Would Jesus support Healthcare Reform?

[Baydwin]

well many right wing christians follow the argument that

"God helps those who help themselves"

Ironically, its not even a part of the bible

If anything it goes directly against what Jesus taught. He taught that people should help others, that they should care for the poor and the sick.
I can see how "God helps those that help themselves" would probably be necessary for them, it's essentially an expression of the capitalist mindset, with God as a prefix. It's quite repulsive.

 

[Perfect Circle]

[youtube]6ik4f1dRbP8[/youtube]
YouTube - Tea Partiers Mock And Scorn Apparent Parkinson's Victim
:thud:

 

[MSizer]

Given that jesus is allegedly one with god, who is allegedly almighty, then the vast degree of sick people suffering as well as the unfair distribution of the suffering can lead me only to conclude that jesus is not particularly concerned with helping the less fortunate.

 

[Walkntune]

funny...this administration had nothign to do with the handling of the above issues...

are you saying you dont trust ANY government?

Are you part of a militia christian group?

I don't put a whole lot of faith in our politics. I can vote for who I favor and hope for the best knowing there is maybe some accountability. In all honesty I don't know of a system of power that doesn't involve a form of corruption. I would rather be under the US then any other I know of but who knows how fast that will shift?I believe big business(money and power) are getting a tighter grip.

 

[look3467]

Jesus was all about giving willingly.

Remember this verse: Luk 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

If Jesus had not willed His will, then it would have been required of Him, which then, it would have defeated His whole purpose.

What ever laws of the land are, is what we allow them to be.

This health care bill has come about because we the people fell asleep at the wheel.

Now that the hornets nest has been rattled, a bit late, still there is time to make corrections.

But to say that Jesus would agree/disagree with this bill, has nothing to do with Him, except for Him to set the boundries to which He will allow corruption to continue.

God set us up to be responsible people, thereby, we must suffer our own consequences for our own miss management.

Freedom has been fought for with blood, and entanglement again into bondage has gained grain foot for our lack of stewardship.

What shall we do now?

We deside!

Blessings, AJ

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Jesus was about giving out of the heart. Not stealing from the rich to give to the poor.

To even join the Church you had to give all you had to the poor.

Acts 4 NIV

32All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. 33With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. 34There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.

Read what happened if you lied and did not give all your money to the poor.


Acts 5

1Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2With his wife's full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles' feet.
3Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."

5When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.

7About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8Peter asked her, "Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?"
"Yes," she said, "that is the price."

9Peter said to her, "How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also."

10At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.



It was expected to give to the poor. You right you did not have to. You just could just not call your self a Christian. The rights of being rich was not a concern in the early church.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Like I said he wouldnt be fooled by the foolishness of the carrot on the stick. He would already know the true political reasons and the agenda of the lobbyist who are really in control of the country and he would see how well(yeah right) the government has done with medicare and medicaid and how miserably they are failing with social security and see passed the twistedness of those who try to manipulate it into being about the human heart.Isn't it the politicians job to make lobbyist proposals look good in public opinion?

And one other thing, tell me the difference between an anti-war rally and a pro-peace rally and then you will understand where Jesus would probably take a stance as far as rallying is concerned?

You did not answer the question. It maters not what the politicians motives were. Some I am sure had ulterior motives, others truly had peoples welfare in mind.
The end result is that more Americans will receive the health care they desperately need. Do you honestly believe that Jesus would condemn that?
Do you think Jesus would condemn the more equitable taxation in the bill? Would he condemn the the removal of pre-existing illness loopholes that insurance companies love to use?
What is it about the bill itself that would be an affront to Jesus?

 

[tumbleweed41]

Jesus was all about giving willingly.

Remember this verse: Luk 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

If Jesus had not willed His will, then it would have been required of Him, which then, it would have defeated His whole purpose.

What ever laws of the land are, is what we allow them to be.

This health care bill has come about because we the people fell asleep at the wheel.

Now that the hornets nest has been rattled, a bit late, still there is time to make corrections.

But to say that Jesus would agree/disagree with this bill, has nothing to do with Him, except for Him to set the boundries to which He will allow corruption to continue.

God set us up to be responsible people, thereby, we must suffer our own consequences for our own miss management.

Freedom has been fought for with blood, and entanglement again into bondage has gained grain foot for our lack of stewardship.

What shall we do now?

We deside!

Blessings, AJ

I see, so if one is not willing to help the disadvantaged and those in need, then Jesus would support the resulting deaths and illnesses.
What seems to be important to you is that you have the freedom to refuse to help other human beings.

 

[no-body]

I see, so if one is not willing to help the disadvantaged and those in need, then Jesus would support the resulting deaths and illnesses.
What seems to be important to you is that you have the freedom to refuse to help other human beings.

Exactly. Jesus would berate those who stole from the rich to give to the poor as sinners and explain how two wrongs don't make a right, you see if we made the rich pay their fair share they would have to fire people and make cutbacks to afford that extra summer home.

But if we gave the rich access to a free market they could give everyone jobs at the minimum wage of 2 bits and no benefits, then all of the poor could afford the same substandard care and die honest deaths for the Lord.

Let us remember the parable of the dumb and lazy poor man.

 

[Perfect Circle]

Jesus was all about giving willingly.

Remember this verse: Luk 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

If Jesus had not willed His will, then it would have been required of Him, which then, it would have defeated His whole purpose.

