Would God allow a false prophet to claim a new Law and commandments?

[firedragon]

So, I have a question, why would God cut Muhammad's heart artery if He had attributed anything falsely to Allah, but He wouldn't cut another person's heart artery if he has attributed a whole 200 volumes falsely to Allah.

Because Muhammed was a prophet, a rasool, a Nabi. And the other is not.

 

[Trailblazer]

In the future it's quite possible that we'll look back and say that at one time 84% of people were wrong about there being a god entity.

Only if we can prove there is no God entity.

Good luck.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Only if we can prove there is no God entity.

Good luck.

And your 84% of people believe in some god entity remains meaningless until you can prove that your god entity actually exists, since we've already established that the number of people who believe in a thing has NOTHING to do with whether its true or not.

 

[Trailblazer]

And your 84% of people believe in some god entity remains meaningless until you can prove that your god entity actually exists, since we've already established that the number of people who believe in a thing has NOTHING to do with whether its true or not.

You are correct, the number of people who believe in a thing has NOTHING to do with whether its true or not.

However, proof has nothing to do with whether God exists or not.
Proof is just what people want so they can believe in God.
Proof does not MAKE God exist.
God either exists or not.

 

[QuestioningMind]

You are correct, the number of people who believe in a thing has NOTHING to do with whether its true or not.

However, proof has nothing to do with whether God exists or not.
Proof is just what people want so they can believe in God.
Proof does not MAKE God exist.
God either exists or not.

Good! You recognize that the number of people who believe in something has NOTHING to do with whether it's true or not.

Yet for SOME reason you felt compelled to post this, stating that it's illogical to think that 84% of people could be wrong.

What's truly illogical and preposterous is to suggest that 84% of the world's population are wrong about something as important as God and religion.

Not very consisted, are you?

 

[Trailblazer]

Good! You recognize that the number of people who believe in something has NOTHING to do with whether it's true or not.

Yet for SOME reason you felt compelled to post this, stating that it's illogical to think that 84% of people could be wrong.

What's truly illogical and preposterous is to suggest that 84% of the world's population are wrong about something as important as God and religion.

Not very consisted, are you?

I still hold to my position.

 

[CG Didymus]

Islam is a world religion founded by a Prophet of God who had an independent revelation from God through the Angel Gabriel. It is not founded on the Jewish/Christian holy books just because Muhammad referred to them. It has more validity than the Book of Mormon because Joseph Smith was not a Prophet of God.

I do not believe that Joseph Smith was a false prophet because I do not think He claimed to receive a revelation from God but rather claimed to talk to Jesus. It is a Baha'i belief that Smith was a seer who could see into the future, but not a Prophet of God in the same sense as Muhammad.

And how did the Holy Prophet Joseph Smith get HIS revelation?
It was through an angel too, wasn't it?

As far as I know Joseph Smith was led to the seer stones by an angel and he claimed he receieve revelation from God, which means that there was no intermediate angel.

I do not believe that Joseph Smith got a revelation from God.

Joseph Smith said he got a revelation from God.

He can say anything he wants to but that does not make it true. What did Smith do that was in any way comparable to Muhammad? How did he affect a whole people or a civilization?

A false prophets who changes the words of God's holy Books, and claiming that is what God is asking to be done.
When God has given a Book to be a guidance to all, and someone comes and says, God, now has revealed a new holy book to replace Bible!

So Joseph Smith said an angel appeared to him and told him about the Golden Plates. Smith read them and translated them. Is what that book says true or false?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So Joseph Smith said an angel appeared to him and told him about the Golden Plates. Smith read them and translated them. Is what that book says true or false?

CG, it may have been mentioned before, but the Kitab-i-Iqan can answer this complexity of thought.

Regards Tony

 

[InvestigateTruth]

So Joseph Smith said an angel appeared to him and told him about the Golden Plates. Smith read them and translated them. Is what that book says true or false?

Does smith book contain new commands and laws from God? Does his book demand mankind to obey a new set of commands and a new covenant from God?
If your answer is yes to my questions, then I am first to believe in Joseph Smith.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I still hold to my position.

Which is that the percentage of people who believe something has NOTHING to do with how true that something is AND that it's illogical to believe that 84% of people could be wrong about their being a creator god being.

Thanks, that's about as clear as mud.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Because Muhammed was a prophet, a rasool, a Nabi. And the other is not.

So, according to you, since Muhammad was a true Messenger of God, then if he had attributed anything false to God, his heart artery would have been cut. But if someone is not a true Messenger of God, attributed many things to God falsely, God would not cut his heart artery. Why wouldn't God cut a false messenger's artery, but He would cut a true messenger artery, in case of attributing false things to God? What is the wisdom in that?

 

[oldbadger]

What does your scriptures say? If you believe in a God, but no scriptures, you can still bring your reasoning, why would the Powerful and All knowing you believe, allow, someone speak on His behalf, and make them obey a commandments, thereby allowing His people to get misguided?

........... because God is so vast, incorporating all matter and energy and all else, this tiny planet with its fleeting humanity is of no consequence to God.

I am a Deist.

 

[PruePhillip]

So Joseph Smith said an angel appeared to him and told him about the Golden Plates. Smith read them and translated them. Is what that book says true or false?

I put it to you it's false. Not because I was there but because of the content of his message
and his character.
He claimed the angel was reverting to the Old Testament because the New Testament had
failed. And Smith was a crook, a stealer of people's wives and a pedophile.
THE EXCACT SAME SITUATION AS WITH MOHAMMED,.

 

[CG Didymus]

So Joseph Smith said an angel appeared to him and told him about the Golden Plates. Smith read them and translated them. Is what that book says true or false?

