Would anyone here really want to live under a theocracy?

[URAVIP2ME]

The Vatican is a theocracy.
Iran is a theocracy.
Sudan is a theocracy.

God's Kingdom ( Daniel 2:44-45; 7:18 ) is also a theocracy.
God's Kingdom ( thy kingdom come..... ) is the ' biblical theocracy' that Jesus instructed to pray for to come.......
Unlike the Vatican, Iran, Sudan it is Jesus who is the Head/ Ruler of God's theocratic kingdom government - 1st. Cor. 15:24-26

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Law is one element of a culture. Culture is basically everything about how humans do things that is learned rather than instinctual.

Which Law ? from secular culture or biblical source ________
Biblical culture would be learned form a biblical source aka Bible.

In Secular Culture we don't find 'sin'. When someone is caught speeding it is Not called sinning against the motor-vehicle code.
Whereas, in Biblical Culture breaking God's Law is what is called as being sin.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Which Law ? from secular culture or biblical source ________
Biblical culture would be learned form a biblical source aka Bible.

In Secular Culture we don't find 'sin'. When someone is caught speeding it is Not called sinning against the motor-vehicle code.
Whereas, in Biblical Culture breaking God's Law is what is called as being sin.

It is not relevant to my point which law. ALL LAW is cultural, including Torah Law.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The state should not have a religion.
I think secularism or state atheism are paramount. I think in circumstances where powerful religious institutions exist the later is required in some circumstances, while the former is preferable.

But is the ' state ' in a 'relative or limited position' to God's 'absolute position' ________
Thus, Christians respect secular government ( pay taxes back to 'Caesar' for example ) - Acts 5:29
It's men we find can be influenced by human imperfection including greed or prejudice, etc. thus not accomplishing goals.
Choosing to spend more on weapons than medical.
God commands respect for human rulers to the point they do Not want a person to go against God's arrangement. - Romans chap. 13.

 

[shunyadragon]

My answer to this is an emphatic 'No.'
My idea for this thread came from a recent conversation I had with a gentleman who said he wants the United States to become a Christian theocracy. Personally I like our current model of a secular government that allows people to worship, or not worship, how they see fit.
Thoughts?

Having a Theocracy or more likely a from of Democratic theonomy is the present threat would not likely effect where and how we worship or believe. The present belief of many fundamentalist Christians is they want a Christian Democracy via a Christian Republican Party.

Christian right - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Having a Theocracy or more likely a from of Democratic theonomy is the present threat would not likely effect where and how we worship or believe. The present belief of many fundamentalist Christians is they want a Christian Democracy via a Christian Republican Party..........................

However, there is No such thing as a Christian Democracy nor Christian Republican.
Jesus was a Theocrat and so were his 1st-century followers.
They were ' neutral ' were the affairs of the world were concerned.
They did Not even take sides in the 'issues of the day' between the Jews and Romans.

 

[shunyadragon]

However, there is No such thing as a Christian Democracy nor Christian Republican.
Jesus was a Theocrat and so were his 1st-century followers.
They were ' neutral ' were the affairs of the world were concerned.
They did Not even take sides in the 'issues of the day' between the Jews and Romans.

I am referring to millions of Americans supporting extreme Right Republican re[resentatives in US government that support a Christian dominated Democracy, and not any particular interpretation of scripture. The history of the belief in The Dominion and Manifest Destiny of the world through Theocracies and Theonomy has dominated Christian history since the Christina Roman Empire and the belief of the Roman Church (RCC).

The separation of Church and State arose during the Age of Enlightenment, but we may loose this by the Domination of the extreme Christian Right in the name of the New Covenant.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I am referring to millions of Americans supporting extreme Right Republican re[resentatives in US government that support a Christian dominated Democracy, and not any particular interpretation of scripture. The history of the belief in The Dominion and Manifest Destiny of the world through Theocracies and Theonomy has dominated Christian history since the Christina Roman Empire and the belief of the Roman Church (RCC).

The separation of Church and State arose during the Age of Enlightenment, but we may loose this by the Domination of the extreme Christian Right in the name of the New Covenant.

Remember that although right wing Christians get all the press, there are plenty of left wing Christians for whom things like helping the poor, the sick, the old, the oppressed form the backbone of their politics.

 

[shunyadragon]

However, there is No such thing as a Christian Democracy nor Christian Republican.
Jesus was a Theocrat and so were his 1st-century followers.

To add the followers of Jesus during his life and shortly after believed in an apocalyptic Christianity. and an immanent end of the world.

They were ' neutral ' were the affairs of the world were concerned.
They did Not even take sides in the 'issues of the day' between the Jews and Romans.

The latter Christian Rome was definitely not neutral and believe in a Theocracy or Theonomy ruled by the Rome in the name of the Roman Church.

