Women: What happens in the voting booth, stays in the voting booth

[anna.]

Women in swing states, Republican strongholds and Democratic cities are leaving notes for other women to see, encouraging them to vote their minds and reminding them that their ballots are secret. (Jill Nash; Olivia Dreizen Howell; Jenny Dreizen)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/11/03/harris-wife-trump-husband-ad/

 

[Subduction Zone]

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that the New Testament doesn't condone or dis condone slavery. I believe it's just simply stating that whatever state you find yourself in, to be content in that state.

Yes, the clear support of slavery is in the Old Testament. It is recognized as an unfortunate state in the New Testament. Still nothing bad is said about slave owners. You would think that an all powerful God could do something about it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Women in swing states, Republican strongholds and Democratic cities are leaving notes for other women to see, encouraging them to vote their minds and reminding them that their ballots are secret. (Jill Nash; Olivia Dreizen Howell; Jenny Dreizen)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/11/03/harris-wife-trump-husband-ad/

Openly advocating for a candidate in the polling stations , as in the two Harris/Walz post-its is almost surely illegal. But neutral ones probably are not. If one just reminds a person that one's vote is private that should not be banned.

 

[anna.]

Openly advocating for a candidate in the polling stations , as in the two Harris/Walz post-its is almost surely illegal. But neutral ones probably are not. If one just reminds a person that one's vote is private that should not be banned.

? Not sure why you think these were posted in polling stations? They were posted in various places where women would see them, most commonly it seems, in women’s restrooms around the country.

 

[Subduction Zone]

? Not sure why you think these were posted in polling stations? They were posted in various places where women would see them, most commonly it seems, in women’s restrooms around the country.

That makes more sense. Thank you.

 

[Kenny]

You missed the point.
Either the jewish perspective is authoritative or it is not.
If you were to ask a jew their perspective on the New Testament, they would say it is not actual holy scritpture. Is the jewish perspective authoritative then? If it is not, why do you care about the jewish perspective on Leviticus and Numbers?

OK… this is a segueing issue. We aren’t talking about what Jewish people think of the NT since there are those Jewish people who also believe in Jesus as the Messiah.

We are talking about slavery and the two points. If you are going to quote the TaNaKh, get the Jewish perspective and not modern day perspective. If you are talking about NT, it is from there that the abolitionist got their position from.

Another example of cherry picking. That was an one time event leading to the hebrews getting out of Egypt. As you are well aware, Leviticus and Numbers come after Exodus, and in both of them you will see slavery being allowed. Slavery was not in itself the issue in Exodus, but rather what people were enslaved and under what conditions.

You asked for a scripture and I have you one and now you are balking at it?

Get a Jewish perspective.

No arguments to address on any of this.

OK

I have already said the underlying rationale is not applicable merely to dietary matters. It is applicable to disputable matters of faith as clearly said in the text, but not to disputable matters of politics.

And telling your wife how to vote is a faith matter.

If you don’t agree, you have a dictatorial viewpoint.

 

[Koldo]

OK… this is a segueing issue. We aren’t talking about what Jewish people think of the NT since there are those Jewish people who also believe in Jesus as the Messiah.

We are talking about slavery and the two points. If you are going to quote the TaNaKh, get the Jewish perspective and not modern day perspective. If you are talking about NT, it is from there that the abolitionist got their position from.

You asked for a scripture and I have you one and now you are balking at it?

Get a Jewish perspective.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Either the jewish perspective matters or it does not. You can't selectively say it matters when it is convenient to you, and say it doesn't matter when it is not convenient to you. If the jewish perspective matters then the NT ought not to be regarded as holy scritpture.

OK

And telling your wife how to vote is a faith matter.

If you don’t agree, you have a dictatorial viewpoint.

How is telling your wife how to vote a faith matter exactly?

 

[Kenny]

It You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Either the jewish perspective matters or it does not. You can't selectively say it matters when it is convenient to you, and say it doesn't matter when it is not convenient to you. If the jewish perspective matters then the NT ought not to be regarded as holy scritpture.

Again, you are creating an issue where there is no issue. Is it because you don’t have a defense? We are talking slavery, here. Please don’t build a strawman.

How is telling your wife how to vote a faith matter exactly?

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. Each person hopes that the person they vote for is the answer to the countries problem. They don’t really know what they are goiing to do when they get into office but they believe that what they hope for will come to pass.

Telling your wife what to pray for can violate their faith. If the husband’s candidate agrees with abortion and she doesn’t (or visa versa) - it is a violation of her conscience and faith.

If I were to take your position then “ AMP Obey your [spiritual] leaders and submit to them [recognizing their authority over you], for they are keeping watch over your souls andcontinually guarding your spiritual welfare as those who will give an account [of their stewardship of you]. Let them do this with joy and not with grief and groans, for this would be of no benefit to you.” Pastors would be telling both husbands and wives who to vote for - but that still isn’t the intent or purpose for “obey” or “submit”.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

And telling your wife how to vote is a faith matter.

If you don’t agree, you have a dictatorial viewpoint

Telling your wife how to vote is controlling and misogynistic. If it's your religion telling you to do this, then your religion is controlling and misogynistic.

