Would you allow your child to marry and Atheist?

[richardlowellt]

And where have you gotten this definition, and who was doing the defining? Humility does not encompass ANY of these, except maybe a lack of pride, which I see as no bad thing. (Pride and confidence are two different things. Synonyms, yes, but not completely equal in definition.)

This is the definition found in any dictionary, look it up.

What does being "professional" have anything to do with anything? An artist who earns money from his or her work is not any different than an artist who does not.

I guess we are talking about different things here, I'm a performing musician/arranger/composer/conductor/musical director/sound mixer/teacher. A musician who earns his money from his work is a lot different from one who does not. I can't make mistakes in anything I do, my work always has to be at the highest level at all times, I have to complete writing projects in very tight time frames and the work must be not only creative and to assignment, but mistake free. Musicians who do not make their living from their work have non of these parameters.

There's nothing wrong with taking a business attitude towards ADVERTISING your own work; in fact, a business attitude is essential. However, in the actual construct of a piece, it's not good to have. Maybe I needed to be more specific.

We are not talking about advertising.

Lofty? These aren't lofty at all. I don't throw them around. I honestly believe them, and have been given no reason whatsoever not to. I don't throw around concepts I don't understand.

You are applying them to my situation, they are concepts that don't work in my profession.

And "weekend warrior"... that's a term I'm not familiar with. Where does it come from?

It comes from musicians who call themselves professionals but only work in wedding bands on the weekend, usually bad ones.

Like I said, in the ADVERTISING your work successfully, a confident attitude is required if you want to get an edge. I think we both understand this already. In such a case, you need to let your producers, as well as the people, know why they should buy your record and not someone elses'. Taking a humble attitude in such advertising is not only a detriment, it's also insulting and awkward to the ones your advertising to. (One time, a person once advertised his Youtube page to me, and stated, rather humbly, that I would probably not even look at it or regard the ad. Guilt-tripping at it's finest, and it's insulting.)

As I said this is not advertising, but performing, composing, or being apart of a project at some level. Ok---I'm a lead trumpet player on a show, it's my responsibility to see that everyone knows how certain passages must be performed, I dictate how the music is to be phrases, which notes are long or short, I dictate the time feel, intonation, all on me, I can't afford humility.--------Now I'm a conductor/musical director, in front of me is a 20 piece orchestra, I have been entrusted by a client, sometimes a vocalist, to have this music performed flawlessly, time is a huge factor especially in a recording situation, It's is critical for me to adopt a superior attitude, I can not accept mistakes of any kind from myself or those I a directing, once again humility in these instances is deadly. Hope this gives you some insight as to how these traits you find offensive, become absolutely necessary.
But advertising the art is independent of the piece itself. In the actual construction of a piece, it's important to maintain a humble attitude, otherwise you risk getting married to your work.

Personally, I don't see how humility and confidence are incompatible.

By the way, I do eventually intend to make money off of books, and hopefully even film. I already have ideas, but I don't have the knowledge or the skills to implement them.

[/QUOTE]By all means go for it, good luck!

 

[Kathryn]

Quote:
When life gets hard, people turn to their faith, their belief system, for guidance and comfort.

How unfortunate that if true, they use religion as a sort of crutch, not able to face adversity on their own, not having the inner strength they need. I my opinion that is one of the dangers of religion, substituting a comforting imaginary being for guidance.

Please note that I didn't say they turn to their RELIGION for comfort and guidance. I said they turn to their belief system of faith. Faith can be in any number of things - God, people, intellect, science, or any combination of those. And we all have a belief system which we use to make decisions, to structure our lives, and which we view life through.

I think it's best not to pair up with someone whose core beliefs differ greatly from your own. You're adding an additional level of stress to lives that are going to incur plenty of stress anyway.

A good example of how religion can be a poison. Maybe someday it will be eradicated like the disease that it is.

Once again, your paranoia seems to be showing. I did not mention religion in this statement. Two people whose basic approach to life, philosophy, decision-making, and values differ greatly are adding additional stress factors to a relationship.

 

[Kathryn]

Religion should be a private thing, not subject to the approval by others, either in a marriage situation, or otherwise.

Interesting. However, you're leaving out a particularly delicious and precious part of many marriages - shared faith, shared prayer, shared religious observances, shared decisions based on mutual values that we HELP each other adhere to when things get hard.

You apparently don't want that in a relationship, but many people do. I suggest that those who do marry someone else who shares that desire.

Thanks for helping me prove a point though.

 

[Light On]

Would I allow my child to marry an atheist? Of course not.

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" 2 Cor. 6:14

 

[Kathryn]

I have a few more points to make - about art.

In a sense, all of us are artists. Let me give an example:

I am what people generally think of as "artsy." By this I mean, I play the piano (and I was the paid music director for a large church for several years), I paint murals (for example, at the local high school) and sets for local theater productions, I write human interest stories for some regional publications, and I enjoy working with pastels, charcoal, pen and ink, that sort of thing - portraits are my favorite sort of thing to do with those mediums.

I don't make a living off any of these ventures, nor do I have any desire to rely on these for my main source of income, though I am paid sometimes for some of these artistic projects. If I preferred to be an independent contractor, I could probably develop any one of these talents into a career - but I prefer doing them for ENJOYMENT rather than adding the stress of actually having to make a living at it to my art.