 

[shunyadragon]

Remember that although right wing Christians get all the press, there are plenty of left wing Christians for whom things like helping the poor, the sick, the old, the oppressed form the backbone of their politics.

True, but the middle ground and the left is loosing ground in the USA to the extreme right. I live in North Carolina, and ur the rise of the extreme right we are becoming a b;ood red state. The Supreme Court now represents a lock on the extreme right.Trump will likely be the next president with the support of the extreme right agenda. I sure hope this does not happen.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

True, but the middle ground and the left is loosing ground in the USA to the extreme right. I live in North Carolina, and ur the rise of the extreme right we are becoming a b;ood red state. The Supreme Court now represents a lock on the extreme right.Trump will likely be the next president with the support of the extreme right agenda. I sure hope this does not happen.

I suppose it depends on where you live. Here in California, the left absolutely dominates, and I mean EXTREME left. (I am personally a moderate and independent, so I am opposed to BOTH extremes.) California does nutty things like passes laws against department stores that have the "audacity" to have separate sections for girls' toys and boys' toys.

 

[shunyadragon]

I suppose it depends on where you live. Here in California, the left absolutely dominates, and I mean EXTREME left. (I am personally a moderate and independent, so I am opposed to BOTH extremes.) California does nutty things like passes laws against department stores that have the "audacity" to have separate sections for girls' toys and boys' toys.

I am a moderate myself, but the reality of the the nation as a whole. is not California.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I am a moderate myself, but the reality of the the nation as a whole. is not California.

But the majojrity of people live in either California or New York, both of which are liberal.

 

[ppp]

I suppose it depends on where you live. Here in California, the left absolutely dominates, and I mean EXTREME left. (I am personally a moderate and independent, so I am opposed to BOTH extremes.) California does nutty things like passes laws against department stores that have the "audacity" to have separate sections for girls' toys and boys' toys.

As I understand it the law that California just signed into effect as of January 1st 2024, mandates that large physical retail stores in the state of California with more than 500 have a gender-neutral section. It does not require the removal of separate girls and boys sections.

 

[Viker]

In the case of the U.S. it's implied the Declaration of Independence, which is essentially the preamble to the Constitution.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

The Declaration of Indpendence describes the severance of political bands, and these are distinct from the English common law that the settlers brought to North America.

English common law describes the natural rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. English common law goes back to King Alfred the Great and his legal code which was drawn from the ten commandments of Exodus 20 but with some alterations to support Christianity. Christianity goes back to the official religion of Rome, which is where the union of state and church originated under Constantine.

That is not the preamble.

This is the preamble of Constitution:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

1st Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[4]

 

[shunyadragon]

That is not the preamble.

This is the preamble of Constitution:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

1st Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[4]

Yes this is often used to establish the separation of church and state, but the Right Christian Republican goal is to establish a 'Christian Democracy' through a Christian Republican Party gerry mandered electoral process, and not pass any laws respecting the establishment of the Christian religion as the state religion.

 

[shunyadragon]

But the majojrity of people live in either California or New York, both of which are liberal.

This is where the election distribution of Congress, gerry mandered election district, electoral college can Trump (excuse the pun) California and NEw York. In North Carolina alone gerry mandered districts have altered the congressional districts from equal distribution to something like four or five Republican districts to two Democratic Districts.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I am referring to millions of Americans supporting extreme Right Republican re[resentatives in US government that support a Christian dominated Democracy, and not any particular interpretation of scripture. The history of the belief in The Dominion and Manifest Destiny of the world through Theocracies and Theonomy has dominated Christian history since the Christina Roman Empire and the belief of the Roman Church (RCC).
The separation of Church and State arose during the Age of Enlightenment, but we may loose this by the Domination of the extreme Christian Right in the name of the New Covenant.

Before the ' Age of Enlightenment ' we have the ' Age of the OT Enlightenment ' as found at 2nd Chronicles 26:16-21.
The 'separation of church and state'. The kings (political) were Not to interfere with the religious and vice versa.
Yes, may loose by the Domination of the extreme X-ian right.
Once the political surprisingly turns on the religious world that is what will prove to be the precursor to the coming great tribulation as found at Revelation 7:14

 

[danieldemol]

Once the political surprisingly turns on the religious world

Meh, prophecy based on past experience isn't impressive to me.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

To add the followers of Jesus during his life and shortly after believed in an apocalyptic Christianity. and an immanent end of the world.
The latter Christian Rome was definitely not neutral and believe in a Theocracy or Theonomy ruled by the Rome in the name of the Roman Church.

Yes, 'the latter was definitely Not neutral' because after the 1st century ended is when the apostasy started as foretold at Acts 20:29-30