World Peace is Possible and Will Happen

[Aupmanyav]

As a faith community the Baha'is believe that world peace is not only possible but inevitable. .. Many of the Baha'i principles put forward by Baha'u'llah in the nineteenth century are now mainstream and embraced by the majority of the world's peoples.

That is called 'hope against hope'.
You say Bahais are 5 to 10 million. Then how do you say that the idea is embraced by majority of the world?
The non-Bahais bristle when you term their belief as corrupted.

 

[Truth in love]

Well, you know how claims go... lots of us don't believe the claims of Joseph Smith, so we automatically think he's a false prophet. The Baha'i prophet has the same kind of problem, but even worse. He's claiming to be the return of Christ It makes it very easy to just write him off as a crackpot without learning about what he taught. Are there somethings in their peace plan that you think could actually work?

They are big on the fundamental equality of all people, helping the poor and improving education. These are all excellent ideals and show promise of promoting peace. Will it be the thing that works? no. The hate and related issues run to deep around the world, but they may be a big part of God's larger plan.

 

[CG Didymus]

That is not true. We're a small religious community with an estimated 5 to 10 million followers world wide. We are in no position to take over an government and it would be contrary to the spirit of our faith. As a faith community the Baha'is believe that world peace is not only possible but inevitable. Whether that comes about through humanities collective efforts or through unimaginable horrors is up to us all, not just the Baha'is. Many of the Baha'i principles put forward by Baha'u'llah in the nineteenth century are now mainstream and embraced by the majority of the world's peoples. Although much progress has been made there is clearly a great deal of work to be done. The Baha'is are not sitting back and waiting for the world to fall apart.

What's not true? That the Baha'is are going to take over the world? Or... the Baha'is are not waiting for the old world order to crumble and then usher in a new world order?

I would hope, that if God is real and the Baha'i Faith is from that God, that the Baha'i would usher in God's plan. But that plan seems to depend on when a big catastrophe hits and the governments and the people of the world have no choice but to turn to God's plan as outlined in the Baha'i writings. If that is not correct than what do Baha'is expect to happen? We could very well be on the brink of that catastrophe... the Baha'is have local, national and a world governing system in place. Isn't that part of the "new world order"?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

That is one of the questions I keep asking... Is there any prophecy in any religion that has the Christ, the Messiah or anybody coming and not bringing about peace on Earth and good will towards men and all that goody, goody stuff? And the big catastrophe I always thought was before the Messiah came, not after.

But why aren't you and other Baha'is talking about the peace statement and other Baha'i teachings about peace? Peace is the big promise, isn't it?

I think the only way, the world can reach peace, is if people of the world follow the advise of Baha'u'llah. But most people do not. So, the world continues day by day to approach the Catastrophe. It is now inevitable.

 

[CG Didymus]

That is called 'hope against hope'.
You say Bahais are 5 to 10 million. Then how do you say that the idea is embraced by majority of the world?
The non-Bahais bristle when you term their belief as corrupted.

I think the purpose of the Baha'i message was to bring peace and unity to the world. But they say it is unity in diversity. So, to the Baha'i, how are they supposed to interact with people that hold different religious beliefs? Here's a quote from a Baha'i article....

The Baha’i teachings say that each successive stage in religious history has been part of God’s great plan for human salvation—and therefore we should revere all of the prophets. Moreover, everyone should show genuine love and goodwill towards the members of different religions. Baha’u’llah gives the following exhortation: “Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship.” – Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 95.​

And from another article....

But is it possible for a corrupted religion to somehow renew itself, to recover its original authenticity, power and influence? Can an ancient Faith somehow go from a state of decay, with its hidebound, inflexible and immutable dogmas and doctrines, its corrupt clergy and the antithetical or even fanatical behavior of its followers miraculously changed for the better?

...Present exigencies demand new methods of solution; world problems are without precedent. Old ideas and modes of thought are fast becoming obsolete. Ancient laws and archaic ethical systems will not meet the requirements of modern conditions…. It is evident that no vital results are now forthcoming from the customs, institutions and standpoints of the past. In view of this, shall blind imitations of ancestral forms and theological interpretations continue to guide and control the religious life and spiritual development of humanity today?

…The divine prophets have revealed and founded religion. They have laid down certain laws and heavenly principles for the guidance of mankind. ...Soon after their departure from this world, the essential truth of their teachings was lost sight of and dogmatic imitations adhered to. Inasmuch as human interpretations and blind imitations differ widely, religious strife and disagreement have arisen among mankind, the light of true religion has been extinguished and the unity of the world of humanity destroyed.

