Word of Faith debate

[Bishka]

LOL...

let me start a tread to attack WOF. then when they respond to muslims i will say " OFF TOPIC!"

then when they bring up Rich mormon leaders i will again say " OFF TOPIC!" i will report you.

this is Great!!!:bow:

Where am I attacking? I was brining this thread into debate because the other thread was in a DIR section; I stated that in my OP and then Midnightblue asked me a question.

 

[MaddLlama]

really?

is there a " word of faith" handbook?

are we a denomonation?

then where are you getting this???

you may have heard a few preachers say some stuff , but to lump all " word of faith" together is really not right.

now....... can you give me a " god wants me to have a million dollar house and porche" quote?

With no "official handbook", then anybody can claim to speak for the entire doctrine. I'm not sure that saying because only 'few' people say something, that invalidates a negative opinion of it.

 

[rocka21]

you see my friends,

many christians live in this " La, La" land.

Even thou they live in the " RICHEST " country on earth. They have more " material things" than about %90 of the rest of the people on the planet.

they pull these scriptures out and throw them at the WOF people and "act" like they walk aroung in robes and have no bank account. They like to " act" poor, and hide there riches.

i on the other hand have no problem with riches. Solomon was the richest man on earth. Job was rich, David was rich, Abraham was rich. And look at this....

Matthew 27:57
When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:


now how did that get into the bible??? a RICH disciple. Yeah, read it again, then again , then again, until you get that poverty mentality out of your mind and realize that the more money you have, the more good you can do with it.

thats why we have TV stations spreading the gospel, mega churches, missionarys, feed the poor. ect, ect. its because we HAVE some MONEY AND CAN DO GODS WORK WITH IT.

and again, all you who think riches is of the devil. GO TODAY and EMPTY your bank account. dont go to work. just get enought for food and water, goodwill clothes, and a cardbord box to live in. Until then.......... don't throw stones.


i like this post so much i want to paste it over here.

 

[Hope]

again....... do you have a quote for " Jesus wants you to be rich and the only reason your are not is becasue you don't have enough faith"?

who are you quoting here?

Creflo Dollar:

YouTube - GREEDY CREFLO DOLLAR EXPLAINS WHY PEOPLE IS POOR...

 

[rocka21]

With no "official handbook", then anybody can claim to speak for the entire doctrine. I'm not sure that saying because only 'few' people say something, that invalidates a negative opinion of it.

exactly,

thats why " word of faith " is not a doctrine. its what others label some preachers.

 

[rocka21]

Creflo Dollar:

YouTube - GREEDY CREFLO DOLLAR EXPLAINS WHY PEOPLE IS POOR...

HA HA HA!

thats the funniest thing i have ever watched!


Now, if you listen. did he say " all people" or did he say " some of you in here"?

and why only 49 sec. clip? talk about taking things out of context! nice try thou...:yes:


thats what MOST of the christians who try to talk agaist someone do. take a 10 or 20 sec. clip out of context. nothing new.

 

[nutshell]

you see my friends,

many christians live in this " La, La" land.

Even thou they live in the " RICHEST " country on earth. They have more " material things" than about %90 of the rest of the people on the planet.

they pull these scriptures out and throw them at the WOF people and "act" like they walk aroung in robes and have no bank account. They like to " act" poor, and hide there riches.

i on the other hand have no problem with riches. Solomon was the richest man on earth. Job was rich, David was rich, Abraham was rich. And look at this....

Matthew 27:57
When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:


now how did that get into the bible??? a RICH disciple. Yeah, read it again, then again , then again, until you get that poverty mentality out of your mind and realize that the more money you have, the more good you can do with it.

thats why we have TV stations spreading the gospel, mega churches, missionarys, feed the poor. ect, ect. its because we HAVE some MONEY AND CAN DO GODS WORK WITH IT.

and again, all you who think riches is of the devil. GO TODAY and EMPTY your bank account. dont go to work. just get enought for food and water, goodwill clothes, and a cardbord box to live in. Until then.......... don't throw stones.


i like this post so much i want to paste it over here.

Wow. Looks like you have your sermon for this Sunday.

 

[rocka21]

Wow. Looks like you have your sermon for this Sunday.

nope,

but it would be a good one thou...:angel2:

 

[jamaesi]

don't make me google some muslims with two of them.

