism isn't that, especially to them. It's the self-defined roles that feminism defines and encourages that they organize against (though it's arguably only loosely an organization or a movement).

 

[Humanistheart]

Don't be silly; feminism isn't that.

Today, feminism = sexism/hypocrasy. At least in the US.

 

[Willamena]

Today, feminism = sexism/hypocrasy. At least in the US.

Ah . . . that's probably the "over-swing in the opposite direction" that Kathryn mentioned.

Ideally, it is not. Ideally, it is an expression of (the right of) personal freedom that empowers women to define their own roles. The women of the OP feel very strongly that their religion defines their roles --not themselves, not feministically.

 

[Nanda]

Today, feminism = sexism/hypocrasy. At least in the US.

Examples, please. *pulls up a chair and gets comfortable*

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Ideally, it is not. Ideally, it is an expression of (the right of) personal freedom that empowers women to define their own roles. The women of the OP feel very strongly that their religion defines their roles --not themselves, not feministically.

Yeah, it sucks for them that feminism is all about limiting women's freedom to make their own choices and define themselves.

 

[Humanistheart]

Examples, please. *pulls up a chair and gets comfortable*

College. In the united states 64 percent of college students are female. Several decades ago when the majority of college graduates were men it was decided that the united states needed new programs to put women into college, one of them was title 9. So, when women represented the minority in college there was a big push to change this toward 'equlity', yet now that men are the minority in college where's the big push to get more men in? If the feminist movement represented equality in this country feminists would have to push for equality for all people when they are on the down end of the spectrum, but they don't. Feminists only push for equality when they're the ones to benifit from it.

 

[Nanda]

Feminists only push for equality when they're the ones to benifit from it.

Really? What was the last feminist publication you read? Because, you see, third wave feminism (that would be the feminists of today, not 40 years ago) generally believe that what is good from humanity in general benefits all of us, and do in fact try to support causes other than those that only directly effect women.

 

[Willamena]

Yeah, it sucks for them that feminism is all about limiting women's freedom to make their own choices and define themselves.

Yup --yours is precisely the attitude that causes them to feel they have to take action, like the petition and conference, and make their view known. They can talk their lips off, but they are simply not being heard.

 

[Humanistheart]

Really? What was the last feminist publication you read? Because, you see, second wave feminism (that would be the feminists of today, not 40 years ago) generally believe that what is good from humanity in general benefits all of us, and do in fact try to support causes other than those that only directly effect women.

Try? Obviously not very successfully, as my previous example illistraights. I note you did not care to provide an example yourself. Also, we're on the 3rd wave now, not the 2nd.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Yup --yours is precisely the attitude that causes them to feel they have to take action, like the petition and conference, and make their view known. They can talk their lips off, but they are simply not being heard.

Well, why don't they just go back and finish up the vacuming before making dinner? Nobody needs to hear you to do that.