Would anyone care to prove that 'love' exists?

[Primordial Annihilator]

Love is attachment...nothing more.

 

[Father Heathen]

Perhaps beginning with a definition that is historically consistent, acceptable to all and followed by empirical data that proves ‘love’ exists?

(Please....No &#8216;experiential&#8217; or &#8216;faith&#8217; statements...just the scientific >facts<)
(PS...Brain Scans showing people 'experiencing love'?....they have those for 'experiencing God' too ;-)

Unlike god, emotions can be observed and experienced.

Please invest more thought into your analogies in the future.

 

[Father Heathen]

Love is attachment...nothing more.

Is empathy also attachment?

 

[Wombat]

Unlike god, emotions can be observed and experienced..

Again?

No. We can observe the claim or behaviour (the "display") that is said to stem from the emotion but we cannot "observe" the emotion itself.
We can "experience" an emotion but we cannot >prove< to others that what we are displaying reflects the emotion we claim to experience. We may be acting, we may be deceiving (ourselves/others), we may simply be wrong about our interpretation
of our own emotional experience....many people often are.

Just as emotions can only be seen as a display in the world God can only be seen in the same (loving) display in the world and of the world.
Both love and God can be experienced...not proven.
It's 'funny' that way........but 'funny' cannot be proven either...just experienced ;-)

"Please invest more thought into your analogies in the future.

I extend the same invitation to you in relation to reading the post and ground already well covered

 

[linwood]

Perhaps beginning with a definition that is historically consistent, acceptable to all and followed by empirical data that proves ‘love’ exists?[/SIZE][/FONT]

I`ll have a go...

love |l&#601;v|
noun
1 an intense feeling of deep affection : babies fill parents with intense feelings of love | their love for their country.
• a deep romantic or sexual attachment to someone : it was love at first sight | they were both in love with her | we were slowly falling in love.

Recent studies on monogamy in mammals have focussed on the endorphins, vasopressin and oxytocin. Endorphins are neuromodulators in that they can effect the rate at which nerves fire. Oxytocin serves several functions in the body including control over uterine contractions, cervical softening, and penile erection in the male. Other oxytocin-receptive nerves act in the modulation of pain as well. Vasopressin typically is known for action in the cerebral cortex aiding in memory. These endorphin studies have centered on the vole, a tiny mouse-like rodent that lives in the Midwest United States. Two species of voles, although similar in most respects, differ greatly in terms of mating habits. Prairie voles are extremely monogamous. A pair will share the same burrow-nest, cooperate in raising young, show distress if separated, and spend most of their lives side by side. Even if one of the pair dies, the other rarely finds another mate. The counterpart to the prairie vole is the montane vole. The mountainous rodent is promiscuous, only maternally parental, and appears to be ambivalent to isolation.

Initial investigations showed that prairie vole females did not form a bond with a male until after mating. When the body makes a protein it must first make a portable copy or transcribe the instructions provided by the DNA encoded gene. This copy carries the instruction outside of the cell nucleus where it can be turned translated into a protein. These portable instructions are called messenger RNA (mRNA). Prairie vole females also showed an increase in oxytocin mRNA after mating. Such an increase infers that the body is making more of the oxytocin protein. Montane females showed no such increase. This information led researchers to believe oxytocin could be the key to their monogamy. Prairie vole females injected with oxytocin antagonists before mating did not develop any sort of bond with very hurt and confused males. Females injected with oxytocin developed bonds with males in their presence in spite of never mating. The same experiments were conducted in male prairie voles using vasopressin and its antagonist. Males produced the same results as the females. Montane voles showed no reaction to the injections, although the male vole increased self-grooming greatly with the vasopressin injection. Thus, in a species far monogamous than humans, the source of undying "love" was found to be no more than the release of a single polypeptide.

http://www.brookscole.com/chemistry...urces/0030244269_campbell/HotTopics/Love.html

 

[linwood]

To the objective it doesn't.
So?

Simply untrue, I know no person more hindered by objectivism than I.

 

[Danmac]

Perhaps beginning with a definition that is historically consistent, acceptable to all and followed by empirical data that proves ‘love’ exists?

(Please....No ‘experiential’ or ‘faith’ statements...just the scientific >facts<)
(PS...Brain Scans showing people 'experiencing love'?....they have those for 'experiencing God' too ;-)

Love is not an emotion, it is a display of selfless sacrifice. John 3:16

 

[Wombat]

Love is not an emotion, it is a display of selfless sacrifice. John 3:16

Thanks for that. It echos the definition I have been inclined towards-
Love is a preparedness to do for others...often in the absence of positive emotion or in spite of negative emotion.