CG, it may have been mentioned before, but the Kitab-i-Iqan can answer this complexity of thought.

Have you read the Book of Mormon? If so, do you believe it is telling the truth or is it false?

Does smith book contain new commands and laws from God? Does his book demand mankind to obey a new set of commands and a new covenant from God?
If your answer is yes to my questions, then I am first to believe in Joseph Smith.

If it is true, it is not "Smith's" book. Maybe a Mormon can answer your questions. But I doubt greatly that any Baha'i, if they read the Book and knew what the Book was saying, would believe it is true. But, I'm sure we all know the point of this thread... that the Baha'i Faith must be from God otherwise God would have put a stop to it. Yet, so many of us have our doubts. It's like the NT says, that many false prophets will come and deceive many. Some of us just want to make sure we aren't being deceived by a false prophet. And don't give me that thing about "good fruits". The Baha'is and Mormons and Muslims have examples of good fruit... but two out of those three have had some bad fruit too... and even Christians have done some bad things also. So it don't prove a thing.

I put it to you it's false. Not because I was there but because of the content of his message
and his character.
He claimed the angel was reverting to the Old Testament because the New Testament had
failed. And Smith was a crook

Now why can't the Baha'is here say something like that? Or, if they believe it is true... why can't they just say so?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

But, I'm sure we all know the point of this thread... that the Baha'i Faith must be from God otherwise God would have put a stop to it

No, the point of this thread is not only that the Bahai Faith must be true...
It is more this:
I am saying that, Let's look at the history of all men who ever claimed to be a prophet, a god, a messiah, a mahdi. Regardless if their religion grew or not, regardless if they had good fruits or bad fruits, we cannot find one example among them who wrote a book with new commands and laws demanding people to obey, claiming it to be from God! Except for Buddha, Krishna, Zoraster, Moses, Jesus, Mohammad, the Bab, and Bahaullah. Am I right? If you say no, you need to prove me wrong by finding one exception only.

 

[ManSinha]

we cannot find one example among them who wrote a book with new commands and laws demanding people to obey, claiming it to be from God! Except for Buddha, Krishna, Zoraster, Moses, Jesus, Mohammad, the Bab, and Bahaullah

1. You are wrong
2. The Guru Granth does not "demand" anything - like with all dharmic religions it suggests a specific path for a human to follow
3. It was NOT written by any of the luminaries you have mentioned
4. The Buddha did not write any "book"

Your information is muddled

 

[InvestigateTruth]

1. You are wrong
2. The Guru Granth does not "demand" anything - like with all dharmic religions it suggests a specific path for a human to follow
3. It was NOT written by any of the luminaries you have mentioned
4. The Buddha did not write any "book"

Your information is muddled

From conversations of Buddha with His disciples we can know, He had new ordinances, rites, and laws.
I did not list Guru Granth as one who claimed to have new divine laws and ordinances, so, we are in agreement with that one.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Have you read the Book of Mormon? If so, do you believe it is telling the truth or is it false?

No, I had not, I saw no need. This is the claim

"The Book of Mormon brings you closer to Jesus - Like the Bible, the Book of Mormon is an ancient record that teaches about Jesus. It answers essential questions that we all have: Is there life after death, what is the purpose of life, and how can I find happiness and peace now? People from all over the world, and from all walks of life, are learning that the Book of Mormon can help us become better people and feel closer to God."

Thus that is no different from any other branch that was inspired to re-speak in Jesus the Christs Name.

It says on the opening Page

The Book of MorMon - Another Testament of Jesus Christ. (That is definitely adding to the text of the Bible)

This section suggests that there was some truth to some of the thins that Joseph Smith may have been seeing. We now know that The Glory of God is Baha'u'llah and the station was of that of the Father.

Morman 9:5For behold, when ye shall be brought to see your a nakedness before God, and also the glory of God, and the holiness of Jesus Christ, it will kindle a flame of unquench-able fire upon you.6O then ye a unbelieving, b turn ye unto the Lord; cry mightily unto the Father in the name of Jesus, that perhaps ye may be found spotless,pure, fair, and white, having been cleansed by the blood of the Lamb, at that great and last day.7And again I speak unto you who a deny the revelations of God, and say that they are done away, that there are no revelations, nor prophecies, nor gifts, nor healing, nor speaking with tongues, and the interpreta-tion of tongues;8Behold I say unto you, he that denieth these things knoweth not the a gospel of Christ; yea, he has not read the scriptures; if so, he does not understand them.9For do we not read that God is the a same yesterday, today, and forever, and in him there is no variableness neither shadow of changing?10And now, if ye have imagined up unto yourselves a god who doth vary, and in whom there is shadow of changing, then have ye imagined up unto yourselves a god who is not a God of miracles.

My thought is that 2 Manifestations of God were walking the earth while Joseph Smith was in America, and they were times of much expectation.

The death of Joseph Smith was by assassination on June 27 1844, just weeks after the Bab's declaration. I see the book of Mormon as a confusion of Bible quotes mixed with? I was not inspired to read it much more than a search on specific words.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

So, according to you, since Muhammad was a true Messenger of God, then if he had attributed anything false to God, his heart artery would have been cut.

Yep.

But if someone is not a true Messenger of God, attributed many things to God falsely, God would not cut his heart artery. Why wouldn't God cut a false messenger's artery, but He would cut a true messenger artery, in case of attributing false things to God? What is the wisdom in that?

Maybe because its the rasools duty and cause.

And thats why Quran says that people write their own writings and claim its from God. This was said multiple times already.

 

[Ebionite]

I just think it is another example of the Quran being obviously wrong.

God is not a dictator who goes around striking down peoples of different opinions or laws.

But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Deuteronomy 18:20