Would this Change your Position on Abortion?

[Thanda]

I don't think that positing on how long people have thought on a subject is a useful or helpful path through discussion. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean that they haven't thought about it.

I have never made that assumption. I am simply asserting that someone can spend a long time thinking about a subject end yet never consider certain view points that might change their way of thinking. So declaring how long you have thought about the subject doesn't tell us you have considered it from all angles.

 

[RRex]

I have never made that assumption. I am simply asserting that someone can spend a long time thinking about a subject end yet never consider certain view points that might change their way of thinking. So declaring how long you have thought about the subject doesn't tell us you have considered it from all angles.

You are low mileage. Maybe you should think long and deep about that.

 

[RRex]

My comment was a general comment. You then made it about yourself by telling how old you are. When I critique your argument you take offence. This is unlike our last subject of conversation - this is getting tiring.

You don't give other people much credit for brains.

How is this about just me?

 

[Thanda]

You are low mileage. Maybe you should think long and deep about that.

Cool

 

[Thanda]

How is this about just me?

Your comment about your age was about you. When I critiqued it you said I don't give people credit for having brains - did you then jump from talking about yourself to talking about other people?

 

[Mister Emu]

I think you're making assumptions that you're not qualified to make.

I assert the only unqualified assumption is that the women who answered the Guttmacher survey were dishonest or obfuscating.

My grandmother could just as easily have cited health reasons as she could have cited "I didn't want to be pregnant in the first place" and you would categorize the former answer as a valid reason for an abortion and the latter as a "lifestyle abortion" that you don't approve of.

I believe you are not understanding the survey, it was not limited to one response. 72% selected at least three reasons and the median was four with as many as eight.

 

[Kori]

Nothing will change my views on abortion. What are my views? This: If a woman decides to have an abortion that is something she has to live with and die with. It's no one's concern but the woman. The Anti-choice ones, most Extremists, just are anti-choice in order to suppress women.

 

[Thanda]

Nothing will change my views on abortion. What are my views? This: If a woman decides to have an abortion that is something she has to live with and die with. It's no one's concern but the woman. The Anti-choice ones, most Extremists, just are anti-choice in order to suppress women.

Only those who believe a woman is the only relevant party in a pregnancy situation think those who oppose abortion do it "just..to suppress women".

 

[Mister Emu]

The Anti-choice ones, most Extremists, just are anti-choice in order to suppress women.

Here we go again...

You have neither the knowledge to assert this, nor the capacity to determine it. Rephrased, it has no discernible connection to reality, it is just fanciful nonsense.

 

[FTNZ]

Here we go again...

You have neither the knowledge to assert this, nor the capacity to determine it. Rephrased, it has no discernible connection to reality, it is just fanciful nonsense.

When anyone assumes they have the right to make decisions about another (mentally competent adult) person's healthcare choices, that indicates disregard for the other person's rights. Further, any objective assessment of the views of most people who vocally express anti-choice views will show they also hold anti-women views. How can it be otherwise, when they are literally trying to control the bodies of people who happen to have a uterus.

The "abortion debate" comes down to fetuses against women. It's impossible to be neutral, people must pick a side. If you pick fetuses, you cannot be considered pro-women. You just cannot.

 

[Thanda]

The "abortion debate" comes down to fetuses against women. It's impossible to be neutral, people must pick a side. If you pick fetuses, you cannot be considered pro-women. You just cannot.

Absolute and undiluted nonsense! It is like saying that raping is about a man's right to have sex whenever he wants it; and that picking the women's side means you cannot be pro men.

 

[Kori]

Only those who believe a woman is the only relevant party in a pregnancy situation think those who oppose abortion do it "just..to suppress women".

Ok give us some significant examples of how anti-choice and anti-women do not go hand in hand in most cases. Yes I am sure there are exceptions. But I am asking for something significant not just something.

 

[Thanda]

Ok give us some significant examples of how anti-choice and anti-women do not go hand in hand in most cases. Yes I am sure there are exceptions. But I am asking for something significant not just something.

Anti-choice in respect of what, abortion?