Uh... what?


You'd get a kick out of my car then. Jeep Cherokee with a cracked windshield (ice cracked it last winter), needs a new U-joint in the front, needs a lot of work to get the 4WD working without throwing a fit, needs four new tires, the hood doesn't even open cause the latches are broken, and a electronic gremlin I named "Stupidface" that makes working the windows and fog lights more interesting. She also does the Jeep Death Rattle if you're going over 50 and hit a bump.

However the baby needs to pass inspection so she's in the shop getting all that fixed but the gremlin, but I've been driving her for the past year like that.

Oh yeah. Us Muslims, just snapping up all them fancy cars. I know you're jealous, but she's not for sale.


Perhaps I should just start praying now for a luxury car in light of this thread, but I'll just hope she gets through inspection.

 

[rocka21]

Uh... what?


You'd get a kick out of my car then. Jeep Cherokee with a cracked windshield (ice cracked it last winter), needs a new U-joint in the front, needs a lot of work to get the 4WD working without throwing a fit, needs four new tires, the hood doesn't even open cause the latches are broken, and a electronic gremlin I named "Stupidface" that makes working the windows and fog lights more interesting. She also does the Jeep Death Rattle if you're going over 50 and hit a bump.

However the baby needs to pass inspection so she's in the shop getting all that fixed but the gremlin, but I've been driving her for the past year like that.

Oh yeah. Us Muslims, just snapping up all them fancy cars. I know your jealous, but she's not for sale.

nice jokes.

but you do agree that there are VERY rich muslims out there? right?

then why throw stones?

 

[nutshell]

nope,

but it would be a good one thou...:angel2:

I agree. I don't find any problem with being rich.

 

[rocka21]

I agree. I don't find any problem with being rich.

hi five!!!


you just might be " word of faith"! LOL

 

[Bishka]

nice jokes.

but you do agree that there are VERY rich muslims out there? right?

then why throw stones?

That isn't the problem. It's what these preachers are preaching. No where do I see Muslim or Mormon preachers preaching that God will give you money if you just believe and all the other jazz the WOF preachers preach. There is a difference, you just fail to see it.

 

[Hope]

HA HA HA!

thats the funniest thing i have ever watched!


Now, if you listen. did he say " all people" or did he say " some of you in here"?

and why only 49 sec. clip? talk about taking things out of context! nice try thou...:yes:


thats what MOST of the christians who try to talk agaist someone do. take a 10 or 20 sec. clip out of context. nothing new.

The problem is, rocka, is that Creflo isn't the only WOF preacher who says things like this. And you can argue all you want that it was "taken out of context," but what he said is what he said, and whether he said "some of you here" or "all people" doesn't really matter because everyone knows what he means. He preaches a prosperity gospel. Plain and simple.

I like how John Piper describes and refutes the WOF/prosperity gospel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukcV-xtU3hc

Anyone who preaches more about the gifts than the Giver is preaching idolatry. It's that simple.

 

[rocka21]

That isn't the problem. It's what these preachers are preaching. No where do I see Muslim or Mormon preachers preaching that God will give you money if you just believe and all the other jazz the WOF preachers preach. There is a difference, you just fail to see it.

again......... and this is getting old...........


please quote " wof" preachers saying God will give you money if you just believe.

i beleive god will supply your needs. if you want money ( riches), you got to put some works behind your faith. ( ask the muslim oil prince)

and what other " jazz"?

 

[rocka21]

The problem is, rocka, is that Creflo isn't the only WOF preacher who says things like this. And you can argue all you want that it was "taken out of context," but what he said is what he said, and whether he said "some of you here" or "all people" doesn't really matter because everyone knows what he means. He preaches a prosperity gospel. Plain and simple.

I like how John Piper describes and refutes the WOF/prosperity gospel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukcV-xtU3hc

Anyone who preaches more about the gifts than the Giver is preaching idolatry. It's that simple.

you love your little videos don't you?

LOL. this guy seems mad.

lets do a little test i will type a name , you tell me rich or poor.

Abraham
Moses
Job
Solomon - i will answer that one for you ( RICHEST MAN ON EARTH)
David

its not a NEW gospel that god blesses his people. read my earlier post on the richest nation.

