Would God allow a false prophet to claim a new Law and commandments?

[Trailblazer]

Of course. God is either unaware of us or disinterested in us.
The above fact supports Deism exactly.

Or God is aware but chooses not to interfere with our free will.

 

[Trailblazer]

Then you DO think that the percentage of people who believe something means that that something is true. You can't have it both ways.

I can have it both ways because percentages do not always mean anything, but in the case of belief in God percentages matter, because if God created humans to know God and worship Him, as I believe, then God would want that for 'most' humans.

And it's kind of odd that the percentage jumped from 84% to 93%

That is because only 84% of people have a religion, the other believers have no religion.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But I know one thing; I got tired of arguing about 'which religion is right' a long time ago.
So maybe this is God's way of trying to tell me something.

That's the way, embrace the community life.

Regards Tony

 

[QuestioningMind]

I can have it both ways because percentages do not always mean anything, but in the case of belief in God percentages matter, because if God created humans to know God and worship Him, as I believe, then God would want that for 'most' humans.

That is because only 84% of people have a religion, the other believers have no religion.

Okay... so the percentage of people who believe something has nothing to do with whether that something is true... UNLESS you happen to agree that the something is true THEN the percentage of people who believe it IS an indication that it's true. How very convenient for you.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's the way, embrace the community life.

Regards Tony

I won't unless and until I emerge from this mental fog.......
Most people do not want to be around depressed people.

"In this world we are influenced by two sentiments, Joy and Pain........
Joy gives us wings! In times of joy our strength is more vital, our intellect keener, and our understanding less clouded. We seem better able to cope with the world and to find our sphere of usefulness. But when sadness visits us we become weak, our strength leaves us, our comprehension is dim and our intelligence veiled. The actualities of life seem to elude our grasp, the eyes of our spirits fail to discover the sacred mysteries, and we become even as dead beings.” Paris Talks

 

[Trailblazer]

Okay... so the percentage of people who believe something has nothing to do with whether that something is true... UNLESS you happen to agree that the something is true THEN the percentage of people who believe it IS an indication that it's true. How very convenient for you.

Good observation, I was thinking the same thing....
Obviously it looks different from the atheist side of the fence.

Please note: Only if it is true does the percentage of people who believe it is true an indication that it's true, for reasons I stated.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I won't unless and until I emerge from this mental fog.......
Most people do not want to be around depressed people.

"In this world we are influenced by two sentiments, Joy and Pain........
Joy gives us wings! In times of joy our strength is more vital, our intellect keener, and our understanding less clouded. We seem better able to cope with the world and to find our sphere of usefulness. But when sadness visits us we become weak, our strength leaves us, our comprehension is dim and our intelligence veiled. The actualities of life seem to elude our grasp, the eyes of our spirits fail to discover the sacred mysteries, and we become even as dead beings.” Paris Talks

No worries Trailblazer my wife is a manic depressant. I know how you are traveling in life, I know it is a daily struggle for you and I know why you can not see an all loving God.

I also know nothing I say can help, but as I always do with my wife, I still offer. In time the brightness does shine through, and when she manages the effort, some of her happiest times are when she is helping others. The depression is being alone in ones own thoughts.

It is easy for me to say that, but I am there to pull her out of the comfort zone into the places that scare her. It will always be a battle to the end of our time here, but just consider, the community is missing out on all the information you have gathered and they would benefit greatly by that knowledge. It will not be easy if you try, I can only say we are with you in heart and prayer.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

No worries Trailblazer my wife is a manic depressant. I know how you are traveling in life, I know it is a daily struggle for you and I know why you can not see an all loving God.

I also know nothing I say can help, but as I always do with my wife, I still offer. In time the brightness does shine through, and when she manages the effort, some of her happiest times are when she is helping others. The depression is being alone in ones own thoughts.

It is easy for me to say that, but I am there to pull her out of the comfort zone into the places that scare her. It will always be a battle to the end of our time here, but just consider, the community is missing out on all the information you have gathered and they would benefit greatly by that knowledge. It will not be easy if you try, I can only say we are with you in heart and prayer.

Regards Tony

I will go to Baha'i activities in due time, when I know the time is right...
Yes, I know the community would benefit from what I have learned on forums.

I do not think this is depression per se but the mental slowdown is making me depressed...

I do believe God is all-loving, He sends me people like you to prove it...
No, you cannot fix it any more than my husband can, but you can listen and care.

 

[whirlingmerc]

I am not asking if God allows a false prophet just to claim to be a prophet of God! I believe He does allow such false prophets.

