Women Liberating Themselves from Liberation

[Heneni]

My reasons aren't religious, Heneni, I'm an atheist. What is your non-religious reason for asserting the contrary?

Yeh i know you are an atheist....


Nope, dont have any non-religious reason to submit to a hubby.

Heneni

 

[Sunstone]

I see it as something that's obvious. How does one go about convincing another that the sky is blue? One simply tells the other to look at the sky. Similarly, if you wish to see the differences between men and women, all you have to do is observe how they each behave.

You can pretend all you want that merely saying "it's obvious" is the same thing as substantiating your claims, but I'm way too old to buy such BS. Come back when you can put your money where your mouth is. But until then, quit trying to pass yourself off as holding a reasonable and substantiated position on the differences between men and women.

 

[TheKnight]

You can pretend all you want that merely saying "it's obvious" is the same thing as substantiating your claims, but I'm way too old to buy such BS. Come back when you can put your money where your mouth is. But until then, quit trying to pass yourself off as holding a reasonable and substantiated position on the differences between men and women. Doing that should be beneath the dignity of even a child.

I have no way of proving that which is obvious. If you wish to remain willfully blind to the fact that women and men are fundamentally different in almost every way then there is nothing I can do to stop you from that.

 

[Sunstone]

I have no way of proving that which is obvious. If you wish to remain willfully blind to the fact that women and men are fundamentally different in almost every way then there is nothing I can do to stop you from that.

Are you so perverse that you are still arguing a point even you yourself have been forced to admit cannot be demonstrated to be true?

 

[gnomon]

Who have they ignored?

The Zerg.

 

[gnomon]

But there are two models at play on them as women --one that society at large supports and one that they support --and they've chosen their model at the expense of what society thinks.

Regardless that the motivators behind the movement have fixed ideas about those outside their group, I began this thread to look at that particular idea --that society upholds a "freedom" for these women that robs these women of a freedom.

That's an astounding idea. And probably far from unique.

Sounds familiar.

However, what freedom are they being denied? I think the thread needs to move in that direction as it's own idea.

As to their model, I covered that with their website and their view towards homosexuality. Thousands of women. Imagine how many children they have. What is the probability of those children not fitting the norm of their view of women and men created to God's design. Relatively good. I find it to be a horrible model to teach to these children. Not different from the worldview of racists.

However, as to whether or not the feminist movement in the West has inhibited the freedom of women would probably make an interesting discussion in it's own thread separated from this group.

 

[TheKnight]

The Zerg.

What?

 

[Smoke]

Such unseemly behavior!

True Christian women should be home rubbing their husbands' feet, not out gallivanting around to political rallies.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Hmmm, submissive women........



How boring.

 

[MissAlice]

Such unseemly behavior!

True Christian women should be home rubbing their husbands' feet, not out gallivanting around to political rallies.

LOL, you get frubals for that because god told me to.:yes:

 

[Alceste]

Who have they ignored?

Lets see here.

Gay men
Gay women
Bisexual people
Transgendered people
Hermaphrodites
Celibates
People of other religions
Strong women
Weak men
Independent women
Indecisive men
Men who like to be spanked
Women who like to spank
Matriarchal cultures
Egalitarian cultures
Secular cultures
Men who like strong, smart women
Women who like compliant men

Tell me when to stop...

I see it as something that's obvious. How does one go about convincing another that the sky is blue? One simply tells the other to look at the sky. Similarly, if you wish to see the differences between men and women, all you have to do is observe how they each behave.

How does one convince a person there are colors other than blue and pink?

I have a feeling you're in for a rude awakening once you start dating.

 

[Alceste]

Are you so perverse that you are still arguing a point even you yourself have been forced to admit cannot be demonstrated to be true?

C'mon Sunstone, girls have boobies and boys have wee-wees. Everybody knows that.

 

[McBell]

Chicago, USA, October, 2008 at the True Woman Conference ’08, 6,000 women gathered to protest the kind of liberation forced on them by Western society.

Women's 'Liberation' Through Submission: An Evangelical Anti-Feminism Is Born | Reproductive Justice and Gender | AlterNet



Thoughts?

to each their own.

 

[McBell]

Such unseemly behavior!

True Christian women should be home rubbing their husbands' feet, not out gallivanting around to political rallies.

I cannot help but wonder who is taking care of the children whilst they are out gallivanting around....

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I cannot help but wonder who is taking care of the children whilst they are out gallivanting around....

That's what daycare is for.

 

[McBell]

That's what daycare is for.

good point.
Need to do what they can to stimulate the economy...

 

[TheKnight]

Lets see here.