…The nations and religions are steeped in blind and bigoted imitations. A man is a Jew because his father was a Jew. The Muhammadan follows implicitly the footsteps of his ancestors in belief and observance. The Buddhist is true to his heredity as a Buddhist. That is to say they profess religious belief blindly and without investigation, making unity and agreement impossible. It is evident therefore that this condition will not be remedied without a reformation in the world of religion. In other words the fundamental reality of the divine religions must be renewed, reformed, revoiced to mankind. – Abdu’l-Baha, Baha’i World Faith, pp. 224-226.​

So, what is a Baha'i to do? They are told to "consort" with people in the different religions with friendliness, but they also believe that all the other religions have lost the true meaning and teachings of their religion? And then the biggy... They are the replacement. They are the new truth. So sure, we can have peace, but is it dependent on belief in the Baha'i Faith? Which sure seems to mean that all the other religions were true and from one God, but that they no longer have or teach the truth. So, religions aren't "one". At least the way they are believed and practiced today. The only religion that has the truth, right now, according to the Baha'is, is them, the Baha'i Faith.

And if that's true, great. But is it true? Are the things they believe and propose true? Can their plan to bring peace and unity work? I don't know. Does it depend on people in all the other religions to admit their beliefs have been corrupted and changed and for them to join in and follow the teachings of the new messenger from God, Baha'u'llah?

I think so. Without that, then every religion, at best, will put up with and be tolerant of the other religions, but each will probably still believe that their religion is the true one.... knowing that the Baha'is, believe that all these other religions are wrong and are teaching people to follow and believe in false things. Can that attitude really bring peace and unity? Baha'is... can you explain this problem?

 

[Heyo]

I think the only way, the world can reach peace, is if people of the world follow the advise of Baha'u'llah. But most people do not. So, the world continues day by day to approach the Catastrophe. It is now inevitable.

Advise, even if it is good advice, is suspicious when it comes with a religious agenda.

 

[Dawnofhope]

It sounds like the Baha'i plan is to wait for the world to fall apart, and then... whoever's left, to put the Baha'i plan into practice.

That is not true.

What's not true? That the Baha'is are going to take over the world? Or... the Baha'is are not waiting for the old world order to crumble and then usher in a new world order?

Neither.

I would hope, that if God is real and the Baha'i Faith is from that God, that the Baha'i would usher in God's plan. But that plan seems to depend on when a big catastrophe hits and the governments and the people of the world have no choice but to turn to God's plan as outlined in the Baha'i writings. If that is not correct than what do Baha'is expect to happen? We could very well be on the brink of that catastrophe... the Baha'is have local, national and a world governing system in place. Isn't that part of the "new world order"?

We're always on the brink of a catastrophe. While it is true the Baha'is have regional, national and international governing bodies, so too do many other organizations. I've been an elected member of an assembly for many years. I must have missed the agenda item about the world order's imminent collapse and the take over plan.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Advise, even if it is good advice, is suspicious when it comes with a religious agenda.

Religions have become notorious, because of the scandals and because of extremists. I believe the Bahai Faith is different though.

 

[CG Didymus]

It sounds like the Baha'i plan is to wait for the world to fall apart, and then... whoever's left, to put the Baha'i plan into practice.

That is not true.

I would hope, that if God is real and the Baha'i Faith is from that God, that the Baha'i would usher in God's plan. But that plan seems to depend on when a big catastrophe hits and the governments and the people of the world have no choice but to turn to God's plan as outlined in the Baha'i writings. If that is not correct than what do Baha'is expect to happen? We could very well be on the brink of that catastrophe... the Baha'is have local, national and a world governing system in place. Isn't that part of the "new world order"?

We're always on the brink of a catastrophe. While it is true the Baha'is have regional, national and international governing bodies, so too do many other organizations. I've been an elected member of an assembly for many years. I must have missed the agenda item about the world order's imminent collapse and the take over plan.

This is what I'm basing that on...

The Baha’i teachings say that the world’s old order—its systems, governments and philosophies—will soon give way to a new one.

