Would anyone care to prove that 'love' exists?

[crocusj]

"Love" is being in relation that attracts. Everything loves everything else --like the way company is well loved by misery. It's antithesis is "hate", which is being in relation that repells. Everything also hates everything --like the way misery is repelled by company.
"Definition" is to give form and meaning to something.
"Empirical data" is information gathered through observation, experience and experimentation.
"Evidence" is a bit of information that serves as an indicator of a thing.
"Proof" is that bit of evidence that convinces one of the truth of a thing.
And finally, "existence" is the axiomatic acceptance of being, i.e. to be.

So... the proof that "love" exists is that bit of evidential information that convinces one that being in an attraction relation to other-being should be axiomatically accepted. Well, here's me... There's you...

See, for me that's too far, though I know it's what the OP is asking for. I think the opposite of love is not hate but no love. For me the proof that love exists is that I know when I love and I know when I don't, I have no control over either and hate is not in the equation. Love thy enemy?...impossible, it's not a control thing, it's an emotion.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Is it possible to act with love towards someone for whom you have no "attachment"? A total stranger?

If you act with love then you must have some attachment...(idealistic attachment for your fellow man).

Is it possible to act with love towards someone who repulses you? Or towards someone you hate/hates you?

If you are attached to either them out of compassion (attachment to those that are suffering, humans will instinctively assist each other if they can) or something/someone else that you wish to please (proxy attachment)

Can acting with love transcend "attachment" and/or negative emotion?

No love is attachment...it is a human emotion...nothing more.

 

[Willamena]

See, for me that's too far, though I know it's what the OP is asking for. I think the opposite of love is not hate but no love.

I can see that. But the trouble with it is that not-the-thing could be "opposite" for literally everything --even "opposite" has a not-the-thing, which robs the opposite of all its fun. "Calmness," "peace" or some equivalent, as opposite of love, in regard to emotion and motion, works well because it is not "no love," it's just not love. (And anything "not love" is fair game to be put in opposition to "love".)

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

I can see that. But the trouble with it is that not-the-thing could be "opposite" for literally everything --even "opposite" has a not-the-thing, which robs the opposite of all its fun. "Calmness," "peace" or some equivalent, as opposite of love, in regard to emotion and motion, works well because it is not "no love," it's just not love. (And anything "not love" is fair game to be put in opposition to "love".)

Come again?

My understanding of philosophy is pathetic.

 

[crocusj]

I can see that. But the trouble with it is that not-the-thing could be "opposite" for literally everything --even "opposite" has a not-the-thing, which robs the opposite of all its fun. "Calmness," "peace" or some equivalent, as opposite of love, in regard to emotion and motion, works well because it is not "no love," it's just not love. (And anything "not love" is fair game to be put in opposition to "love".)

Ok ok, I just think that hate is a different thing entirely to love (and I don't mean opposite!) and I do know that when love is unrequited it is most definitely is the opposite....from distant memory.

 

[Willamena]

Ok ok, I just think that hate is a different thing entirely to love (and I don't mean opposite!) and I do know that when love is unrequited it is most definitely is the opposite....from distant memory.

Fair enough.

 

[Willamena]

Ouch. Can I please have my English language back?

No; but then I didn't take yours.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Ok ok, I just think that hate is a different thing entirely to love (and I don't mean opposite!) and I do know that when love is unrequited it is most definitely is the opposite....from distant memory.

The fine line between love and hatred is very blurred....

They are both forms of attachment...the latter is just negatively so.

 

[Willamena]

Come again?

My understanding of philosophy is pathetic.

Things exist.

Nothing (the not-thing) doesn't.

Hope this helps.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Things exist.

Nothing (the not-thing) doesn't.

Hope this helps.

Hmmm the absence of something is non existence of the thing...?

If thats what your saying..I agree..I think.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Dont matter Wiilamena..teaching me philosophy is like teaching Cats to swim...

Difficult and basically pointless.

 

[Willamena]

Hmmm the absence of something is non existence of the thing...?

If thats what your saying..I agree..I think.

Meet my monkey!

Difficult and basically pointless.