 

[anti-gary]

Perhaps beginning with a definition that is historically consistent, acceptable to all and followed by empirical data that proves ‘love’ exists?

(Please....No ‘experiential’ or ‘faith’ statements...just the scientific >facts<)
(PS...Brain Scans showing people 'experiencing love'?....they have those for 'experiencing God' too ;-)

I think Love exsists, however i don't think that brain scans showing that you are connected to God is true.. We would be taught about all of that at School if it was...

 

[Wombat]

I`ll have a go...

Thanks for the effort...I appreciate it.
Endorphins, vasopressin and oxytocins have already been mentioned (but only in relation to humans and not the lovely and loving Vole ;-)-
&#8220;...newly &#8216;love struck&#8217; couples (had) their brains examined and discovered they have high levels of the neurotransmitter dopamine. This chemical stimulates &#8216;desire and reward&#8217; by triggering an intense rush of pleasure. It has the same effect on the brain as taking cocaine!&#8221;

I am delighted to hear that- &#8220;the source of undying "love" was found to be no more than the release of a single polypeptide.&#8221;

Have we as yet determined that (in accord with your definition) the polypeptide gave the Voles &#8220;an intense feeling of deep affection&#8221;?

That they have &#8220;love for their country&#8221; (Voleland) is an unquestionable certainty.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Is empathy also attachment?

Not really..it is emulation...but that brings perspective and possibly attachment.

 

[Willamena]

Not really..it is emulation...but that brings perspective and possibly attachment.

Some would say that the former springs from the latter. But no matter.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Some would say that the former springs from the latter. But no matter.

Some might...but not me...

 

[chinu]

Some might...but not me...

I also.

 

[Danmac]

Thanks for that. It echos the definition I have been inclined towards-
Love is a preparedness to do for others...often in the absence of positive emotion or in spite of negative emotion.

Sometimes love is displayed thru painful discipline.

 

[linwood]

Thanks for the effort...I appreciate it.
Endorphins, vasopressin and oxytocins have already been mentioned (but only in relation to humans and not the lovely and loving Vole ;-)-
“...newly ‘love struck’ couples (had) their brains examined and discovered they have high levels of the neurotransmitter dopamine. This chemical stimulates ‘desire and reward’ by triggering an intense rush of pleasure. It has the same effect on the brain as taking cocaine!”

I am delighted to hear that- “the source of undying "love" was found to be no more than the release of a single polypeptide.”

Have we as yet determined that (in accord with your definition) the polypeptide gave the Voles “an intense feeling of deep affection”?

That they have “love for their country” (Voleland) is an unquestionable certainty.

It seems now you are moving those goal posts.

Is it troubling to you that emotion in general has been evidenced to be complex chemical reactions in neural networks?

If so...why?

 

[Wombat]

It seems now you are moving those goal posts.

How so? In what way? Where to?

Is it troubling to you that emotion in general has been evidenced to be complex chemical reactions in neural networks?.

Not at all. I was expressing the "general emotions"- 'delight' and 'humour'.

I'm not sure if it could be demonstrated that the Vole information evoked a series of
"complex chemical reactions in (my) neural networks" resulting in my (claimed but unproven) experience of the emotion 'humor'....or....I experienced humor prompted by the Voles and a series of "complex chemical reactions in (my) neural networks" ensued?

To say it is a 'Chicken or the Egg' scenario would simply cloud the Vole issue factor.

Suffice to say I found the information and implications 'funny'....but I cannot prove it was funny, nor prove I experienced the general emotions associated with 'funny'.

If so...why?

Not "troubling".
Feeling fine and having a wonderful time.
Happy and loving it.
I just can't 'prove' it.

 

[Wombat]

Sometimes love is displayed thru painful discipline.

Ahhhhhhhhhhh!........I see you have or have had or have been associated with-
'Teenage Children'.

 

[ellenjanuary]

To draw one or two more Gwynnies; should be enough to finish shorting this brain right out. Straightjacket, blue crayon held in my toes, drawing her likeness with a mind unable to code language. Heaven on earth.

 

[Wombat]

A great lesson in philosophy:
Sophie's World: A Novel About the History of Philosophy: Amazon.co.uk: Jostein Gaarder: Books

Well, I enjoyed it.

I bought it for my adolescent daughter Sophie...she didn't (enjoy it)...found the idea of anonymous letters in the letter box “creepy”, found the philosophical approach to the God question “puerile” and “adolescent”.

Can’t win em all ;-)