But even so, nobody is trying to take your controlling, misogynistic religion away from you.

 

[Kenny]

Women in swing states, Republican strongholds and Democratic cities are leaving notes for other women to see, encouraging them to vote their minds and reminding them that their ballots are secret. (Jill Nash; Olivia Dreizen Howell; Jenny Dreizen)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/11/03/harris-wife-trump-husband-ad/

This is a great way to push your point in neutral bathrooms! I support this effort. However,

This person either has Spanish as a second language and hasn’t used it or, perhaps, it is a WaPo reporter trying to create a story by visiting different bathrooms or walls and has a poor handle on Spanish. Otherwise, he must have visited 100’s of bathroom stalls

Su VOTO es SUYO. Not ‘vota”. “Su” and “suyo” not “Su” and "tuyo"

or TU VOTO es TUYO.

 

[Kenny]

Telling your wife how to vote is controlling and misogynistic. If it's your religion telling you to do this, then your religion is controlling and misogynistic.

But even so, nobody is trying to take your controlling, misogynistic religion away from you.

I agree totally. I think you got the posting line messwd up

My position is that this isn’t scriptural. It is Koldo who is pushing this line of thinking. Maybe the poster Koldo IS misogynistic… I already said it was controlling.

That being said, you sound like your have religiophobia.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I agree totally. I think you got the posting line messwd up

Looking back, through the thread, it seems that way.

My position is that this isn’t scriptural. It is Koldo who is pushing this line of thinking. Maybe the poster Koldo IS misogynistic… I already said it was controlling.

Personally, I'm not sure how voting at all could be considered scriptural. Any sort of secular political participation - voting, running for office, dinating to campaigns, etc. - strikes me as going against the commands to stay "separate from the world." It also seems that anyone who trusted in God the way the Bible suggests wouldn't be motivated to effect political change.

 

[Kenny]

Looking back, through the thread, it seems that way.

No problem. In actuality I was saying that to tell your wife how to vote, it is dictatorship and not love. That, scripturally, it is a violation of her faith.

Personally, I'm not sure how voting at all could be considered scriptural. Any sort of secular political participation - voting, running for office, dinating to campaigns, etc. - strikes me as going against the commands to stay "separate from the world." It also seems that anyone who trusted in God the way the Bible suggests wouldn't be motivated to effect political change.

Yes, people do get tripped up on that issue… but here is the basis...

Exodus 18: 21 But select capable men from all the people-men who fear God, trustworthy men who hate dishonest gain-and appoint them as officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties and tens. 22 Have them serve as judges for the people at all times, but have them bring every difficult case to you; the simple cases they can decide themselves. That will make your load lighter, because they will share it with you. 23 If you do this and God so commands, you will be able to stand the strain, and all these people will go home satisfied." 24 Moses listened to his father-in-law and did everything he said. 25 He chose capable men from all Israel and made them leaders of the people, officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties and tens. 26 They served as judges for the people at all times. The difficult cases they brought to Moses, but the simple ones they decided themselves.

“Separate from the world” is more about how you live your life like - I can’t be getting drunk with my coworkers and still say I am following Christ Jesus. Nothing to do with being involved in Government. God is into government.

 

[Wirey]

Openly advocating for a candidate in the polling stations , as in the two Harris/Walz post-its is almost surely illegal. But neutral ones probably are not. If one just reminds a person that one's vote is private that should not be banned.

It is. Telling someone their vote is secret is probably not, but the "Vote Kamala Harris" is, and would be a shameful way to have a lawsuit throw out ballot boxes of votes.

 

[Kathryn]

In Ephesians, the author gives advice to slaveowners. That advice includes a recommendation not to threaten your slaves, but it doesn't include a recommendation to free them.

I'd say that this is a tacit endorsement.

I did a word study on the term "slave" and the really interesting thing to me was that the term was used for everything from "beloved house servant" to (rarely) "slave in the field." I don't know why it was translated that way but unfortunately it was, which has led to a lot of confusion about the terms.

 

[Kathryn]

Yes, the clear support of slavery is in the Old Testament. It is recognized as an unfortunate state in the New Testament. Still nothing bad is said about slave owners. You would think that an all powerful God could do something about it.

See my above post.

 

[Koldo]

Again, you are creating an issue where there is no issue. Is it because you don’t have a defense? We are talking slavery, here. Please don’t build a strawman.

What are you even talking about? Where do you see any strawman?

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. Each person hopes that the person they vote for is the answer to the countries problem. They don’t really know what they are goiing to do when they get into office but they believe that what they hope for will come to pass.

Please, do not take Hebrews 11:1 out of context. If you read the entirety of Hebrews 11, you will easily see that what is being called faith is not merely hoping for things in general.

Telling your wife what to pray for can violate their faith. If the husband’s candidate agrees with abortion and she doesn’t (or visa versa) - it is a violation of her conscience and faith.

Once again, like I have already said multiple times by now, if the person in question thinks they are disobeying God by voting in a certain candidate, that is a separated matter.