But, would God allow a false prophet to come up with certain commands and laws by himself, and claim he is revealing commandments, decrees, ordinances and laws from God and demand everyone to obey and follow his book, he claims to be from God?


Quran says, it cannot happen:


"And if the apostle were to invent any sayings in Our name, We should certainly seize him by his right hand, And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart" Quran 69:44-46

If you believe in Jesus, or Yahiwa, but you don't believe Muhammad, what was Jesus or God doing, when Muhammad was claiming such things. Why your God didnt cut Muhammad's heart artery so, he doesnt misguide them?


What does your scriptures say? If you believe in a God, but no scriptures, you can still bring your reasoning, why would the Powerful and All knowing you believe, allow, someone speak on His behalf, and make them obey a commandments, thereby allowing His people to get misguided?

A prophet should not contradict what God already said
But depends on what you mean by new?

"A new commandment I give you that you love one another as I have loved you"
is not contradictory with prior revelation, if anything it's an even higher standard.

 

[Ebionite]

A prophet should not contradict what God already said
But depends on what you mean by new?

"A new commandment I give you that you love one another as I have loved you"
is not contradictory with prior revelation, if anything it's an even higher standard.

We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?
Quran 2:106

 

[oldbadger]

Or God is aware but chooses not to interfere with our free will.

Please don't tell me what I, a Deist, believe in.
God is far too huge to be aware of us or particularly interested in us.
To believe otherwise is hugely arrogant imo.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Good observation, I was thinking the same thing....
Obviously it looks different from the atheist side of the fence.

Please note: Only if it is true does the percentage of people who believe it is true an indication that it's true, for reasons I stated.

Please note: Only if it is true does the percentage of people who believe it is true an indication that it's true, for reasons I stated.

Which is just another way of saying that the percentage of people who believe something has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it's true. It doesn't matter if we're talking about the percentage of people who believe in a god entity or the percentage of people who believe that 2 + 2 = 5.

 

[Trailblazer]

Please don't tell me what I, a Deist, believe in.
God is far too huge to be aware of us or particularly interested in us.
To believe otherwise is hugely arrogant imo.

You are welcome to your opinion, as we all are.

 

[Trailblazer]

Please note: Only if it is true does the percentage of people who believe it is true an indication that it's true, for reasons I stated.

Which is just another way of saying that the percentage of people who believe something has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it's true. It doesn't matter if we're talking about the percentage of people who believe in a god entity or the percentage of people who believe that 2 + 2 = 5.

You are correct.
The percentage of people who believe something has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it's true.

Sorry, my thinking has not been that clear lately because I have not been well.

 

[whirlingmerc]

You are correct.
The percentage of people who believe something has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it's true.

Sorry, my thinking has not been that clear lately because I have not been well.

Interestingly the Messiah's work is coupled with the law
see 3 couplets Psalm 1 (LAW) and 2 (HIS WORK), Psalm 18 (HIS WORK) and 19 (LAW) , Psalm 118 (HIS WORK) and 119 (LAW)

In a sense we can't keep the law in our own strength and as Isaiah says 'all your works of righteousness are as filthy rags" but by grace and faith in the finished work of Christ we can. We can walk in grace where faith is the root and works and love are the fruit. We finally keep the law but are justified as Abraham was 'by faith'

The law shows us aspects of what God is like in his holiness and also shows us our sin in our lives, it also points us to our need for Christ.

 

[CG Didymus]

All those holy books speak about such a day will come upon humanity at a time where most of the world will turn away from true belief.

And can Baha'is truly say that any religion, other than their own, has "true" belief? I would believe that many people are turning away from "organized" religions. But it's not because they have the truth. It's because people don't believe those religions have the truth.

And what about a day when humanity will "turn" away from true belief? That is one problem I have with how the Baha'is say things are supposed to happen. In Revelation, things get bad, real bad, but Christ has not come yet. When he does come... evil is done away with and everything is made new then, not years, or decades, or even centuries later. Revelation never says that Christ comes riding in on his white horse and the rulers of the Earth reject him and he gets thrown in prison.

That to me is all up to you to sort out. I always consider Christ will only come when Christ is in our Heart and embraced on a worldly scale as promised by Jesus. That day, when the mass will have Christ in their heart, is still yet to come, but the 'Glory of God', the 'Father' is now on the throne.