Gay men
Gay women
Bisexual people
Transgendered people
Hermaphrodites
Celibates
People of other religions
Strong women
Weak men
Independent women
Indecisive men
Men who like to be spanked
Women who like to spank
Matriarchal cultures
Egalitarian cultures
Secular cultures
Men who like strong, smart women
Women who like compliant men

Tell me when to stop...

Ok. Are they supposed to include those people? Their movement is about their views of how women behave. It's not a "rights" movement or anything of the sort. Their goal is to influence Christian women to behave in way that they feel is Biblical for women. I don't understand how it is that they're ignoring people. Those other people have nothing to do with their movement.

 

[gnomon]

Ok. Are they supposed to include those people? Their movement is about their views of how women behave. It's not a "rights" movement or anything of the sort. Their goal is to influence Christian women to behave in way that they feel is Biblical for women. I don't understand how it is that they're ignoring people. Those other people have nothing to do with their movement.

You don't believe that out of the 9,000 "possible" women who have signed up for this one movement that children are not involved.

Last I checked homosexuals, transsexuals, intersex, bisexual, etc. start life as children. There's a very good possibility that some of those women will have children who fall into the above categories. Actually, Susan Hunt, one of the women of this movement who has written a book on the subject actually talks about another woman in their community who had a son dying from AIDS. Much commentary about their compassion over a dying human being.

Not one word of accepting that person as a homosexual.

Actually, there site is filled with rather dismal views of homosexuals.

These women will have children. Many of them are probably educators as well.

I prefer that they not teach their narrow minded model of the universe to them. It took humanity long enough to gain some enlightenment.

edit: And don't forget the Zerg. They need hugs.

edit again: It also leaves out the possibility of lesbian and transsexual Christians from signing and joining up.

Hug a zergling.

 

[Alceste]

Ok. Are they supposed to include those people? Their movement is about their views of how women behave. It's not a "rights" movement or anything of the sort. Their goal is to influence Christian women to behave in way that they feel is Biblical for women. I don't understand how it is that they're ignoring people. Those other people have nothing to do with their movement.

You don't think there are any Christian men who like to be spanked? No independent Christian women?

I beg to differ. I've met both.

Personally, I would be happy if they kept their opinions to themselves and stayed at home. If they think women are supposed to be meek, submissive peacemakers, why are they being loud, aggressive and confrontational?

IMO, it's not about how they think they should behave. It's about how they want me to behave. If it was about their own behavior, they'd just be doing it, not telling me what I'm supposed to do.

 

[TheKnight]

You don't believe that out of the 9,000 "possible" women who have signed up for this one movement that children are not involved.

Last I checked homosexuals, transsexuals, intersex, bisexual, etc. start life as children. There's a very good possibility that some of those women will have children who fall into the above categories. Actually, Susan Hunt, one of the women of this movement who has written a book on the subject actually talks about another woman in their community who had a son dying from AIDS. Much commentary about their compassion over a dying human being.

Not one word of accepting that person as a homosexual.

Actually, there site is filled with rather dismal views of homosexuals.

These women will have children. Many of them are probably educators as well.

I prefer that they not teach their narrow minded model of the universe to them. It took humanity long enough to gain some enlightenment.

edit: And don't forget the Zerg. They need hugs.

edit again: It also leaves out the possibility of lesbian and transsexual Christians from signing and joining up.

Hug a zergling.

It doesn't leave out the possibility.

What you're mentioning has nothing to do with their movement. They are women who are seeking to influence Chrsitian women to live what they see as a Biblical lifestyle. There's no reason for them to say "We accept homosexuals". It would be out of place. For one, omni-sexuals are accepted by God. For two, the purpose of the movement is not to go with the current social views of women and their role, but of a more Biblical view.

They're not ignoring anyone, they're simply stating their view on a particular matter. To say that their veiw should include something which is antithetical to their view and to claim that they're intentionally ignoring those people is ridiculous.

You don't think there are any Christian men who like to be spanked? No independent Christian women?

I beg to differ. I've met both.

Personally, I would be happy if they kept their opinions to themselves and stayed at home. If they think women are supposed to be meek, submissive peacemakers, why are they being loud, aggressive and confrontational?

IMO, it's not about how they think they should behave. It's about how they want me to behave. If it was about their own behavior, they'd just be doing it, not telling me what I'm supposed to do.

The goal is to get Christian women to behave as the Bible states. The new testament states clearly that women should be submissive to their husbands. Their movement doesn't mention secular women, or the behavior of secular women. Their manifesto says:

As Christian women, we desire to honor God by living counter-cultural lives that reflect the beauty of Christ and His gospel to our world.

They're not trying to force their opinions on anyone, they're simply utilizing their right to freedom of speech to convince other Christian women to live in a Biblical manner. Rather then one that conforms to secular culture which has become/is becoming more and more non-Biblical. If you're not a Christian woman, then they're not thinking about you.