There's a philosophy for that, too.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

There's a philosophy for that, too.

I do love philosophy...but my mind is about as logical and orderly as a bucket of Frogs.
Strangely I have no problems with Math...which I also love ( am attached to)

 

[Willamena]

A great lesson in philosophy:
Sophie's World: A Novel About the History of Philosophy: Amazon.co.uk: Jostein Gaarder: Books

Well, I enjoyed it.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Well, I enjoyed it.

Thats very philosophical of you...

I will have a look fer it..ty.

 

[crocusj]

The fine line between love and hatred is very blurred....

They are both forms of attachment...the latter is just negatively so.

As I mentioned earlier, people kill for love and that seems pretty negative to me. Love can be positive or negative. Likewise, is it negative to hate racism. I think because we appear capable of hating someone we once loved and vice versa we see that as a fine line and certainly emotions can be blurry at those times but if you ask yourself or are tested whether you love or not you will know.

 

[Wombat]

Oh, so you don't even accept that people have feelings? .

Again. That's not what I said. Your either having trouble reading "complicated" and "confusing sentences"...or obfuscating with misrepresentation. I said- "No we cannot prove that "people have the feelings"....that is not to deny that people have feelings...it just points out that we (and sometimes they) do not know what feeling they are having, can be faking a feeling and that they/we "cannot prove that "people have >the< feelings" that they claim.

It doesn't have to show the stimulus. For instance, if you display the reactions of someone who's in love, I don't need to know who you're in love with to know you're in love.

I never said anything about the stimulus needing to be a particular person...and asserting you would "know" someone is "in love" doesn't help/proves nothing.

Quote:
In fact when examining the Neuro scans stimulated by thinking about 'new love/romantic love' it is difficult to distinguish them from those indicating mental illness/obsessive compulsive disorder.

I'm not sure about that, but that's why I wouldn't even have talked about brain scans unless you brought them up. .

“...newly ‘love struck’ couples (had) their brains examined and discovered they have high levels of the neurotransmitter dopamine. This chemical stimulates ‘desire and reward’ by triggering an intense rush of pleasure. It has the same effect on the brain as taking cocaine!”
Add Serotonin to the mix and your 'scan' shows a brain that is extreemly difficult if not impossible to distinguish from forms of mental illness.
"Dr Donatella Marazziti, a psychiatrist at the University of Pisa advertised for twenty couples who'd been madly in love for less than six months. She wanted to see if the brain mechanisms that cause you to constantly think about your lover, were related to the brain mechanisms of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. By analysing blood samples from the lovers, Dr Marazitti discovered that serotonin levels of new lovers were equivalent to the low serotonin levels of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder patients."
The science of love
Then throw in Oxytocin and Vasopressin and your dealing with a
chemically induced condition indistinguishable from Obsessive Compulsive disorder.
Maybe >that's< 'love'.............maybe love is something else...like a non emotionaly motivated or dependent- "Preparedness to do for others".
Like 'God'...there is no hard/fast definition and no way to >proove< the propisition

You don't even need brain scans to see that love and other emotions exist..

A statement of commonly held faith/belief in love that is no different to-
" You don't even need brain scans/proof to see that God exist".

Some things seem so obvious to some people that no proof is expected or required.
Some things (love, God, what's funny) cannot be proven.....doesn't mean they don't exist.

it's very simple. Love is defined as an emotion or feeling.

No. By the very range and diversity of the definitions and understandings of love it is not "simple" it is complex and indeterminate
Love is >not< just defined as an emotion or feeling

We can see that it exists because we can see people display the feeling, just as we can see them display anger and hatred. Those displays are the reason we use the word love. ..

That's right...we see a "display"...We know that some "displays" are acting/pretending and some "displays" are snake oil deception and some "displays" are drug/mental illness induced and some "displays" are genuine...we know these "displays" >exist< but we have no way of >prooving< which is which!
We make our calculation and bet on the "display" based on experience, probability, faith, hope......but not certainty and certainly not >proof<.

>Likewise<....Some people find the world to be such a "display" of the 'love' of God they bet/believe God exists....but no one has >proof< of love or God.