If I were to take your position then “ AMP Obey your [spiritual] leaders and submit to them [recognizing their authority over you], for they are keeping watch over your souls andcontinually guarding your spiritual welfare as those who will give an account [of their stewardship of you]. Let them do this with joy and not with grief and groans, for this would be of no benefit to you.” Pastors would be telling both husbands and wives who to vote for - but that still isn’t the intent or purpose for “obey” or “submit”.

That is the intent and purpose of 'obey'. What you are not getting is that those leaders are supposed to be acting in the best interests of their flock and in strict adherence to God's commands. They are not supposed to be self-serving leaders.

 

[anna.]

This person either has Spanish as a second language and hasn’t used it or, perhaps, it is a WaPo reporter trying to create a story by visiting different bathrooms or walls and has a poor handle on Spanish. Otherwise, he must have visited 100’s of bathroom stalls

Maybe they have Spanish as a second language (mean-spirited comment, btw), but a "WaPo reporter," or "he" as you refer to him, didn't write the notes.

Women did. To other women. For other women.

 

[wellwisher]

At least since 2016. What happened then? Hmmmm. Little by little the worst in some men (and some women) has found reason to emerge from better sense and decency.

That has to do with the constant drum beat of hate and misinformation from the DNC and fake news since 2016. Trump was one outsider person, more or less on his own; new kid to the government school yard. The Swamp, fake news, and the DNC was an army of thousands. To have a bully, there needs to be an inequity of power. The swamp army had all the power, which allowed the Russian Collusion Coup onward through the law fare of 2024, and more. The Swamp army was the bully, and Trump, who was their target, would not back down or leave. Bullies do not like their victims to fight back, especially if outgunned. That makes them look weaker.

Many people, like myself, who know and can see bullies, saw all the injustice, early, so I volunteered to help make the fight more even. The Left is still thinks they are the victim, and Trump is the bully, for not staying on the ground. If Trump did not run for President; stayed on the gourd, all would be fine. The law fare was another beat down by the bully. But Trump got back up, again.

When Trump wins, he needs to beat up the bully once and for all. Trump, the street law, has a bunch of sucker shots in the bank. None of their sucker shot took him out. He gets to draw from the bank. Once the bully leaves the school, things will settle down. The bully is the problem. Most Democrats and Republicans just want peace, but the DNC base cannot blame their own leadership for the starting the war. They drank the Kool-Aid, and still think one person can bully an army with only words and not actions.

The current amplified paranoia of the left's bully leadership, is connected to the bulls seeing signs of justice due. Their last year of illegal beat down did not work. That caused more of the gang to expose themselves. Now the bullies cheat in plain sight, out of desperation. It is time to take back the school yard, and settle things down. If the bully is allowed to escape, with more punches given than he receives, he will do it again. There will be no peace.

If you want peace, and Trump wins, and the bully game starts to begin again, then it is up to Trump to ends it for all of us; reach into his bank of sucker punches he is owed. It is not you, but just the crooked leaders, you have chosen to follow. Let them go and then find ones who want peace and prosperity for all. The old guard; Clintons, Pelosi's, Obamas and Biden's needs to bury the hatchet, leave town, or be thrown out. Harris is not to blame, since she is more of a loyal follower, who will change with the change.

 

[wellwisher]

And it's apparent that such men lack self-reflection, and aren't aware of their own weakness and insecurities. The right has definately skewed the notion of what "strong" is in a personality.

Strong men are rational and understand that sentiment is not the same as reason. They also understand that a bad record and no tangible policy change, will not guarantee a good record the next time. Policy is not dice and cards. Rather better policies, that have been already been test proven to work, have a better chance of working again and now even be extrapolated further; better success.

The strong man, who tries to reason with his wife, who can only judge by sentiment; likes the person with failed ideas, may be talking to a wall in terms of the role of a President. It is not about who makes you feel good, but who's done a better job for the Country. Reason may not be her strong suit and she still may not get it. The husband will need to have diplomatic patience, to deal with the ding bat, he loves, by breaking his common sense down, so she can see at least at some of his logic and some real hard data. He may tell a story of a friend would got a car cheap, and was told it was in perfect shape, only to have buyer remorse and a money pit. He bought it because he liked the guy and seemed to trust him.

Do not get into an emotional battles of like and dislike, since that leads down the low road of sentiment before common sense.

The Left appears to be composed, more of these who are attracted to National Enquirer more than to National Geographic. Some Conservative men will get frustrated with his ding bat wife, who is a better at gossip, and fad following, than science. He need to control his inner caveman. Instead, he is needs to play the naughty Professor with the naughty graduate student; wife. Ding bats like men who are in charge but fair, yet walk the fence of the law; smart bad boys. This actually appeals to the sentiments and if she likes that,, she will memorize the game, even if not fully digested, rationally. A woman scorned will blank out and ignore the truth.

A fantasy role play, that end in intimacy, can be a venue to get her In character, so she will learn and can enjoy the lessons. Reason alone may not reach the lovable ding bat, who has other qualities that make a home a home and her children well balanced.