Shoghi Effendi, the Guardian of the Baha’i Faith, explained that the spiritual forces released into the world through the revelation of Baha’u’llah have set into motion two simultaneous processes: the destruction of the old world order and the birth of the new world order. These processes interact upon each other and affect all of humanity:

We are indeed living in an age which, if we would correctly appraise it, should be regarded as one which is witnessing a dual phenomenon. The first signalizes the death pangs of an order, effete and godless, that has stubbornly refused, despite the signs and portents of a century-old Revelation, to attune its processes to the precepts and ideals which that Heaven-sent Faith proffered it. The second proclaims the birth pangs of an Order, divine and redemptive, that will inevitably supplant the former, and within Whose administrative structure an embryonic civilization, incomparable and world-embracing, is imperceptibly maturing. The one is being rolled up, and is crashing in oppression, bloodshed, and ruin. The other opens up vistas of a justice, a unity, a peace, a culture, such as no age has ever seen. The former has spent its force, demonstrated its falsity and barrenness, lost irretrievably its opportunity, and is hurrying to its doom. The latter, virile and unconquerable, is plucking asunder its chains, and is vindicating its title to be the one refuge within which a sore-tried humanity, purged from its dross, can attain its destiny.

“Soon,” Baha’u’llah Himself has prophesied, “will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead.” And again: “By Myself! The day is approaching when We will have rolled up the world and all that is therein, and spread out a new Order in its stead.” – Shoghi Effendi, The Promised Day is Come, p. 17.
​

So... God has a plan. The way the world has been going isn't what God wants. But that old way is being rolled up and God's new plan of a new God-based world order will replace it? And that new plan is the one given to us by Baha'u'llah?

​

 

[ppp]

Religions have become notorious, because of the scandals and because of extremists. I believe the Bahai Faith is different though.

Religions are notorious because of the average everyday beliefs promulgated by the mainstream doctrines.

 

[CG Didymus]

Religions have become notorious, because of the scandals and because of extremists. I believe the Bahai Faith is different though.

The problems with religions have been because of people. Some religions have a God giving us rules. People have never been able to live up to or by those rules. Even the leaders of the religion can't live up to all the rules. Yet, some of the people and many of the leaders act as they are, which makes them hypocrites. Baha'is have rules supposedly sent by God. Baha'is are just people. Their leaders are just people. Will they be able to live up to all the rules? If not, then they will be breaking some of those rules. So, we will end up with the same situation... A religion that claims God is real... Says that they believe in God, yet even they can't and don't follow God's rules. But, no doubt, its leader will try and promote the need to follow those rules and put people into positions of authority to try and enforce those rules. And how exactly will the Baha'i Faith be different?

Oh, and is peace dependent on all people, especially its leaders, to follow those rules? And, since the lesser peace is a secular thing, people are going to be following Baha'i rules, so how do you get people to stop killing and stop hating? So, does real peace, what Baha'is call the "most great" peace, depend on all or most people to believe in or at least obey the rules given by God to the Baha'is?

 

[wellwisher]

World peace cannot appear using an extroverted approach. It requires an introverted approach.

In the West, for example, people try to find happiness making money, to buy things, that can push you button and make you happy. This may be a new car, a nice vacation, lake house, nice clothes, the latest iPhone, etc. The induction from things do not last, so we have to buy new things.

Although this can work for individuals with enough resources, there are not enough resources and things in the world, for everyone in the world to become happy this way. The limited world resources and the extroverted paths to happiness leads to conflict, as each person tries to gather more of the limited things needed to be happy. Others will end with nothing, and feel the opposite of happy.

The USA for many years, used a large fraction of the world resources to achieve a high standard of living. But even that did not make everyone in the USA happy. There still remained lots of need. This will never scale world wide because the rich wear out the buzz, and need more and more to get it back. This causes many too have too little to find happiness this way.

An introverted approach begins by each person adjusting their attitudes and POV, so you can find your own inner peace. We are all born with brains and big hearts. Each person is already equipped with the natural internal resources needed, without the need to steal, compete or pillage the earth. This is where God and religion comes in, since faith is an introspective attitude.

There is one God, but many faiths and religions. The differences in religion take into account the differences in ego development as a function of each culture. Different cultures create different secular and egocentric needs and the path to God is tweaked to balance these unique cultural differences. Religion and secular tend to evolve together due to this. There are many way to inner peace available, so each one of use can find our inner peace and then we all can meet there. This is called world peace.

 

[Dawnofhope]

This is what I'm basing that on...

The Baha’i teachings say that the world’s old order—its systems, governments and philosophies—will soon give way to a new one.

