Would you buy it?

[Wotan]

I don't know what that means.

Look up "counter intuitive."

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Well...though some digression happens....

Could your question be aimed at the 'box'?

Yes you are right, i should aim my questions at the box.

Here goes:


[ /prayer]
Dear Box,

My keen sense of observation has noted that Thief thinks there is some kind of flaw in my reasoning.

Do you think he will be able to explain what those flaws are?

Thankyou,

-Quaxotic [ /prayer]

 

[Walkntune]

I'm not saying that we shouldn't say "That looks like a face," but there's quite a difference between saying "That looks like a face" and "That's an intentionally designed structure in the deliberate shape of a face." That's the point I'm making here. Believing through intuition unchecked by reason is untenable.

I think you are misusing intuition here.
If you are coming to some kind of conclusion based on appearance then you are
using perception.
ntuition [ˌɪntjʊˈɪʃən]n1. knowledge or belief obtained neither by reason nor by perception
2. instinctive knowledge or belief

Yes it is tricky that we are still instinctively connected to the Universe and can receive information without reason and perception somehow?

 

[Meow Mix]

I think you are misusing intuition here.
If you are coming to some kind of conclusion based on appearance then you are
using perception.
ntuition [ˌɪntjʊˈɪʃən]n1. knowledge or belief obtained neither by reason nor by perception
2. instinctive knowledge or belief

Yes it is tricky that we are still instinctively connected to the Universe and can receive information without reason and perception somehow?

My example of intuition was perception-based but I do know what intuition is. Also, the face-example was geared towards a discussion I was having regarding our genetic predispositions toward some behaviors (in this case, seeing faces where there are not really faces).

My point still stands: intuition alone is insufficient; it must be tempered with reason to be useful.

 

[Walkntune]

My example of intuition was perception-based but I do know what intuition is. Also, the face-example was geared towards a discussion I was having regarding our genetic predispositions toward some behaviors (in this case, seeing faces where there are not really faces).

My point still stands: intuition alone is insufficient; it must be tempered with reason to be useful.

For intiuion to come to a definite fact of knowledge I agree.
For intuition to tell most of the population that there is something out there past our five senses,
we may not know exactly what it is but it there is probably something out there.

 

[Wotan]

For intiuion to come to a definite fact of knowledge I agree.
For intuition to tell most of the population that there is something out there past our five senses,
we may not know exactly what it is but it there is probably something out there.

But even arguendo accepting that provides NO justification. None whatever.

And that - you seem to be unable to grasp - justification is what is MISSING in your mythology.

 

[Meow Mix]

For intiuion to come to a definite fact of knowledge I agree.
For intuition to tell most of the population that there is something out there past our five senses,
we may not know exactly what it is but it there is probably something out there.

Read Wotan's reply for the gyst of what I'd say as well, but I'll add that even if intuition says there might be "something" beyond our five senses, it's a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong walk from "something" to "God." Agreed?

 

[Walkntune]

But even arguendo accepting that provides NO justification. None whatever.

And that - you seem to be unable to grasp - justification is what is MISSING in your mythology.

Its not that it is missing for me, it is missing for you. People used fire a long time before they had the justifications of the chemical breakdown of how and why it should work.
I have been freed from my old wretched self and that is enough justification for me. I am free from the bondage of depression,having to control everything.I let go consciously of that which keeps me in bondage and find a love and a high that people throw away good fortunes to get.What more justification do I need?

 

[Meow Mix]

Its not that it is missing for me, it is missing for you. People used fire a long time before they had the justifications of the chemical breakdown of how and why it should work.

No, this doesn't work as an objection because they certainly had justification that fire worked. I don't know how my car engine works (not really) but I have justification for believing my car will get me to work.

I have been freed from my old wretched self and that is enough justification for me. I am free from the bondage of depression,having to control everything.I let go consciously of that which keeps me in bondage and find a love and a high that people throw away good fortunes to get.What more justification do I need?

All you have justification of is that you are not depressed and have control; you don't have justification for a belief that God-did-it (that you've espoused anyway).

 

[Walkntune]

=Meow Mix;2199064]No, this doesn't work as an objection because they certainly had justification that fire worked. I don't know how my car engine works (not really) but I have justification for believing my car will get me to work.

Maybe you should scientifically inspect each bolt first. Faith can be a dangerous thing.

