Gloone
Well-Known Member
Its alright I have the box-of-souls, mail will get redirected to them and if i have anything important they will be sure i get the message.
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Would you buy it?
- Thread starter Meow Mix
- Start date
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Back to square one.
Articles of faith need not be proven...see Webster's.
Theology is not based on physical evidence.
Still it remains...nothing just happens....spirit first...then the creation.
The Neo Nerd
Well-Known Member
Yes you are indeed correct faith does not need to be proven.
Of course if it could be proven you wouldn't need to have faith in it now, would you?
Let's face it no matter how you spin it, you are saying "stop thinking, start believing"
Which is why your argument will not make me believe in god.
-Q
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Would a justification for "god" allow you to believe in "god"? Is that your goal? You mentioned earlier religions getting a convert... *poof!* I hope you know it doesn't really work that way.
Justification for "god" won't rid your world of the lack of justification for "god." Both necessarily exist (as part of "the creation").
You're overlapping things I've said. Unless you listen, I'm not going to be the one to straighten you out.
What do you mean by "both necessarily exist?" I am listening, but even though you profess objectivism I get deeply confused by many of your statements that reek of subjectivism. You'll say yes I agree there is one reality then make statements like "Both necessarily exist," where "both" is mutually exclusive and contradictory.
"Both" can't necessarily exist if they are contradictory statements in objective reality! Either there is justification for gods or there is not justification for gods, sort of like being pregnant or not. It's dichotomous.
If there is justification for theism then atheism is untenable (given warrant)
If there isn't justification for theism then theism is untenable (given warrant)
So yes, it would be "poof" just like that because given a valid justification that provides warrant for theism I would be forced to admit that theism is rational.
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Sorry to confuse. I don't profess objectivism or subjectivism --they are dualistic philosophies, inherent of reality split into two.
Both can exist, if contradictions exist, and it's my understanding that they do. But regardless, speaking from both atheist and theist perspective, what I was saying was that the image of "God" goes beyond contradictions.
Good luck with your poofing, though.
I think the issue is that when it comes to really fundamental beliefs, people don't believe them in isolation; they believe them as part of an all-encompassing mental model.
If a theist has a model in which every single thing is connected to God in some way, and the model generally agrees pretty well with reality (as most mental models do if they last at all), then this agreement will be taken as justification of the belief.
The problem arises from the fact that even though God-belief feels fundamental to the mental model, it isn't actually a factor in most of the predictions that the model makes.
This is indeed the argument Plantinga makes when he argues that theism is properly basic. Properly basic beliefs are what you're talking about here, like foundations upon which everything else is built on.
However theists have no justification for theism to be properly basic. That's the problem.
Philosophically basic? I agree - there's probably no justification to consider theism to be so. Practically basic, maybe... life would be pretty difficult if we didn't believe anything at all. As a matter of practical necessity, we have to start with some sort of set of assumptions and continually evaluate and revise them as they they're tested and found lacking. It does seem that we're born with some sort of innate, rudimentary god-belief (I've heard it described as "low-grade animism"), and plenty of people are raised in religions. We don't have a lot of say in what our initial, baseless (by definition, at least to begin with) assumptions are going to be.
The problem is that the beliefs in that first basic set of assumptions that never get tested never get found lacking.
The problem is that the beliefs in that first basic set of assumptions that never get tested never get found lacking.
BucephalusBB
ABACABB
I would buy it just before I am about to die, when money became useless for me. Statistics.
lol, that's like an altered version of Pascal's wager for the box. Good point to bring up ;P
"Constantine's Wager", maybe?
blackout
Violet.
If I were to (attempt) to explain my Theism
I'm sure I would be told it does not count as Theism,
for the simple fact that it's as justified as anything else I do/particpate in
because it's meaningful, enriching, and enjoyable to me...
(such as)
*Playing the piano
*Singing/Chanting
*Writing posts on RF.... etc etc
If it is not possible to justify my involvement in these things,
nor is it possible to justify (my involvement in) any of those...
"other (occultish) things" ... I do.
If it is,
then I guess it is.
EDIT: The funny thing is,
it really doesn't matter to me.
I know it matters very very much
to some of you,
so I'm willing to engage in the conversation.
But I do the things I do
as I am inSpired uniquely
and for my own personal reason/s.
I hardly understand what other kind of justification you want.
Really I don't.
Why do I do ANYTHING I do?
It would be a damn lot of futile work
trying to explain and justify to 'other people'
all of the things I do
because 'other people' think I should.
Hint: Theism is something I DO,
not something I "believe".
and...
I am SELF justified.
I'm sure I would be told it does not count as Theism,
for the simple fact that it's as justified as anything else I do/particpate in
because it's meaningful, enriching, and enjoyable to me...
(such as)
*Playing the piano
*Singing/Chanting
*Writing posts on RF.... etc etc
If it is not possible to justify my involvement in these things,
nor is it possible to justify (my involvement in) any of those...
"other (occultish) things"
... I do.If it is,
then I guess it is.
EDIT: The funny thing is,
it really doesn't matter to me.
I know it matters very very much
to some of you,
so I'm willing to engage in the conversation.
But I do the things I do
as I am inSpired uniquely
and for my own personal reason/s.
I hardly understand what other kind of justification you want.
Really I don't.
Why do I do ANYTHING I do?
It would be a damn lot of futile work
trying to explain and justify to 'other people'
all of the things I do
because 'other people' think I should.
Hint: Theism is something I DO,
not something I "believe".
and...
I am SELF justified.
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Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
It's a moot question, as I'd just end up blowing the money on booze, drugs, and hookers.
blackout
Violet.
A few models that might better fit your style?
Or perhaps something a bit more in your price range?
Haha! I shudda been a sales person.
*suddenly wants to sell boxes*
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Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Tempting Vi, but I want to be cremated. I find it creepy to preserve my body and bury it in a box, as well as a ridiculous waste of land.
Wotan
Active Member
Atomist
I love you.
Why do you care what they do to your body when you die. Let your loved ones do whatever they want... Funerals aren't for the dead...