Would God allow a false prophet to claim a new Law and commandments?

[CG Didymus]

would God allow a false prophet to come up with certain commands and laws by himself, and claim he is revealing commandments, decrees, ordinances and laws from God and demand everyone to obey and follow his book, he claims to be from God?


Quran says, it cannot happen:


"And if the apostle were to invent any sayings in Our name, We should certainly seize him by his right hand, And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart" Quran 69:44-46

So therefore The Bab and Baha'u'llah must be true prophets because God didn't cut their throats?​

No, the point of this thread is not only that the Bahai Faith must be true...
It is more this:
I am saying that, Let's look at the history of all men who ever claimed to be a prophet, a god, a messiah, a mahdi. Regardless if their religion grew or not, regardless if they had good fruits or bad fruits, we cannot find one example among them who wrote a book with new commands and laws demanding people to obey, claiming it to be from God! Except for Buddha, Krishna, Zoraster, Moses, Jesus, Mohammad, the Bab, and Bahaullah. Am I right? If you say no, you need to prove me wrong by finding one exception only.

I don't get what you are trying to say with all this. Jesus didn't write anything. And Baha'is say that the NT is not 100% authentic. And, that the gospel writers were probably not eyewitnesses. When any of the Holy Books says anything contrary to Baha'i beliefs, Baha'is explain it away, yet, because of this verse in the Quran you think is true?

Sure you believe Baha'u'llah is the return of every promised one in every religion. And some of us disagree with you. Oh, and speaking of "inventing" this in God's name, did Joseph Smith make up the Book of Mormon or did an Angel from God tell him where to find the Golden Plates?

 

[Trailblazer]

Which is that the percentage of people who believe something has NOTHING to do with how true that something is AND that it's illogical to believe that 84% of people could be wrong about their being a creator god being.

Thanks, that's about as clear as mud.

How likely is it that only 7% of people in the world who are atheists are the only ones who are right about God?
I just cannot see how 93% of people in the world who are believers could all be wrong about God.

It makes more sense *to me* that God exists and God created humans, so God wants to be known to exist by most humans, which is why 93% of people in the world believe in God.

 

[Ebionite]

I just cannot see how 93% of people in the world who are believers could all be wrong about God.

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Matthew 7:13-14

 

[CG Didymus]

No, I had not, I saw no need. This is the claim

"The Book of Mormon brings you closer to Jesus - Like the Bible, the Book of Mormon is an ancient record that teaches about Jesus. It answers essential questions that we all have: Is there life after death, what is the purpose of life, and how can I find happiness and peace now? People from all over the world, and from all walks of life, are learning that the Book of Mormon can help us become better people and feel closer to God."

Thus that is no different from any other branch that was inspired to re-speak in Jesus the Christs Name.

It says on the opening Page

The Book of MorMon - Another Testament of Jesus Christ. (That is definitely adding to the text of the Bible)

This section suggests that there was some truth to some of the thins that Joseph Smith may have been seeing. We now know that The Glory of God is Baha'u'llah and the station was of that of the Father.

Morman 9:5For behold, when ye shall be brought to see your a nakedness before God, and also the glory of God, and the holiness of Jesus Christ, it will kindle a flame of unquench-able fire upon you.6O then ye a unbelieving, b turn ye unto the Lord; cry mightily unto the Father in the name of Jesus, that perhaps ye may be found spotless,pure, fair, and white, having been cleansed by the blood of the Lamb, at that great and last day.7And again I speak unto you who a deny the revelations of God, and say that they are done away, that there are no revelations, nor prophecies, nor gifts, nor healing, nor speaking with tongues, and the interpreta-tion of tongues;8Behold I say unto you, he that denieth these things knoweth not the a gospel of Christ; yea, he has not read the scriptures; if so, he does not understand them.9For do we not read that God is the a same yesterday, today, and forever, and in him there is no variableness neither shadow of changing?10And now, if ye have imagined up unto yourselves a god who doth vary, and in whom there is shadow of changing, then have ye imagined up unto yourselves a god who is not a God of miracles.