 

[jamaesi]

nice jokes.

but you do agree that there are VERY rich muslims out there? right?

then why throw stones?

I would never joke about my Jeep. She's my darlin' baby girl, all covered in mud.



Sure, there are rich Muslims. There's poor Muslims. There's all kinds of Muslims.

But one of the most important tenets of Islam is charity and caring for the less fortunate. There's two types of charity in Islam obligatory and voluntary, and numerous mentions in Qur'an and Hadith about how if you have extreme wealth when people around you are struggling in poverty and you do nothing to assist them you cannot achieve righteousness and you will be judged for your selfishness.


And uh, where was I throwin' those stones?

 

[rocka21]

I would never joke about my Jeep. She's my darlin' baby girl, all covered in mud.



Sure, there are rich Muslims. There's poor Muslims. There's all kinds of Muslims.

But one of the most important tenets of Islam is charity and caring for the less fortunate. There's two types of charity in Islam obligatory and voluntary, and numerous mentions in Qur'an and Hadith about how if you have extreme wealth when people around you are struggling in poverty and you do nothing to assist them you cannot achieve righteousness and you will be judged for your selfishness.


And uh, where was I throwin' those stones?

So you are saying that there are no muslims that live in Extreme wealth and no people around them live in extreme poverty?

christians assist the poor. its called alms.

I am selfish?....... thanks

the truth is you don't know how much money i have given to the poor. ( and i am willing to bet that i have given more MONEY to the poor this year than you). now who is selfish?

why? because i prosper.

 

[MaddLlama]

So you are saying that there are no muslims that live in Extreme wealth and no people around them live in extreme poverty?

No, her post says that the Muslims that do find themselves in this situation and don't give anything will be judged for their selfishness.

christians assist the poor. its called alms.

Who said Christians don't assist the poor?

I am selfish?....... thanks

the truth is you don't know how much money i have given to the poor. ( and i am willing to bet that i have given more MONEY to the poor this year than you). now who is selfish?

why? because i prosper.

Can you point out where she specifically accused you of not giving to the poor, or accused you of being selfish? Because, I certainly don't see it. Maybe it's a reading skill thing...

 

[Hope]

you see my friends,

many christians live in this " La, La" land.

Even thou they live in the " RICHEST " country on earth. They have more " material things" than about %90 of the rest of the people on the planet.

they pull these scriptures out and throw them at the WOF people and "act" like they walk aroung in robes and have no bank account. They like to " act" poor, and hide there riches.

i on the other hand have no problem with riches. Solomon was the richest man on earth. Job was rich, David was rich, Abraham was rich. And look at this....

Matthew 27:57
When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:


now how did that get into the bible??? a RICH disciple. Yeah, read it again, then again , then again, until you get that poverty mentality out of your mind and realize that the more money you have, the more good you can do with it.

thats why we have TV stations spreading the gospel, mega churches, missionarys, feed the poor. ect, ect. its because we HAVE some MONEY AND CAN DO GODS WORK WITH IT.

and again, all you who think riches is of the devil. GO TODAY and EMPTY your bank account. dont go to work. just get enought for food and water, goodwill clothes, and a cardbord box to live in. Until then.......... don't throw stones.


i like this post so much i want to paste it over here.

You're missing the point and overreacting, rocka. The Bible doesn't declare that we should seek either riches or poverty, or that one state is more desirable than the other. It does say, however, that the love of money is the root of all evil, that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God, and that we should seek first the kingdom of God, then all these things shall be added unto us. The examples you gave about Abraham, Job, David, etc., are exceptions, not the rule, in Scripture. Jesus Himself was a homeless, poor rabbi while He walked this earth.

Word of Faith twists all the Scriptures about God blessing us into statements about our divine rights to wealth and health. You yourself said they were your "rights". WOF teaching basically exalts the blessings of God over God Himself, as John Piper pointed out. And this is so, so dangerous. There is nothing wrong with being rich. If God blesses some with wealth, then that's totally up to God. But we shouldn't treat God like a giant vending machine and distort His Word to try to manipulate Him to give us what we want. Which is basically what WOF does. Jesus said to store our treasures in heaven, not here on earth, and to seek first His kingdom. We should always make God our ultimate treasure and pleasure, then, if He desires, He may bless us with health and wealth. It's not the other way around.