syo
Well-Known Member
No. Illuminati won't approve of world peace. They'll keep us divided with hate etc.
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World Peace is Possible and Will Happen
- Thread starter CG Didymus
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I'm posting here because the other thread has nothing to do with the Baha'i Faith or world peace. It is largely derailed now anyhow.
The Baha'i administrative order is certainly an example of a peaceful unified international community from most localities around. Although we are small in numbers compared to Christianity and Islam, we have never started any wars, promoted terrorism or tried to overthrow any government.
For me, the power of the Baha’i Faith is the transformative effects it can have on the lives of those who believe in Baha'u'llah and endeavour to put His Teachings into practice.
So the opportunity to create peace is within our own communities, through the example of our lives and the service we provide.
We don't seek to run for political office much less upsurp the authority of any government.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Here's another quote from the peace statement....
The experience of the Bahá’í community may be seen as an example of this enlarging unity. It is a community of some three to four million people drawn from many nations, cultures, classes and creeds, engaged in a wide range of activities serving the spiritual, social and economic needs of the peoples of many lands. It is a single social organism, representative of the diversity of the human family, conducting its affairs through a system of commonly accepted consultative principles, and cherishing equally all the great outpourings of divine guidance in human history. Its existence is yet another convincing proof of the practicality of its Founder’s vision of a united world, another evidence that humanity can live as one global society, equal to whatever challenges its coming of age may entail. If the Bahá’í experience can contribute in whatever measure to reinforcing hope in the unity of the human race, we are happy to offer it as a model for study.
But what does the Baha'i leadership do with those that don't obey the chain of command as spelled out in the covenant? The "vision" it says is for a united world. Baha'is are people that have all declared their belief in Baha'u'llah and have obligated themselves to obey Baha'i laws. Unless everyone in the world becomes Baha'is, a unified world is going to have too many diverse beliefs and factions to ever become "one".
And, since the lesser peace is run by a secular government, there will probably be laws prohibiting any one religion becoming the "state" religion. Will Islamic countries ever agree to that? But, even if everyone in the world agrees to obey this world tribunal, can a secular government bring peace?
Most of what Baha'is do or fail to do is between themselves and God. Baha'i Assemblies don't check up on who is saying prayers and reading from the writings. We don't monitor who is giving to the Baha'i fund and ask Baha'is why they aren't donating enough. We're not monitoring whether someone is a conservative or democratic Baha'i. The point where Assemblies will intervene is flagrant law breaking that would bring the faith into disrepute.
The point where a government might become a Baha'i government would require a majority Baha'i population. That's unlikely to happen anytime soon. When it does, the viability or otherwise of such a model will be clear for all to see.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Another Godly failure. By jeus, if any one made that many failures in football or cricket, he would be thrown out of the team.
Correction: Personal agenda - Accept me over all earlier ones, as the new 'manifestation' of Allah. Also accept my son as my successor and he will appoint his successor.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Yet people get their voting rights taken away and some get declared as "covenant breakers" and are shunned by the Baha'is. That is what I was talking about.
So, of course there is unity because all those people that cause disunity within the Baha'i Faith are gotten rid of.
Then this question... The Baha'i model doesn't apply to a world that has several different religions plus so many non-religious people. How do you create unity in that kind of diversity?
And within that diverse world there are religions that might not agree to be ruled by a world tribunal. So, can such a thing as the "lesser" peace actually work?
It is extremely rare for someone to be labelled a Covenant breaker.
All reasonable steps are taken to assist someone work through their issue in regards breaking Baha'i law.
You make it sound as if there are a lot of people that have removed. What is your evidence? It looks like a misrepresentation of the Baha'i Faith to me.
The fact is diverse peoples can and do co-exist together in civil society regardless. It is about respecting diversity.
As with any country, there is a need for all to follow basic laws. The same approach applies internationally. We can all see the results today when countries do not respect international law.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
All I'm saying is that no matter male or female, no matter what race or what religion a person used to be... now that they are Baha'is, those differences no longer are supposed to cause division. But in a non-Baha'i world those things still are the cause of division.