Shoghi Effendi, the Guardian of the Baha’i Faith, explained that the spiritual forces released into the world through the revelation of Baha’u’llah have set into motion two simultaneous processes: the destruction of the old world order and the birth of the new world order. These processes interact upon each other and affect all of humanity:

We are indeed living in an age which, if we would correctly appraise it, should be regarded as one which is witnessing a dual phenomenon. The first signalizes the death pangs of an order, effete and godless, that has stubbornly refused, despite the signs and portents of a century-old Revelation, to attune its processes to the precepts and ideals which that Heaven-sent Faith proffered it. The second proclaims the birth pangs of an Order, divine and redemptive, that will inevitably supplant the former, and within Whose administrative structure an embryonic civilization, incomparable and world-embracing, is imperceptibly maturing. The one is being rolled up, and is crashing in oppression, bloodshed, and ruin. The other opens up vistas of a justice, a unity, a peace, a culture, such as no age has ever seen. The former has spent its force, demonstrated its falsity and barrenness, lost irretrievably its opportunity, and is hurrying to its doom. The latter, virile and unconquerable, is plucking asunder its chains, and is vindicating its title to be the one refuge within which a sore-tried humanity, purged from its dross, can attain its destiny.

“Soon,” Baha’u’llah Himself has prophesied, “will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead.” And again: “By Myself! The day is approaching when We will have rolled up the world and all that is therein, and spread out a new Order in its stead.” – Shoghi Effendi, The Promised Day is Come, p. 17.
​

So... God has a plan. The way the world has been going isn't what God wants. But that old way is being rolled up and God's new plan of a new God-based world order will replace it? And that new plan is the one given to us by Baha'u'llah?

​

The dual processes of decay and construction are certainly characteristics of world affairs. Consider the rise of democratic institutions and the waning power of the European Colonial empires that existed before 1914. Consider the increased involvement of women and ethnic minorities in decision making at all levels. Consider the rise of international organizations such as the United Nations since the nineteenth century. What we are discussing is a process not an event.

Have we arrived at a utopian world where peace is universal? Clearly not, however we've come a long way since the nineteenth century when Baha’u’llah brought a new religion and outlined the needs for humanity.

Bahai principles include:

1/ Equality of men and women
2/ Racial equality
3/ The Oneness of humanity
4/ An administrative order based on democratic principle
5/ The need for international cooperation and reconciliation

 

[ppp]

The dual processes of decay and construction are certainly characteristics of world affairs. Consider the rise of democratic institutions and the waning power of the European Colonial empires that existed before 1914. Consider the increased involvement of women and ethnic minorities in decision making at all levels. Consider the rise of international organizations such as the United Nations since the nineteenth century. What we are discussing is a process not an event.

Have we arrived at a utopian world where peace is universal? Clearly not, however we've come a long way since the nineteenth century when Baha’u’llah brought a new religion and outlined the needs for humanity.

Bahai principles include:

1/ Equality of men and women
2/ Racial equality
3/ The Oneness of humanity
4/ An administrative order based on democratic principle
5/ The need for international cooperation and reconciliation

Considering the fact that women are barred from the highest roles of governance in Baha'i, that first principle is merely a facade.

And of course there is the bahai discrimination against gay people.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Considering the fact that women are barred from the highest roles of governance in Baha'i, that first principle is merely a facade.

The Baha'i community has excellent representation of women at all levels of our administration, the one exception being the Universal House of Justice.

And of course there is the bahai discrimination against gay people.

As with the Teachings of Judaism, Christianity and Islam before us, marriage according to our understanding of God's law is between a man and a women.

 

[ppp]

The Baha'i community has excellent representation of women at all levels of our administration, the one exception being the Universal House of Justice.

I don't see how that's different from what I just said. Women are barred from the highest roles in bahai. Therefore the equality of men and women is a facade.

As with the Teachings of Judaism, Christianity and Islam before us, marriage according to our understanding of God's law is between a man and a women.

Citing three discriminatory religious traditions does not make yours non-discriminatory.

 

[Heyo]

I don't see how that's different from what I just said. Women are barred from the highest roles in bahai. Therefore the equality of men and women is a facade.


Citing three discriminatory religious traditions does not make yours non-discriminatory.

Is this still about world peace or is this thread now officially derailed?

 

[ppp]

Is this still about world peace or is this thread now officially derailed?