My thought is that 2 Manifestations of God were walking the earth while Joseph Smith was in America, and they were times of much expectation.

The death of Joseph Smith was by assassination on June 27 1844, just weeks after the Bab's declaration. I see the book of Mormon as a confusion of Bible quotes mixed with? I was not inspired to read it much more than a search on specific words.

Regards Tony

It is a "confusion" of Bible quotes? So it is not true? And is something Joseph Smith made up?

 

[CG Didymus]

How likely is it that only 7% of people in the world who are atheists are the only ones who are right about God?
I just cannot see how 93% of people in the world who are believers could all be wrong about God.

It makes more sense *to me* that God exists and God created humans, so God wants to be known to exist by most humans, which is why 93% of people in the world believe in God.

If it wasn't for the Baha'i Faith, would you believe that there is an all-loving God? People through the ages have had lots of beliefs about Gods and Goddesses, were all of them true? Do you think that many religious beliefs are superstitious? Are what many people believe to be true about God really true? Does it look like an all-loving God created the universe and the earth? Could you make a case for some kind of naturalistic explanation of why the earth and the people on it are the way they are?

If the Baha'is are right about how they describe God, how many other religions believe like that? If they don't, then they are wrong about God. And, like I've said before, if those other religions define their God differently than Baha'is, then Baha'is and Atheists agree... those beliefs about God are false... that God is only something made up by people. And, since you believe Atheists are wrong too, then what percentage of people in the world have it right?

 

[Trailblazer]

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Matthew 7:13-14

The religion at the narrow gate is the religion God wants us to find and follow, and it is the gate that leads to eternal life. But it is not that easy for most people to find this gate because most people are steeped in religious tradition or attached to what they already believe. If they do not have a religion, most people are suspicious of the new religion and the new Messenger. If they are atheists they do not like the idea of Messengers of God or they think they are all phonies. If they are irreligious they have become fatigued by the already established religions and thus just find it more annoying that a new one has popped up.

It is difficult to get through the narrow gate because one has to be willing to give up all their preconceived ideas, have an open mind, and think for themselves. Most people do not normally embark upon such a journey. They go through the wide gate, the easy one to get through – their own religious tradition or their own preconceived ideas about God or no god. They follow the broad road that is easiest for them to travel.

 

[Trailblazer]

If it wasn't for the Baha'i Faith, would you believe that there is an all-loving God?

If it wasn't for the Baha'i Faith I probably would not believe in God....
As far as I am concerned the jury is out on an All-Loving God.

And, since you believe Atheists are wrong too, then what percentage of people in the world have it right?

About 0.1%, the ones who entered through the narrow gate.

 

[oldbadger]

..............
I just cannot see how 93% of people in the world who are believers could all be wrong about God.

It makes more sense *to me* that God exists and God created humans, so God wants to be known to exist by most humans, which is why 93% of people in the world believe in God.

So how are your actions and lifestyle different from those atheists?

Are you more honest?
Do you care more about people?
Are you less attracted to mammon?
What are the fruits of your religion?

You will know religions by their fruits. True?

 

[Trailblazer]

So how are your actions and lifestyle different from those atheists?

Are you more honest?
Do you care more about people?
Are you less attracted to mammon?
What are the fruits of your religion?

You will know religions by their fruits. True?

I was not talking about actions, I was talking about belief in God or no god.
I am no better than anyone else.

 

[QuestioningMind]

How likely is it that only 7% of people in the world who are atheists are the only ones who are right about God?
I just cannot see how 93% of people in the world who are believers could all be wrong about God.

It makes more sense *to me* that God exists and God created humans, so God wants to be known to exist by most humans, which is why 93% of people in the world believe in God.

Then you DO think that the percentage of people who believe something means that that something is true. You can't have it both ways. And it's kind of odd that the percentage jumped from 84% to 93%

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It is a "confusion" of Bible quotes? So it is not true? And is something Joseph Smith made up?