What ever laws of the land are, is what we allow them to be.

This health care bill has come about because we the people fell asleep at the wheel.

Now that the hornets nest has been rattled, a bit late, still there is time to make corrections.

But to say that Jesus would agree/disagree with this bill, has nothing to do with Him, except for Him to set the boundries to which He will allow corruption to continue.

God set us up to be responsible people, thereby, we must suffer our own consequences for our own miss management.

Freedom has been fought for with blood, and entanglement again into bondage has gained grain foot for our lack of stewardship.

What shall we do now?

We deside!

Blessings, AJ

I honestly can't even see the point you're trying to make here.... Maybe rephrase that in a way that makes sense and I'll give it a shot. But seriously, how can you possibly say that Jesus would have opposed helping people.. because that's what this bill does.

 

[Perfect Circle]

...Let us remember the parable of the dumb and lazy poor man.

Ah yes, that ol' chestnut...

 

[look3467]

I see, so if one is not willing to help the disadvantaged and those in need, then Jesus would support the resulting deaths and illnesses.
What seems to be important to you is that you have the freedom to refuse to help other human beings. >>>tumbleweed41

Here is what Jesus supports: Love God with all thine heart, soul and mind, and like unto it thy neighbor as thy self.

Apart from that, you are free to practice anything you want in blessings or consequences.

What we do with it will either bless us or condemn us!

You giving is a word denoting free will.

If we are forced to give, then it is a requirement.

The right to give is a God given right, and the forced giving is a government thing.

Had we as a people had managed the evils in a free enterprise, we would not have arrived at this point in time of this bill.

So, we pay the price, suffer the consequences of peoples beliefs that we should all be bound, literally, to a code of conduct of forced giving.

Once freedom is lost, it can only be gotten back with the shedding of blood.

The greatest liberation of all time was with the shedding of blood, and that being the liberation of the souls of mankind in Jesus Christ.

Blessings, AJ

 

[tumbleweed41]

Love God with all thine heart, soul and mind, and like unto it thy neighbor as thy self.

'Nuff said

 

[Walkntune]

I honestly can't even see the point you're trying to make here.... Maybe rephrase that in a way that makes sense and I'll give it a shot. But seriously, how can you possibly say that Jesus would have opposed helping people.. because that's what this bill does.

Yes it will help pharmaceutical companies and the food and drug administration become richer and it will cause poor to be more suppressed. If you believe its about providing for the poor you better take another look at the aid provided during Katrina. On the surface it looks like a sweet package that will help the poor but only to the foolish.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Yes it will help pharmaceutical companies and the food and drug administration become richer and it will cause poor to be more suppressed. If you believe its about providing for the poor you better take another look at the aid provided during Katrina. On the surface it looks like a sweet package that will help the poor but only to the foolish.

1. The Food and Drug Administration is a non-profit Governmental Agency. It relies on a yearly budget to ensure the safety of food, drugs and medical devices.
2. Can you show evidence that increased access to health-care suppresses those below the poverty level?
3. Can you show a link between mismanagement of FEMA during Katrina and the new Health Care Bill?

 

[Perfect Circle]

Yes it will help pharmaceutical companies and the food and drug administration become richer and it will cause poor to be more suppressed. If you believe its about providing for the poor you better take another look at the aid provided during Katrina. On the surface it looks like a sweet package that will help the poor but only to the foolish.

What? Food and drug administration become richer? What the hell are you talking about? There's no investors in the FDA... it's a government institution. And what does any of this have to do with Katrina? Have you ever tried thinking before you speak?

 

[Baydwin]

[youtube]6ik4f1dRbP8[/youtube]
YouTube - Tea Partiers Mock And Scorn Apparent Parkinson's Victim
:thud:

Thank god for the Atlantic.

 

[no-body]

What? Food and drug administration become richer? What the hell are you talking about? There's no investors in the FDA... it's a government institution. And what does any of this have to do with Katrina? Have you ever tried thinking before you speak?

Read the health care debate forum, he thinks "big pharma" medicine kills and more people should rely on naturopathy...

I'm opting out of this debate now, lest I get banned.

 

[Mr Cheese]

What? Food and drug administration become richer? What the hell are you talking about? There's no investors in the FDA... it's a government institution. And what does any of this have to do with Katrina? Have you ever tried thinking before you speak?

ha ha

 

[IndieVisible]

Would Jesus support Healthcare Reform?

If the Jesus of the Gospels were here on earth today, living as a mortal man in the United States of America. Do you think he would be marching with the Tea Partiers? Or standing up for the needs of those who could not afford private insurance?

• Luke 10:33-34 "..But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. (34) He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him."
• Matthew 25:40 "I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me."
• Matthew 10:1 "He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and sickness."
• Matthew 12:15 "Many followed him, and he healed all their sick."

Jesus taught that you should pay your taxes, help those in need, care for the weak and invalid, love your neighbors, and do unto others as you would have done to you. This should not only apply to stocking your Food Pantry at your church, but supporting efforts to alleviate suffering throughout your community and beyond.

And no, I am not a Christian, but I was one for over 29 yrs. I taught the youth in our church and was elected as a Deacon during my final 2 years at my church. So I am not ignorant of Christian theology. I am just amazed at the amount of selfishness displayed by many professing Christians today who would withhold care and prevention of death and disability to those less fortunate than themselves.

I believe Jesus would support National Health Care, many of his focus points resemble socialism.