Peace between individuals or groups requires that both possess empathy, critical self-reflection, and the ability to own their own $&#* fecal matter. So, yeah. I think it is still on topic.

 

[CG Didymus]

Considering the fact that women are barred from the highest roles of governance in Baha'i, that first principle is merely a facade.

And of course there is the bahai discrimination against gay people.

Here's a quote from the Baha'i peace statement about woman....

The emancipation of women, the achievement of full equality between the sexes, is one of the most important, though less acknowledged prerequisites of peace. The denial of such equality perpetrates an injustice against one half of the world’s population and promotes in men harmful attitudes and habits that are carried from the family to the workplace, to political life, and ultimately to international relations. There are no grounds, moral, practical, or biological, upon which such denial can be justified. Only as women are welcomed into full partnership in all fields of human endeavour will the moral and psychological climate be created in which international peace can emerge.
​

Strange that, if we believe the Scriptures, it was God put woman subordinate to men. God almost fixed this with the Baha'i Faith, but for some reason made it only men on their Universal House of Justice. If we do follow the Baha'i peace plan and elect a world tribunal, what will the Baha'i Faith recommend? Men only? Or will it be okay to have women serve on it?

But has the road to equality for the races and genders been a peaceful one? Kind of ironic that the Baha'is say equality of the races and sexes is a prerequisite to peace, but God was okay with them having to fight and to still be fighting for equality. But then what do Baha'is do with gays?

No matter how devoted and fine the love may be between people of the same sex, to let it find expression in sexual acts is wrong. To say that it is ideal is no excuse. Immorality of every sort is really forbidden by Bahá'u'lláh, and homosexual relationships He looks upon as such, besides being against nature.

To be afflicted this way in a great burden to a conscientious soul. But through the advice and help of doctors, through a strong and determined effort, and through prayer, a soul can overcome this handicap.(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, March 26, 1950; cited in LG, #1223, p. 365; and in the annotation on p. 223 to paragraph 107 of the Kitab-i-Aqdas)

A number of sexual problems, such as homosexuality and trans- sexuality can well have medical aspects, and in such cases recourse should certainly be had to the best medical assistance. But it is clear from the teaching of Bahá'u'lláh that homosexuality is not a condition to which a person should be reconciled, but is a distortion of his or her nature which should be controlled or overcome. This may require a hard struggle, but so also can be the struggle of a heterosexual person to control his or her desires. The exercise of self-control in this, as in so very many other aspects of life, has a beneficial effect on the progress of the soul. (From a letter of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer, January 12, 1973; cited in Messages from the Universal House of Justice, 1968- 1973, pp. 110-111; also cited in LG, #1222, p. 365
​

In Baha'u'llah's time I'd imagine that homosexuality was not something that most any religion could declare as being okay and normal behavior. But what about now? If the Baha'i Faith is the truth from God, it is not normal. Secular society has given them equal rights, but not some religions. So, what will a peaceful, united world look like if it adopts the laws of God? No drinking, no drugs, no sex of any kind outside of a marriage between a man and a woman.... very few weapons and maybe eventually no weapons? Sounds like a perfect world... unless you like drinking, drugs, sex and guns. So, I don't see how God is going to get those people, who could be the majority, to follow his laws?

 

[CG Didymus]

Is this still about world peace or is this thread now officially derailed?

It's specifically about the Baha'i peace plan. Which, if the Baha'i Faith is true and from God, then their peace plan has come directly, in a very indirect way, from God himself. Lots of us have been arguing/debating with Baha'is on whether their religion is true, whether their prophets is really what Baha'is call a "manifestation" of God, which means they are part human part divine, and then the usual one, is God even real.

None of those threads ever gets anywhere. God can't be proven. Believing in Baha'u'llah comes down to "faith", which means taking his word for it... that God sent him. So, what I was hoping for was to talk about what they actually say. Which is that peace is possible and inevitable.... all we got to do is follow God's plan. I'm not so sure it can work. It depends too much on people becoming more spiritualized. But if all of us don't get all holy, then what? Some of the leaders of the world were sent a message from Baha'u'llah pretty much saying that if you follow me there will be peace on Earth. It got rejected.

My understanding of the Baha'i Faith is that now the world is going to go through a whole bunch of horrible things until it "sees" the light and turns to the Baha'i Faith. And that gets us to the "lesser" peace, which then in time leads us to some golden era, the most great peace. Sounds too good to be true. Which makes me skeptical. But Baha'is have unwavering faith that God will keep his promise.