Women Liberating Themselves from Liberation

[Willamena]

Chicago, USA, October, 2008 at the True Woman Conference ’08, 6,000 women gathered to protest the kind of liberation forced on them by Western society.

Women's 'Liberation' Through Submission: An Evangelical Anti-Feminism Is Born | Reproductive Justice and Gender | AlterNet

The terms of the manifesto (downloadable here) serve as a good shorthand description of the aims and principles of the submission and patriarchy movement. Signers affirm their belief that women and men were designed to reflect God in “complementary and distinct ways”; that today’s culture has gone astray distinctly because of its egalitarian approach to gender (and that it’s “experiencing the consequences of abandoning God’s design for men and women”); and that while men and women are equally valuable in the eyes of God, here on earth they are relegated to separate spheres at home and in the church.
The “countercultural” attitudes that signers support include the idea that women are called to affirm and encourage godly masculinity, and honor the God-ordained male headship of their husbands and pastors; that wifely submission to male leadership in the home and church reflects Christ’s submission to God, His Father; that “selfish insistence on personal rights is contrary to the spirit of Christ”; and, in a pronatalist turn of phrase that recalls the rhetoric of the Quiverfull conviction, their willingness to “receive children as a blessing from the Lord.”
Finally, in a reference to the importance of woman-to-woman mentoring within the conservative church, they affirmed that “mature Christian women” are obliged to disciple the next generation of Christian wives, training them in matters of submission and headship, in order to provide a legacy of “fruitful femininity.”

Thoughts?

 

[Phasmid]

The 1940's called, they want their gender policy back.

 

[Breathe]

<<snip>>Thoughts?

Liberation through submission?
Uh.

Allowing oneself not to have the rights that feminism has fought for... wow.
... what a shame.

Pretty soon they may even begin being silent in church, continually wearing headcoverings, and obeying their husbands no matter what...

I think this spells out a growing fear of secular culture, more than anything - with the rise in secularism, some people are beginning to feel threatened by it and thus are beginning to delve more into literalism as well as fundamentalism. I think this will begin to become a more growing problem as time goes on, and we are going to have a situation where this is becoming more commonplace.

My $0.02 anyway, but I hope I'm mistaken!

 

[Heneni]

I agree that women are not to be pastors. (teachers are a different thing) And im happy to submit to a pastor( a god fearing one). And im happy also to let a man get on with being the leader in the household and my leader. In other settings (outside of marriage) the bible does not teach such submission and i dont consider every man 'out there' to be my 'spiritual leader' or that he has the right to keep me under subjection.

Heneni

 

[gnomon]

My first thought is to quip, "Are any of them single?".

Kidding aside it sounds rather disturbing.

We believe that the creation of humanity as male and female was a purposeful and magnificent part of God's wise plan, and that men and women were designed to reflect the image of God in complementary and distinct ways.

So much for the homosexuals, transsexuals and intersex.

We realize that we live in a culture that does not recognize God's right to rule, does not accept Scripture as the pattern for life, and is experiencing the consequences of abandoning God's design for men and women.

All the world's problems is everyone else's fault.

Marriage, as created by God, is a sacred, binding, lifelong covenant between one man and one woman.

Once again, so much for the homosexuals, transsexuals and intersex.

Selfish insistence on personal rights is contrary to the spirit of Christ who humbled Himself, took on the form of a servant, and laid down His life for us.

Holy canole, Batman!

God's plan for gender is wider than marriage; all women, whether married or single, are to model femininity in their various relationships, by exhibiting a distinctive modesty, responsiveness, and gentleness of spirit.

Know your place, woman!

Some parts of that manifesto, if removed and presented alone, would not sound so bad. But the whole context is rather disturbing.

 

[Wandered Off]

I don't see the need for a manifesto or movement. If an individual woman wants to be this way, it's her decision. As long as someone else doesn't force it on her, I figure it's her choice. That's what true liberation is all about.

That said, I find some of their views silly.

 

[MissAlice]

I guess this is why I could never fit in with the majority of women especially religious ones.

I like my individual freedom thankyou very much.

Tis ashame some women think that they are not allowed to have an opinion or even voice one...

 

[Aquitaine]

In short, I think Secular societies need to be more brave, and innovate new ways in which we can exist in the modern world without resorting to old religious traditions that have the potential to harbour descrimination.

Don't get me wrong, if a Woman wants to be a housewife, then so be it. If a couple mutually agree on a Patriachal family order then so be it, just aslong as the alternative option is present.

But personally, rather than reverting back to religious ways, Secular society needs to be brave and think to itself what are the best ways of dealing with modern day problems, then we should overcome them and continue to progress. Other less fortunate people of the past generations have tried, fought and died so much for us to be here, let's not put all that to shame.

One step forward, no steps back plox.

 

[Papersock]

I think it is kind of sad.
If some women want to be submissive to men, then fine, let them (though I don't think they should have to be). But you can't expect every woman to live that way.
I dislike their definition of "femininity."

 

[Amill]

If they prefer to be their husband's property, rather than an individual, then so be it :sad:

As long as they don't start telling other women that they need to do the same.