Leave that to you CG.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Deuteronomy 18:20

Yeah and Deuteronomy is just as obviously wrong

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yeah and Deuteronomy is just as obviously wrong

The more to the point observation, is what death is Deuteronomy 18:20 talking about.

There is more than one death, thus that passage most likely is not talking about the death we all face.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

I was not talking about actions, I was talking about belief in God or no god.
I am no better than anyone else.

Well, if your belief in your God makes no difference to you, your actions or your lifestyle, then there cannot be much fruit in it.
Judge them by their fruits.

 

[CG Didymus]

If it wasn't for the Baha'i Faith I probably would not believe in God....
As far as I am concerned the jury is out on an All-Loving God.

About 0.1%, the ones who entered through the narrow gate.

Yeah, I watched a little one of those nature shows and a bunch of tuna were attacking a school of little fish. I was wondering how God decided which little fish got eaten and which survived. Then all the commotion attracted sharks. So now the tuna were the prey. How different is it with people. We take turns being the predators and being the prey... from each other, animals, microbes and natural disasters. And God is orchestrating all this?

Then we have people and their religions. I think people through the ages have made up a lot of the things about religion. That no matter how practical the Baha'i Faith is, all the others have plenty of problems. I think there is good reason to believe that they are not from some all- knowing God but from creative people with very good imaginations. Most all religions have their mythical stuff... including their Gods. One of the problems I have with the Baha'i explanation is that is affirms many of those religions as being true and from the one true God. Like we always argue about Christianity, did Jesus really come back to life and then drift off into space? So that puts the Baha'is into the awkward position of having to say that Jesus and the Bible are true... yet the stories in the Bible aren't literally true.

In this thread the Baha'is again are trying to show using another religion's Scripture, how Baha'u'llah must be true and from God. And again, the arguments go around in circles and prove nothing.

 

[firedragon]

Quran says, it cannot happen:


"And if the apostle were to invent any sayings in Our name, We should certainly seize him by his right hand, And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart" Quran 69:44-46

This verse doesnt say the word "apostle". So find out a little more.

 

[Ebionite]

Yeah and Deuteronomy is just as obviously wrong

Because you say so?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In this thread the Baha'is again are trying to show using another religion's Scripture, how Baha'u'llah must be true and from God. And again, the arguments go around in circles and prove nothing.

They have proved a lot to me. From those interpretations I have accepted all of Humanity as one people and our planet one home. I have found all Faiths have the same God as the source to their faith, given by Messengers from that same source, which just further proves our Oneness.

All those holy books speak about such a day will come upon humanity at a time where most of the world will turn away from true belief.

The Message given by the Bab and Baha'u'llah is world embracing aimed at the peace and security of all mankind, who else is offering that path, with a sound vision as to how it can be achieved, in these troubled times, in a new way, that has a world embracing vision, transcending all National boarders?

So if all that proves not a thing to you CG, where does one have to look?

All the best CG, I see you as a good friend and always happy to chat, one day you will have difficult choices in regards to all that we have discussed over the last few years, you know we will always be here to answer questions, obligation free.

RegardsTony

 

[CG Didymus]

So how are your actions and lifestyle different from those atheists?

Are you more honest?
Do you care more about people?
Are you less attracted to mammon?
What are the fruits of your religion?

You will know religions by their fruits. True?

Then there is the other problem, religious people that "hide" their sinning from their church going friends.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Then there is the other problem, religious people that "hide" their sinning from their church going friends.

This is a good piece of advice that all Scriptures will have:

"O SON OF MAN! Breathe not the sins of others so long as thou art thyself a sinner. Shouldst thou transgress this command, accursed wouldst thou be, and to this I bear witness." Baha'u'llah

"If ye become aware of a sin committed by another, conceal it, that God may conceal your own sin." – Baha’u’llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 55.

Regards Tony