All you have justification of is that you are not depressed and have control; you don't have justification for a belief that God-did-it (that you've espoused anyway).

[/QUOTE]
Well I have peace and joy. Why mess up a method that works to stand on knowledge that doesn't work and is going to change tomorrow.

 

[linwood]

What's different between believing in gods and believing in the box?

You can see the box.
You can feel the box.

The box exists whether or not it can do what the box salesman said it could do.

However, if I had 1k to blow on a box I`d buy a new laptop instead.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Walky i have a question.

Your definition of intuition is

ntuition [ˌɪntjʊˈɪʃən]n1. knowledge or belief obtained neither by reason nor by perception
2. instinctive knowledge or belief

Now how as a rational, intelligent human being able to tell the difference between:

a. Intuition
b. Fantasy
c. Unconscious desires

-Q

 

[Walkntune]

Walky i have a question.

Your definition of intuition is

Now how as a rational, intelligent human being able to tell the difference between:

a. Intuition
b. Fantasy
c. Unconscious desires

-Q

I say go with your instinct. It was given to us by nature for a reason. Iam sure it works.

 

[Meow Mix]

Maybe you should scientifically inspect each bolt first. Faith can be a dangerous thing.

Different context of faith; I'm justified in believing my car will get me to work via induction. That's wholly different from "having faith" in the existence of something without justification. I know my car exists, I know it takes me places, and best of all I can in principle learn exactly how it works and everyone on earth who's studied the same will agree on the same thing.

Compare that to belief in gods: you don't know gods exist, you only guess that things that happen to you are caused by gods and not coincidence/wishful thinking/affirmation fallacy, you can't in principle go somewhere and learn exactly the justifications for how a god does in fact exist and end up with everyone agreeing on the same thing.

The reason everyone would agree on how an engine works once understood is because it's justifiable; testable. In this case it's empirical, but the same can be said for unempirical things like... say... a fractal from mathematics (everyone would agree on its attributes because it's justifiable).

Well I have peace and joy. Why mess up a method that works to stand on knowledge that doesn't work and is going to change tomorrow.

I don't deny that believing might bring you peace and joy, but I also don't deny that sugar pills make people's headaches feel better if they believe it's ibuprofin.

 

[Wotan]

"I am free from the bondage of depression,having to control everything.I let go consciously of that which keeps me in bondage and find a love and a high that people throw away good fortunes to get.What more justification do I need?"

Whoopy. I am so happy for you.

But that is NOT what is at issue. We asked for justification that would appeal in ANY rational mind. Not simply to your personal experience but to ANY reasoning person. Simply telling us your heart warming touching and oh so maudlin life's story does NOT justify your mythology to anybody but YOU.

And telling us that large numbers of others share your "intuition" is simply an argument from popularity. More people than the number you claim once believed the earth was flat. Citing numbers proves nothing.

Except the paucity of you arsenal of intelligent answers.

 

[Meow Mix]

You can see the box.
You can feel the box.

The box exists whether or not it can do what the box salesman said it could do.

However, if I had 1k to blow on a box I`d buy a new laptop instead.

The analogy is clear that it's what's IN the box that's important, but you can't look at it.

This can be comparable to... say... being able to see and feel a holy text; but the contents of the holy text are what matters (the divine inspiration, etc.)

I'd like a laptop at all, this ol' desktop is really starting to get on my nerves, particularly with this stupid nvlddmkm error I keep getting thanks to Vista 64 bit... it's GARBAGE. Nobody ever bother with 64 bit OS's until they support them better, you've been warned!

 

[Wotan]

"I don't deny that believing might bring you peace and joy, but I also don't deny that sugar pills make people's headaches feel better if they believe it's ibuprofin."

Frubals. May I steal that line?

 

[Wotan]

"I'd like a laptop at all, this ol' desktop is really starting to get on my nerves, particularly with this stupid nvlddmkm error I keep getting thanks to Vista 64 bit... it's GARBAGE. Nobody ever bother with 64 bit OS's until they support them better, you've been warned!"

Yeah, I stayed away from all the upgrades. Really since XP windows has been one lo-o-o-ng error.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

I say go with your instinct. It was given to us by nature for a reason. Iam sure it works.

Would we not have to rule out the other two before deciding on intuition?

-Q

 

[Walkntune]

Would we not have to rule out the other two before deciding on intuition?

-Q

No they are formed in the mind where intuition is more so in the gut.