 

[Willamena]

So much for the homosexuals, transsexuals and intersex.

They are not speaking out for anyone's rights but their own. If there are homosexuals, transsexuals and intersexuals in this group, they are saying the same thing as the rest of the group (thought they may interpret it differently than you did).

 

[gnomon]

They are not speaking out for anyone's rights but their own. If there are homosexuals, transsexuals and intersexuals in this group, they are saying the same thing as the rest of the group (thought they may interpret it differently than you did).

What about their children?

And they are inferring that the whole of Western society has gone to pot for not following their worldview which does not include females who are of another sexual identity or gender.

 

[Willamena]

I don't see the need for a manifesto or movement. If an individual woman wants to be this way, it's her decision. As long as someone else doesn't force it on her, I figure it's her choice. That's what true liberation is all about.

Yet they found the need to organize, start a petition and create a manifesto. That says to me that they feel they are being coerced in directions they don't want to go.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Chicago, USA, October, 2008 at the True Woman Conference ’08, 6,000 women gathered to protest the kind of liberation forced on them by Western society.

Women's 'Liberation' Through Submission: An Evangelical Anti-Feminism Is Born | Reproductive Justice and Gender | AlterNet



Thoughts?

fundamentalism at its best....

God bless stupidity and ignorance

:clap Women came from Adam's rib, thus men are better



Other thoughts:
Men have bigger brains
Women utilize their brains more efficiently though

I think valerie solanis is my fave nut job feminist

"The male chromosome is an incomplete female chromosome. In other words the male is a walking abortion; aborted at the gene stage. To be male is to be deficient, emotionally limited; maleness is a deficiency disease and males are emotional cripples." ~ Valerie Solanas (SCUM....society for cuttign up men)

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Oh no! The freedom to make their own choices has been forced on them.

Wait...that means they can still choose to place themselves beneath men if they wish.

Don't see the problem.

 

[Willamena]

What about their children?

The article only mentions imparting their values to their children, which parents would do anyway.

And they are inferring that the whole of Western society has gone to pot for not following their worldview which does not include females who are of another sexual identity or gender.

I looked, and I don't see that in the article. It could be there, but not stated. It does state that these women feel that feminism "is a multistage process that begins with feminism&#8217;s insistence on self-definition and self-determination, and ends with feminism&#8217;s declaration that women can interpret and decide for themselves who or what God is. . ."

In other words, they feel society's insistence on feminism is forcing them into a mold that includes defining for them what "God" is (self-defined).

 

[Willamena]

I think this spells out a growing fear of secular culture, more than anything - with the rise in secularism, some people are beginning to feel threatened by it and thus are beginning to delve more into literalism as well as fundamentalism. I think this will begin to become a more growing problem as time goes on, and we are going to have a situation where this is becoming more commonplace.

Do you think that feminism is inherently secular? (Question for all.)

 

[Breathe]

Do you think that feminism is inherently secular? (Question for all.)

Personally, not at all
But for many, it can be seen like this - since it's going against the status quo of traditional, patriarchal religious thought

 

[MoonWater]

“A woman on her knees sways more in this nation than a thousand three-piece suited Wall Street jerks. There is massive power in this room, so I do not take lightly this moment.”

Let me just say that if anyone wants to get me on my knees they would have to chop off everything beneath them. if these women wish to submit to their husbands they have full reign to already. I don't see why they need to have a whole big thing about it.

Do you think that feminism is inherently secular? (Question for all.)

it depends on what you mean by "inherently secular". Do you mean that those who advocate feminism tend to be secular? For that I would say no, they come from all walks of life. Or do you mean that feminism is secular in that the ideas of feminism do not need religion and are separate from religion? In which case i would say yes feminism is inherently secular.

 

[Heneni]

fundamentalism at its best....

God bless stupidity and ignorance

:clap Women came from Adam's rib, thus men are better



Other thoughts:
Men have bigger brains
Women utilize their brains more efficiently though

I think valerie solanis is my fave nut job feminist

"The male chromosome is an incomplete female chromosome. In other words the male is a walking abortion; aborted at the gene stage. To be male is to be deficient, emotionally limited; maleness is a deficiency disease and males are emotional cripples." ~ Valerie Solanas (SCUM....society for cuttign up men)

Kryke...Well you know...personally unless a man has what it takes to lead the household i wouldnt give him a second look. Frankly, im not some weak 'rib' that needs a man to rule over me. I WANT a man to be my leader in my house. I WANT to, out of love submit myself to him. I WANT to let him fullfill his role in the family as I believe it has been ordained from the beginning.

I dont want a husband to rule over me because im weak. I want him to do it, because that is the natural order of things. I know that when i dont go against the order of things, i actually have more security and safety than trying to go against the grain. Naturally, for me, the guy can be weak in all sorts of manner, but if he is weak in conscience and weak in morals, and weak in a relationship with god, i think id be rather stupid to marry him in the first place.

A man is not an abortion Mr. cheese. A man is god's chosen leader in the family.