Yes, if everyone subscribes to the beliefs of the Baha'is Faith, but they don't. And the lesser peace is not a Baha'i thing or a religious thing. It is a secular thing. So how are different people with different cultures, different religions, different politics etc going to get along with each other? In the U.S. right now, there is no respect for people in the opposing political party. So, I don't see how the Baha'i plan can ever work without all people believing in the Baha'i Faith.
With everybody being Baha'is, yes everyone will love and respect each other and the Baha'i model can work. With everybody being in different religions and nations and cultures and political parties... people aren't going to get along.
Oh, is there some kind of block on your thread to keep me from replying to posts?
Applying Baha'i Teachings and principles can enable anyone to overcome prejudices and bias. The reality is that Baha'i principles are now accepted by most people. The equality of men and women and recognizing we are all equals in regardless of race is widely accepted throughout the West by many.
Baha'is such as myself, don't think about us and them. We are all one people regardless of our background. My wife is not Baha'i and most of my employees are not. We all get along just fine.
I do not believe unity is possible with the current political environment in the USA. Baha'is can make a difference in their communities but should avoid getting involved in partisan politics. There are complex issues behind the current political climate. The answer is promoting spirituality at the grass roots community level rather than infiltrating the centres of power and taking a top down approach.
Being a Baha'i is not necessary to create unity.
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CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Can we apply the principles of all the other religions and get the same results?
When it comes to equality of men and women, religious beliefs have been used to keep women in subordinate roles. So, how much was it people listening to and following Baha'i teachings about the equality of men and woman? And how much of it was secular society saying that enough is enough and got rid of bias and prejudices that were supported by religions?
Yes, it is very complex. Some people want some changes made and they have a leader, and they have guns. Then other people want change, but in a different direction. And their leaders aren't as big and powerful as the leader of the other people.
But without the Baha'i principles, why would a Christian or a Muslim or anyone else believe in the "oneness" of all people? They have their own ideas on what is true and what is false. I know some Christians who are dead set against world unity. They believe the anti-Christ is the one that will try and create a world government.
I've got questions, but it's not something I need to argue over. If they think I broke a rule and have blocked me out of that thread, then fine.
Religions often do have more in common than many adherents like to admit, especially with principles such as love, compassion, truth and justice.
The equality of men and women apparently was something religions of old did not promote, particularly amongst the Abrahamics. It is something that is an essential characteristic of the age we live in.
When one party makes claims about the election being stolen with no evidence and is unwilling to graciously concede they lost, unity is not possible. Unity is founded on truth.
Yet the Bible clearly envisages a time of peace on earth for all.
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CG Didymus
Veteran Member
But this shows how one group can believe it has the truth based on what their leader says. Mix in some conspiracy theories and the support of most all of his party's leaders, and we have a bunch of people that are ready to fight for that imagined truth. And is the other political party all that innocent?
On a world scale can liberals, conservatives, and all these other groupings that separate us be brought down to a level in which they can respect and trust each other? I'm afraid a world tribunal will still be slanted to either the right or left enough for those that don't have the majority will find ways to try and get themselves into a position of power where they decide what the laws and rules should be.
Interestingly Republicans and Democrats have found common ground in their respective stances against the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Some key legislation has received bipartisan support. So I think its possible for opposing political parties to work together. The electrol and democratic system does have obvious flaws that encourages unhealthy competition and adversarial behaviours.
Same deal with the United Nations and associated international agencies. It is clear to many of us the need for good governance and reform of existing institutions.
Whenever I feel frustrated with the existing order, I think about how much progress we've made since the nineteenth century and the model of something better the Baha'i community provides.
I do feel positively about humanity and where we're heading. You don't have to be a Baha'i to feel the same way but it certainly helps in my experience.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
The question is... How do we get to the lesser peace without people believing in the oneness of humanity, and religion and God? Those basic beliefs bond Baha'is together, plus they are committed to following the Baha'is laws and any decision the UHJ makes.
In the U.S. it's democrats and republicans, but we're talking about uniting all people and all nations, so that includes Communists, Socialists, the various religious fundamentalists and who knows who else is out there. I don't think these people will accept the idea of having a world tribunal whose decisions are final.