 

[Kori]

Anti-choice in respect of what, abortion?

The Religious Extremists tend to be anti-everything women. I know because one asked me how did I treat my girlfriend and I said: With equality. He found that to be unacceptable. He actually got offended that I treated her that good. Because, from his words from the Bible, Women are suppose to be submissive to men. What could go wrong with that idea?

If I have a girlfriend or wife, got her prego and she wanted an abortion the only thing I would do is have her really think about it. I wouldn't harass her about it but I would want her to think about it. I do think abortion is taking a life but at the same time it's not my body it is hers. Like I said: it is something she will have to live with and die with.

 

[Mister Emu]

Ok give us some significant examples of how anti-choice and anti-women do not go hand in hand in most cases.

The pro-murder(if you insist on rejecting accepted nomenclature, so be it) side, assuming a roughly 50% split has supported the killing of roughly 29 million females in America. The pro-life side has fought for their freedom to live. Clearly, pro-life is pro-women and pro-murder just wants to keep killing our defenseless girls.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I assert the only unqualified assumption is that the women who answered the Guttmacher survey were dishonest or obfuscating.

I don't think you have any basis on which to make such an assertion.

I believe you are not understanding the survey, it was not limited to one response. 72% selected at least three reasons and the median was four with as many as eight.

I think that would help to reinforce my point, but I don’t see anywhere in the methodology where it indicates what you say here.



"METHODS: In 2004, a structured survey was completed by 1,209 abortion patients at 11 large providers, and in-depth

interviews were conducted with 38 women at four sites. Bivariate analyses examined differences in the reasons for

abortion across subgroups, and multivariate logistic regression models assessed associations between respondent

characteristics and reported reasons."

https://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3711005.pdf

 

[FTNZ]

Absolute and undiluted nonsense! It is like saying that raping is about a man's right to have sex whenever he wants it; and that picking the women's side means you cannot be pro men.

You might want to google the false equivalency logical fallacy.

 

[Thanda]

The Religious Extremists tend to be anti-everything women. I know because one asked me how did I treat my girlfriend and I said: With equality. He found that to be unacceptable. He actually got offended that I treated her that good. Because, from his words from the Bible, Women are suppose to be submissive to men. What could go wrong with that idea?

If I have a girlfriend or wife, got her prego and she wanted an abortion the only thing I would do is have her really think about it. I wouldn't harass her about it but I would want her to think about it. I do think abortion is taking a life but at the same time it's not my body it is hers. Like I said: it is something she will have to live with and die with.

Okay, but you haven't answered my question. What did you mean by pro-choice. Did you mean pro-choice in any subject or just pro-choice with respect to abortion only?

 

[Thanda]

You might want to google the false equivalency logical fallacy.

I don't need to google anything. The point is, it is a logical fallacy to assume that believing women shouldn't be allowed to kill defenseless babies means you are not pro-woman. The argument simply doesn't even begin to make sense.

 

[FTNZ]

The Religious Extremists tend to be anti-everything women. I know because one asked me how did I treat my girlfriend and I said: With equality. He found that to be unacceptable. He actually got offended that I treated her that good. Because, from his words from the Bible, Women are suppose to be submissive to men. What could go wrong with that idea?

If I have a girlfriend or wife, got her prego and she wanted an abortion the only thing I would do is have her really think about it. I wouldn't harass her about it but I would want her to think about it. I do think abortion is taking a life but at the same time it's not my body it is hers. Like I said: it is something she will have to live with and die with.

I agree that abortion is taking a life, but there is an unassailable conflict between the life of the women and the fetus, and only one of them is a legal person. Only one of them can be.

I think that talking about abortion in terms of something the woman will have to live and die with is not ideal. If we recognise that it's a medical choice and not "murder", I think we should support the woman to make a free choice without emotional blackmail overtones. I'm not saying you deliberately use emotional blackmail, I really don't think you do, but I'm suggesting that the way we talk about the issue is important. I proactively and consciously support women having a free choice to choose this procedure, and I respect that right enough to say no more about it.