All we're doing is describing reactions we have..

:yes: "describing reactions we have" to the "display"...reading the "display",
interpreting the “display”, applying logic and common sense and probability to the “display”....but not having any proof that the “display” can be sourced to love or God.

Generally atheists don't deny that people have the experiences they attribute to God, just that there is no God to attribute them to...

Generally psychopaths/sociopaths don't deny that people have the experiences they attribute to love, just that there is no love to attribute them to.

(No. I am >not< compairing or linking atheists to psychopaths...I am drawing a parallel between the non "attribution" of things not experienced/believed)

In the same way, I know that people experience love and other emotions because I can see them experiencing them....

In the same way, I know that people experience God because I can see them experiencing Him/Her and His/Her "display" in the universe.

"I can see them experiencing them" daily

No >proof< in either statement...just appeals to what is "seen" and "experienced" by some and not seen/experienced by others.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

As I mentioned earlier, people kill for love and that seems pretty negative to me. Love can be positive or negative. Likewise, is it negative to hate racism. I think because we appear capable of hating someone we once loved and vice versa we see that as a fine line and certainly emotions can be blurry at those times but if you ask yourself or are tested whether you love or not you will know.

Negative in the sense that you are emotionally attached to the object of your hatred but the feelings involved are not benevolent they are malevolent.

 

[Wombat]

"What a power is love! It is the most wonderful, the greatest of all living powers.
Love gives life to the lifeless. Love lights a flame in the heart that is cold. Love brings hope to the hopeless and gladdens the hearts of the sorrowful.
In the world of existence there is indeed no greater power than the power of love. When the heart of man is aglow with the flame of love, he is ready to sacrifice all &#8212; even his life. In the Gospel it is said God is love.

• There are four kinds of love. The first is the love that flows from God to man; it consists of the inexhaustible graces, the Divine effulgence and heavenly illumination. Through this love the world of being receives life. Through this love man is endowed with physical existence, until, through the breath of the Holy Spirit &#8212; this same love &#8212; he receives eternal life and becomes the image of the Living God. This love is the origin of all the love in the world of creation.

• The second is the love that flows from man to God. This is faith, attraction to the Divine, enkindlement, progress, entrance into the Kingdom of God, receiving the Bounties of God, illumination with the lights of the Kingdom. This love is the origin of all philanthropy; this love causes the hearts of men to reflect the rays of the Sun of Reality.

• The third is the love of God towards the Self or Identity of God. This is the transfiguration of His Beauty, the reflection of Himself in the mirror of His Creation. This is the reality of love, the Ancient Love, the Eternal Love. Through one ray of this Love all other love exists.

• The fourth is the love of man for man. The love which exists between the hearts of believers is prompted by the ideal of the unity of spirits. This love is attained through the knowledge of God, so that men see the Divine Love reflected in the heart. Each sees in the other the Beauty of God reflected in the soul, and finding this point of similarity, they are attracted to one another in love. This love will make all men the waves of one sea, this love will make them all the stars of one heaven and the fruits of one tree. This love will bring the realization of true accord, the foundation of real unity." Abdul Baha

 

[Wombat]

"Know thou of a certainty that Love is the secret of God's holy Dispensation, the manifestation of the All-Merciful, the fountain of spiritual outpourings. Love is heaven's kindly light, the Holy Spirit's eternal breath that vivifieth the human soul. Love is the cause of God's revelation unto man, the vital bond inherent, in accordance with the divine creation, in the realities of things. Love is the one means that ensureth true felicity both in this world and the next. Love is the light that guideth in darkness, the living link that uniteth God with man, that assureth the progress of every illumined soul. Love is the most great law that ruleth this mighty and heavenly cycle, the unique power that bindeth together the diverse elements of this material world, the supreme magnetic force that directeth the movements of the spheres in the celestial realms. Love revealeth with unfailing and limitless power the mysteries latent in the universe. Love is the spirit of life unto the adorned body of mankind, the establisher of true civilization in this mortal world, and the shedder of imperishable glory upon every high-aiming race and nation"
Abdul Baha

Just thought I'd throw a couple in the mix ;-)