Word of Faith debate

[Bishka]

The president is also supplied with a home. According to the Salt Lake Tribune, Aug. 27, 1994, p. E1, the president of the LDS Church lives in a "downtown condominium, the official residence of church presidents." In the Salt Lake Tribune, Dec. 8, 1988, we read "The $1.2 million condominium at 40 N. State that is home to the president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will be exempt from property taxes, Salt Lake County commissioners ruled Tuesday."

utlm.org

yeah, thats ridiculous

Let's see... UTLM, an anti-Mormon website/publication. Try again; biased sources like that do not hold much weight in the water. Besides, this is not about Mormons or Muslims, it is about Word of Faith. Stick to the subject or I will be forced to report this to a moderator.

 

[doppelganger]

Word Of Faith doctrine really belongs exactly in the crowd it's marketed to - New Agers who don't want to let go of their childhood faith. It's nothing more than new age spirituality and spiritualism dressed up with Christian terminology.

"Word of Faith" type thinking does not translate necessarily to "new age spirituality." There are plenty of decent, serious, thoughtful and earnest adherents to "New Age" philosophies. As with Christianity though, there are plenty more who want "The Secret."

 

[MaddLlama]

"Word of Faith" type thinking does not translate necessarily to "new age spirituality." There are plenty of decent, serious, thoughtful and earnest adherents to "New Age" philosophies. As with Christianity though, there are plenty more who want "The Secret."

My opinion of a lot of new age things is pretty negative, so it's all the same to me.

 

[Hope]

The WOF preachers make me sick. They totally misrepresent Christ. Imagine the reaction if they preached their message amongst poverty-stricken Christians in third world countries. :cover:

 

[rocka21]

The WOF preachers make me sick. They totally misrepresent Christ. Imagine the reaction if they preached their message amongst poverty-stricken Christians in third world countries. :cover:

again, don't lump all WOF in the same pot.

what message do you dissagree with? that god will supply your needs?

 

[doppelganger]

My opinion of a lot of new age things is pretty negative, so it's all the same to me.

Care to elaborate?

 

[methylatedghosts]

So word-of-faith is basically saying "I have a divine right to be rich and healthy?"

 

[MaddLlama]

Care to elaborate?

Not particularly.

 

[rocka21]

So word-of-faith is basically saying "I have a divine right to be rich and healthy?"

nope, almost

i have the right - according to the price Jesus paid , to have all my needs supplied and to walk in health.

 

[MaddLlama]

nope, almost

i have the right - according to the price Jesus paid , to have all my needs supplied and to walk in health.

Word of Faith doesn't just deal with needs, it deals with wants. Every person has the right to basic needs. However, saying "God wants me to have a million dollar house and a porche" is not "fulfilling a need".

 

[rocka21]

Word of Faith doesn't just deal with needs, it deals with wants. Every person has the right to basic needs. However, saying "God wants me to have a million dollar house and a porche" is not "fulfilling a need".

really?

is there a " word of faith" handbook?

are we a denomonation?

then where are you getting this???

you may have heard a few preachers say some stuff , but to lump all " word of faith" together is really not right.

now....... can you give me a " god wants me to have a million dollar house and porche" quote?

 

[Comprehend]

lets look at Marks gospel.



21Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
23And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
24And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

again, this young man TRUSTED IN RICHES. WOF does not teach you to do that.

25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
26And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
27And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
28Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.
29And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, 30But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.




what does " in this time" mean to you.

he was tring to give him more. not take away anything from him. if he would have just gave it up first, he would have got it back and then some. NO?

Nice try but you don't get to switch scriptures. Lets first finish discussing the original scripture then we can address this one. You don't get to run away from the scriptures you don't like.

Particularly, could you explain why Jesus tells his followers to sell everything they own:

32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

Also could you explain why in Acts the apostles sold everything and lived communally?

 

[rocka21]

Nice try but you don't get to switch scriptures. Lets first finish discussing the original scripture then we can address this one. You don't get to run away from the scriptures you don't like.

no running here. will you at least admit that the scripture i am quoting is telling the SAME STORY?

if its the same story, then whats your problem?

 

[methylatedghosts]

Ok, I do believe somewhat in the power of "positive thinking" (I think "The Secret" covers that, but I haven't read it yet) and positive attitude towards life. And I think that consciously turning negatives into focusing on positives has a positive outcome. (Some people will disagree, but I like to think that this is why I have been so well that I haven't see a doctor for 3-5 years while I have lived in some really grotty houses). And naturally we have the right to believe as we wish.

So as for that I don't think that there's anything wrong with saying "My life is working out" or "I am doing good" or "I am wealthy" or "I am successful" and having those things follow afterwards through the work or through the things you do. But to have these come at the expense or even, dare I say, exploitation, of others is, well, not really positive in the least.

Success and wealth and what have you, should come from your own hard work and is not "divinely given" (but the right to it, sure, the right to success and wealth etc might be "divinely given", I don't know), but I believe that positive thought and action and attitude definately helps.

 

[Comprehend]

no running here. will you at least admit that the scripture i am quoting is telling the SAME STORY?

if its the same story, then whats your problem?

see my edit.

 

[Hope]

again, don't lump all WOF in the same pot.

what message do you dissagree with? that god will supply your needs?

Of course I believe God will supply all my needs----Word of Faith goes way beyond that, though. I agree with what MaddLlama said:

Word of Faith doesn't just deal with needs, it deals with wants. Every person has the right to basic needs. However, saying "God wants me to have a million dollar house and a porche" is not "fulfilling a need".

That's about the gist of what I disagree with. Don't you think it would be a slap in the face of poor, persecuted Christians in other nations if someone told them Jesus wants them to be rich, and that the only reason they aren't is because they don't have enough faith? Word of Faith takes Scriptures out of context and twists them. It distorts the truth to justify placing man's pleasure and needs above the will of a sovereign God.

 

[rocka21]

Nice try but you don't get to switch scriptures. Lets first finish discussing the original scripture then we can address this one. You don't get to run away from the scriptures you don't like.

Particularly, could you explain why Jesus tells his followers to sell everything they own:

32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

Also could you explain why in Acts the apostles sold everything and lived communally?

so why haven't you done this?

 

[Hope]

nope, almost

i have the right - according to the price Jesus paid , to have all my needs supplied and to walk in health.

I don't know of any Scriptures that say these are "rights." Everything we have is a gift from God, not a right.

 

[rocka21]

Of course I believe God will supply all my needs----Word of Faith goes way beyond that, though. I agree with what MaddLlama said:



That's about the gist of what I disagree with. Don't you think it would be a slap in the face of poor, persecuted Christians in other nations if someone told them Jesus wants them to be rich, and that the only reason they aren't is because they don't have enough faith? Word of Faith takes Scriptures out of context and twists them. It distorts the truth to justify placing man's pleasure and needs above the will of a sovereign God.

again....... do you have a quote for " Jesus wants you to be rich and the only reason your are not is becasue you don't have enough faith"?

who are you quoting here?


you say Word of Faith takes scriptures out of context. any examples?

again, just to remind you , there is no " word of faith" chruch or organization.

 

[rocka21]

I don't know of any Scriptures that say these are "rights." Everything we have is a gift from God, not a right.

well then i have the " GIFT". (better?)