I could be better at any of these things if I really put my mind to it. But I am no Michaelangelo, or Mozart, or Shakespeare - never will be.

That's just me. I greatly admire true artists, by the way - paid or unpaid.

Now - here's my point. My husband is always saying to me, "Honey, you are so talented - I wish I was as artistic and talented as you." Personally, I think he's way off target on this.

My husband is an operations manager for a large company. His working life consists of managing multi million dollar projects, moving people and equipment around a tri state area, exceeding customer expectations, and managing the skill sets, hours and egos of a wide range of employees.

My husband IS an artist. He just doesn't know it.

In fact, I consider him much more talented than me.

We all have the capability to be artists - in our own realm of talents. Anytime we do something well, something beautifully, something perfect or filled with integrity, we have produced a work of art.

 

[richardlowellt]

I have a few more points to make - about art.

In a sense, all of us are artists. Let me give an example:

I am what people generally think of as "artsy." By this I mean, I play the piano (and I was the paid music director for a large church for several years), I paint murals (for example, at the local high school) and sets for local theater productions, I write human interest stories for some regional publications, and I enjoy working with pastels, charcoal, pen and ink, that sort of thing - portraits are my favorite sort of thing to do with those mediums.

I don't make a living off any of these ventures, nor do I have any desire to rely on these for my main source of income, though I am paid sometimes for some of these artistic projects. If I preferred to be an independent contractor, I could probably develop any one of these talents into a career - but I prefer doing them for ENJOYMENT rather than adding the stress of actually having to make a living at it to my art.

I could be better at any of these things if I really put my mind to it. But I am no Michaelangelo, or Mozart, or Shakespeare - never will be.

That's just me. I greatly admire true artists, by the way - paid or unpaid.

Now - here's my point. My husband is always saying to me, "Honey, you are so talented - I wish I was as artistic and talented as you." Personally, I think he's way off target on this.

My husband is an operations manager for a large company. His working life consists of managing multi million dollar projects, moving people and equipment around a tri state area, exceeding customer expectations, and managing the skill sets, hours and egos of a wide range of employees.

My husband IS an artist. He just doesn't know it.

In fact, I consider him much more talented than me.

We all have the capability to be artists - in our own realm of talents. Anytime we do something well, something beautifully, something perfect or filled with integrity, we have produced a work of art.

I'm glad that definition makes you feel good.

 

[Kathryn]

I'm glad that definition makes you feel good.

It's not a matter of feeling good with me - I don't believe things just because they make me feel good.

I believe that art is all around us - if we have eyes that are open enough to see it, ears that are able to pick up on beautiful sounds that may not even register with others.

If we are attuned to appreciate excellence, we will recognize a scent that is perfectly balanced, a textile that feels absolutely splendid against the skin, one beautiful solitary note in a song, a note that others may never notice. But beyond that, there is art in a perfectly proportioned faucet, even if it's considered utilitarian. There's art in the perfectly spaced bouncing braids festooned with multicolored beads, on the dark head of the seven year old little girl standing in the line at the cafeteria. When my husband can simply stand in a two acre spot at the end of a gravel road out in the middle of nowhere, and can map out how he can get 30 huge pieces of machinery, trailers, chuckwagons, and 40 people out there and still run a safe and efficient operation - that takes a certain art of perception.

I truly pity anyone who can't savor the artistic merit of some of the less appreciated things in life.

 

[andys]

Interesting how the topic has evolved (devolved?) from the original question posed, as to whether or not one would allow/want one's child to marry an atheist, to topics such as humility and art. I think another thread may be in order. (I wish I knew how to start one, but I haven't a clue.)

For the record, I am a (retired) professional "artist" (Graphic Designer) who was quite successful and well respected in my field. I later went on to teach design in college.

Regarding humility, I can tell you that if you lack it, no matter how talented you may think you are, you are deluding yourself by creating a dream world not unlike the ethereal "heaven" of the Christian mind—and equally pathetic. It's like the Beatle's "Nowhere Man" who "just sees what he wants to see". Granted, having confidence in one's ability is important, perhaps requisite for success in some highly competitive professions, but arrogance is another matter. It threatens to stifle its host's drive to push the boundaries and learn from others' innovations. It isn't noble to be modest; it's just plain narrow-minded not to be!

I do, in fact, liken arrogance with religious belief, since both involve a healthy dose of self delusion and self gratification. One might rephrase the original question to: "Would you want your son/daughter to marry a theist or self delusional person?"

 

[Kerr]

Would I allow my child to marry an atheist? Of course not.

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" 2 Cor. 6:14

Out of curiosity, what if your child refuses to listen?

 

[linwood]

Out of curiosity, what if your child refuses to listen?

Psalm:9
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Just kiddin`..really.

 

[Kerr]

Psalm:9
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Just kiddin`..really.

I don´t understand that anyway . Me and verses are not a good mix, lol.

 

[Light On]

Out of curiosity, what if your child refuses to listen?

Then I'd simply have no control over them I guess :areyoucra

Kind of hard to force someone to marry someone else when they want to marry another. You just... Can't.