Revelation to me jumps in and out of timelines in this world, it is an all embracing vision that tells of the times up to the appearance of the Bab and Baha'u'llah, with other glimpses that go beyond even those Twin Revelations. I see Revelation talks about a scope that embraces the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last. It is a book that will still giving meaning 1,000 and may be 500,000 years from now.

For Baha'is, Revelation jumps around, but probably not for Christians. But, don't even Baha'is use timeline charts based on prophecies from Daniel and Revelation?

And, the problem with having "Christ" already having come and gone, and the world is still in chaos, is that it makes Bible prophecies misleading. They mislead the Jews. And they are blamed by Christians and Baha'is for misinterpreting their own Scriptures. And now, it misleads Christians into thinking it will be Jesus coming and making things a Paradise again. It also misled them into believing that Satan is the cause of all our problems. And that when Jesus returns he casts Satan into a lake of fire with all evil people. But Baha'is say there is no Satan. So the story isn't true, which makes everything that many Christians believe to be true, false. I know, Baha'is will say that they have to look at it with "spiritual" eyes, but I think, if it ain't true, Revelation is being very deceptive.

Take care Tony, I suppose the fires down there are over with?

 

[CG Didymus]

Or God is aware but chooses not to interfere with our free will.

Free will is such a crazy concept. If God knows what will happen, then God knew what choices we'd make. But, what I wonder, did he orchestrate everything? Is he like an author writing a novel or a play, or maybe more like a soap opera? But, if things are random, and are waiting for each of us to make our choices, then is God really in control? And then, what if one of us makes a choice that God doesn't like, does he then intervene to get things back on track? And, the Bible has stories where God does intervene. And he supposedly "hardens" people's hearts to make sure they make the wrong choice. But that's assuming those stories are true. Which I think both you and I doubt very much.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Take care Tony, I suppose the fires down there are over with?

You too CG.

Most likely the fires have had a flood now on top of them CG, I am a few 1000 km north in flood or drought country, we are cut off by road in one direction from flood waters.

I started a new Post called the Quandary.

That may be the place to discuss what is the quandary you see.

RegardsTony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Baha'is say there is no Satan. So the story isn't true, which makes everything that many Christians believe to be true,

The correct thought here is that there is no independent source of Evil, it is but our perception and the lack of good. It is important to know it is all part of what God has given us, to enable free will we have this verse;

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Light is all the virtues, darkness Satan, Hell is lack of that light. So it exists according to our choices and perceptions of what God has given us.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Free will is such a crazy concept. If God knows what will happen, then God knew what choices we'd make. But, what I wonder, did he orchestrate everything? Is he like an author writing a novel or a play, or maybe more like a soap opera? But, if things are random, and are waiting for each of us to make our choices, then is God really in control? And then, what if one of us makes a choice that God doesn't like, does he then intervene to get things back on track?

God allows us to make choices He does not like, that is what free will is all about

Predestined means that something is destined to happen because it is written on the Tablet of Fate. God KNOWS it will happen, but knowing something will happen is not what causes it to happen:

“Question.—If God has knowledge of an action which will be performed by someone, and it has been written on the Tablet of Fate, is it possible to resist it?

Answer.—The foreknowledge of a thing is not the cause of its realization; for the essential knowledge of God surrounds, in the same way, the realities of things, before as well as after their existence, and it does not become the cause of their existence. It is a perfection of God.......

Therefore, the knowledge of God in the realm of contingency does not produce the forms of the things. On the contrary, it is purified from the past, present and future. It is identical with the reality of the things; it is not the cause of their occurrence........

The mathematicians by astronomical calculations know that at a certain time an eclipse of the moon or the sun will occur. Surely this discovery does not cause the eclipse to take place. This is, of course, only an analogy and not an exact image.”
Some Answered Questions, pp. 138-139

God knows what humans will do before during and after they do it, but God does not cause them to do anything. What causes it to happen is a human free will choice which is a choice God KNOWS we will make before we make it. That choice becomes an action that God KNEW about ahead of time.

God’s knowledge of what will happen in the future does not CAUSE it to happen, not any more than the astronomer’s knowledge of an eclipse causes the eclipse to happen.

Time as we know it only exists in the material realm of existence where it can be measured by the sun. God has knowledge of the physical realm, our past, present and future, since God is omniscient, although that kind of time does not exist in the spiritual realm where God exists.

And, the Bible has stories where God does intervene. And he supposedly "hardens" people's hearts to make sure they make the wrong choice. But that's assuming those stories are true. Which I think both you and I doubt very much.

I believe these are allegorical stories. Nobody knows what God did/does/is doing.