The other important question I have for Baha'is is the disasters that are predicted. If the world is plunged into total chaos, then I could see how the people of the world would have no other choice but to cooperate. Is it, according to Baha'i beliefs, a sure thing and is what is going to happen... and is what is going to be necessary to get people to unite?
First we need to be clear what the lesser peace means and what it doesn't.
Bahá'u'lláh has related the Lesser Peace to the gathering together of world leaders at a convocation in which measures for unity and concord would be devised.
We pray God--exalted be His glory--and cherish the hope that He may graciously assist the manifestations of affluence and power and the daysprings of sovereignty and glory, the kings of the earth--may God aid them through His strengthening grace--to establish the Lesser Peace. This, indeed, is the greatest means for insuring the tranquillity of the nations. It is incumbent upon the Sovereigns of the world--may God assist them--unitedly to hold fast unto this Peace, which is the chief instrument for the protection of all mankind. It is Our hope that they will arise to achieve what will be conducive to the well-being of man. It is their duty to convene an all-inclusive assembly, which either they themselves or their ministers will attend, and to enforce whatever measures are required to establish unity and concord amongst men. They must put away the weapons of war, and turn to the instruments of universal reconstruction. Should one king rise up against another, all the other kings must arise to deter him. Arms and armaments will, then, be no more needed beyond that which is necessary to insure the internal security of their respective countries. If they attain unto this all-surpassing blessing, the people of each nation will pursue, with tranquillity and contentment, their own occupations, and the groanings and lamentations of most men would be silenced.[3]
The theme of a gathering to deliberate on the measures required for an enduring world peace is referred to in several other places in the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, including:
The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world's Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation.[4]
Subsequently `Abdu'l-Bahá specified one of the outcomes of this convocation to be a comprehensive treaty, the provisions of which would be binding on all governments:
True civilization will unfurl its banner in the midmost heart of the world whenever a certain number of its distinguished and high-minded sovereigns--the shining exemplars of devotion and determination--shall, for the good and happiness of all mankind, arise, with firm resolve and clear vision, to establish the Cause of Universal Peace. They must make the Cause of Peace the object of general consultation, and seek by every means in their power to establish a Union of the nations of the world. They must conclude a binding treaty and establish a covenant, the provisions of which shall be sound, inviolable and definite. They must proclaim it to all the world and obtain for it the sanction of all the human race. This supreme and noble undertaking--the real source of the peace and well-being of all the world--should be regarded as sacred by all that dwell on earth. All the forces of humanity must be mobilized to ensure the stability and permanence of this Most Great Covenant. In this all-embracing Pact the limits and frontiers of each and every nation should be clearly fixed, the principles underlying the relations of governments towards one another definitely laid down, and all international agreements and obligations ascertained. In like manner, the size of the armaments of every government should be strictly limited, for if the preparations for war and the military forces of any nation should be allowed to increase, they will arouse the suspicion of others. The fundamental principle underlying this solemn Pact should be so fixed that if any government later violate any one of its provisions, all the governments on earth should arise to reduce it to utter submission, nay the human race as a whole should resolve, with every power at its disposal, to destroy that government. Should this greatest of all remedies be applied to the sick body of the world, it will assuredly recover from its ills and will remain eternally safe and secure.[5]
Attainment of the Unity of Nations and the Lesser Peace
Clearly the lesser peace is not dependent on any agreement about religion. It does require some understanding that we are all one people.
The League of Nations was established after WW1. The United Nations was established after WW2. The lead up to the end of the twentieth century witnessed many global conferences dedicated towards peace, Regardless, clearly according to the lesser peace envisaged by Baha'u'llah and 'Abdu'l-Baha above we have not yet arrived at the lesser peace. However, a great deal of progress has been made since the establishment of the League of Nations over one hundred years ago.
There are currently some key major global processes and events that are center stage in the media that are relevant to humanity moving towards or away from the principles that define the lesser peace.
