doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
No, we keep looking for meanings, find ourselves face to face with the Abyss, and call out to "God" (of one sort or another) to save us. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
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Would foreknowledge contradict free will?
- Thread starter Wandered Off
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doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
But a few will learn by repeating to see that the Abyss is itself the call for help. And perceive, even if fleetingly, that asking the question of meaning is the impediment to love - even if nobody can completely stop themselves from asking.
lunamoth
Will to love
doppelgänger;1371320 said:
I just started reading The Great Emergence by Phyllis Tickle where she describes the observation that Christianity (and arguably all religions, all institutions) has undergone 500-year cycles of change. (I think that's a bit contrived and I would expect the cycles to get progressively shorter and shorter, or be of more random lengths and interludes.) Anyway, this could represent a collective 'peering into the abyss' the way you describe it above.
I think Emergent Church movement is very interesting and it does seem like we are in a sea change moment in the history of Christianity. I think Nietzsche is one of the harbingers of the change.
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
The new revelations occur when the apparent world that we experience mythologically is no longer able to be reconciled with the changes in the world of ideas, commerce and technology since the last revelation.
You could say that "God" - the harmony and balance of things - sends a new prophet to create new values that align with the new problems. The more rapidly the world changes, the more frequently this happens.
Nice. I like that quite a lot.
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
Although the means by which the old are torn down usually hints at the illusory nature of the new things that we'll build in its place.
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
And that is why, out of all the revelations in circulation (and new one's emerging by the moment), it is chosen as the new.
James Humphreys
Member
I'm don't know if in this very long thread someone brought up the relationship between God's omniscience and his omnipotence, but here goes. If God is all powerful, is he powerful enough to limit what he can know? Can God place limits on himself? I would say that he can. If his purpose is to create beings that really have free will, that resemble him in some sense, I think that he has the capacity to create in that way, by limiting his knowledge, his power, whatever it takes.
Wandered Off
Sporadic Driveby Member
It's an interesting thought, but I don't think it gets us out of the problem... As you describe it, the future must already exist such that it could be known, but God simply chooses not to. Again, it's not the foreknowledge itself that interferes with free will but rather the existence of a future that could be known, which is implied in your scenario.
First post alert.
This might be somewhat off topic. In the theory of an omniscient deity, as found in Abrahamic theology, the creator (God) would be responsible for our species acquisition of "free will". I am most definitely in over my head regarding most theology. However, In my layman's perspective I purpose the real question is, if god has "willed" our ability to choose, is any choice made by man contradictory of God's will, Regardless of foreknowledge? (though I question the legitimacy of one's omniscience with the absence of foreknowledge)
This might be somewhat off topic. In the theory of an omniscient deity, as found in Abrahamic theology, the creator (God) would be responsible for our species acquisition of "free will". I am most definitely in over my head regarding most theology. However, In my layman's perspective I purpose the real question is, if god has "willed" our ability to choose, is any choice made by man contradictory of God's will, Regardless of foreknowledge? (though I question the legitimacy of one's omniscience with the absence of foreknowledge)
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AK4
Well-Known Member
you are correct
A more relevant question would have been "Since GOD has already plainly laid out everything that is going to happen to humanity, both good and bad, has humanity suffered any loss of free will?"
We already know what will happen. How has it changed your personal perspective? Most of the world doesn't even believe in GOD despite the fact that every single thing that HE ever said would happen has or is happening. Free will is very clearly a very real part of our reality. Otherwise you wouldn't even be asking the question.
We already know what will happen. How has it changed your personal perspective? Most of the world doesn't even believe in GOD despite the fact that every single thing that HE ever said would happen has or is happening. Free will is very clearly a very real part of our reality. Otherwise you wouldn't even be asking the question.
Wandered Off
Sporadic Driveby Member
In that scenario, the answer is "no" since free will was never around in the first place that it could be lost.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
I've said somethings along these lines as well. If all came from this omniscient/omnipotent/omnipresent god then any and everything we do...or not is the will of this god.