1/ The Russian invasion of Ukraine
2/ The dispute over sovereignty of Taiwan
3/ The upcoming elections in the USA
4/ Negotiations between the Iran and various Western countries about nuclear armaments
5/ North Korea's nuclear arms programme
None of this depends on agreement about religion. It does require a shift in mindset where we recognise that what happens in the Ukraine, Taiwan, Iran, North Korea and the USA affects us all. Communism (as opposed to socialism) and religious fundamentalism are barriers to peace. The United Nations with its various axillary bodies and international agreements continue to develop regardless.
As to a time frame and catastrophic world events:
In the letter of 29 July 1996 sent on its behalf in reply to that individual, the House of Justice wrote:
Clearly, the emergence of the Lesser Peace will be a gradual process and its various stages will no doubt witness tests and setbacks, as well as great advances. It will certainly include, however, a development of historic importance: that point at which the majority of the world's nation-states formally commit themselves to a global order comprising institutions and laws, and equipped with the means by which collective decisions can be enforced. While we cannot at present foresee the precise form that this development will take, much less the point at which it will occur, we recognize that it is a feature of the process of the Lesser Peace.
Attainment of the Unity of Nations and the Lesser Peace
We wish to remind the community that explicit predictions pertaining to the date of the Lesser Peace’s establishment are not found in the writings of the Faith, nor does the House of Justice predict future events. What is clear from the writings is that the Lesser Peace is a process and one that is not directly tied to the activities of the Bahá’ís.
NSA of the United States to the American Bahá’í Community, Sept. 29, 2011
Lesser Peace | Bahá’í Quotes
The Baha'i Faith is an example as what is possible CG.
Take a look for instance what unity can do in India, a place where diversity is as evident as the noon day sun.
This is how faith unfolds, individuala, families and then communities one at a time, until that reality becomes the longing of the majority.
Regards Tony
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I haven't gotten to your other post yet, but I have a comment about this. People do unite over a common problem or enemy. Unfortunately, some people invent reasons to make other people their enemy. And that ties in with what Tony said...
Yes, I agree. If everybody accepted the Baha'i teachings, they would all get along and have no reasons to hold prejudices against other people. However, if they don't believe that Baha'u'llah is from God, or that there is a God, or that their religion is true and all the other have problems or that those other religions are false, then there's lots of reason not to trust other people. One religion can, and some do, make people in some of the other religions the enemy.
But, in a way, even Baha'is say things that makes the other religions an enemy. Baha'is say that they are the fulfillment of all the other religions. By doing that, those other religions can feel threatened. They can feel that the Baha'i Faith has come to try and replace them. And, in a way, they are right, aren't they?
Baha'is try and explain that God's plan is for all religions to someday get replaced. But each religion has beliefs about how theirs will last forever. Or will be renewed but not replaced. Which actually is more like what the Baha'is say is happening... that the old religions are getting renewed. But, to the older religions, it is more like they are being replaced, because they are told that their old beliefs no longer work and that the original true teachings have been lost. So, that pretty much makes it necessary to do away with that old religion.
So sure, people that read about the Baha'i Faith and accept it as true are all unified in their beliefs. And the world can become just as unified as the Baha'is.... But doesn't it require them to essentially become Baha'is? Which means, for the sake of unity, to stop believing in those things that divide us. And our old religious beliefs are one of those things that divide us. And how you going to get people in all the other religions to do that?
I would offer that is the history of Faith CG. All Messages have given at a time when the people need them the most, the times when by our deeds and actions, we have proven that we have turned away from God. Those choices bring great destruction and despair to the multitudes.
There is no other way we can change unless we confront the errors within our own selves and that error can be born out of good intentions.
All the Native peoples in many lands have tasted the error of supposedly good intentions.
It appears we need great destruction to show that even considering to make a bomb is not a Godly intent, let alone drop one on another soul.
Regards Tony
The things that divide us are not from God CG.
So if we see a cause of division, lets study why that has become so? We would soon find that there is a diversity of understanding on that topic and that the division is our own perceptions, born out of our own desires in this reality.
Regards Tony
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is real. It is not invented or imagined.
That is true.
That is victim blaming.
That is a calculated and distorted version of what is happening.
The very old become frail and die while the young grow stronger and mature. That is the natural order. You can not pour new wine into old wineskins. Mark 2:22