Would you marry a gay couple...

[McBell]

Fact is marriage is for family.

Except that it is not a fact....

Observation since our government started a war on poverty and started doing marriage certificates our child birth outside of marriage has went from 7% to 70%.

source please.

 

[Neo Deist]

...and got his people to do it for him, but Jehovah stated in the scriptures of 1 Timothy 3:16 , that "All scripture is inspired of God..."

Jehovah did not state anything. People made the claim that God said "..."

...but those was his words that was in it...

"Those 'was' his words?" How about "those were His words."

...when you wasn't even there to witness it?

"When you wasn't..." Good grief. Try "weren't" instead, or better yet just say "you were not there to witness it."

BTW, you were not there to witness that they were inspired by God. Which leads us back to square one where people made the claim that God inspired them, spoke to them, guided them, etc. The kicker is that you can't prove any of that. You have to have blind faith that what they said thousands of years ago was true, or you can be a skeptic...like me. I deal with facts and evidence, not flights of fancy.

 

[serp777]

I am an ordained minister, I live in the USA, and I grew up as a very conservative Southern Baptist in Alabama. Knowing that...

I was recently asked if I would ever marry a gay couple. My answer was, YES. The person that asked me that was taken back by my lack of hesitation in my answer. They could not believe what they just heard.

After they recovered from the initial shock, they asked "why?" This was my answer:

In this country, there is a separation of Church and State. The government (State) can't dictate to the Church how it is to be run, what to believe, or who can serve in a clergy-capacity. By the same token, the Church can't dictate the law to the government, regardless of what the issues might be.

I went on to explain that not everyone in this country is a Christian, so why should everyone be subject to Christian "law?" The US Constitution grants rights to all of its citizens, regardless of race, gender, religious beliefs or sexual orientation. Gays have the exact same rights as everyone else, and that includes being married.

That person was speechless. I added that I personally do not agree with a gay lifestyle, but it is not my place to discriminate or judge. To each their own in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

At that point they tried to make some type of come back and the best they could was to mutter something about children seeing two guys kissing in public. While I understand the confusion that might cause in a child, I actually can't recall a time that I have seen that happen. If it does, I will deal with it in my own way with regard to my children.

The last thing they mentioned was how gay men would be sexually abusive to children. I stopped them right there and explained that there is a HUGE difference between being gay and being a pedophile. People can be gay and have no attraction to children what-so-ever.

They walked off.

it seems like you should be against homosexuality. The bible is definitely against homosexuality and would never condone a gay marriage. The bible explicitly states that homosexuals should be punished or killed and that marriage is between a man or a woman.

This is why modern, liberal views are incompatible the bible and Christianity. This is why the entire old testament should be removed, and other parts of the new testament edited. Why are you even a Christian if you don't subscribe to Christian values? I think you should just become an agnostic.

 

[Neo Deist]

it seems like you should be against homosexuality. The bible is definitely against homosexuality and would never condone a gay marriage. The bible explicitly states that homosexuals should be punished or killed and that marriage is between a man or a woman.

This is why modern, liberal views are incompatible the bible and Christianity. This is why the entire old testament should be removed, and other parts of the new testament edited. Why are you even a Christian if you don't subscribe to Christian values? I think you should just become an agnostic.

Nah. I shall remain a deist. Agnostics say "I don't know if there is a god."

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

That is all very twisted but not unexpected given that people will believe anything negative they read on the internet about us. (Matthew 5:11-12) None of the above is true. There is no protection for wrongdoers in our brotherhood.

Tell that to all the abuse victims who've left the Jehovah's Witnesses because their claims of abuse were never investigated because your Church operates a broken system that stacks the odds against the victim. The two-witness rule, having to be in the presence of the perpetrator when talking to an elder about the experience.

Disfellowshipping is entirely biblical (1 Corinthians 5:9-13)

Jesus never said that though; Paul did. Jesus didn't judge and spent his time with whores, thieves and other ne'er-do-wells. If Jesus is supposed to be your ultimate source of inspiration why do you discard what he did and obey what Paul said?

People wouldn't find disfellowshipping so morally repugnant if you were just preventing them from coming to services. The problem we have is that it's a far more sinister practice than that. It involves consciously cutting people out of their lives for the non-crime of daring to doubt or challenge the Watchtower's narrative. Clearly they can't handle criticism or dissension.

and those who break God's law unrepentantly will not be permitted to remain in fellowship with the congregation because "a little leaven ferments the whole lump", as Jesus said.

See what I mean? You're being selective. You pay attention to what Jesus says here because it suits your cult's agenda; but you're happy to ignore the fact Jesus spent his time with social rejects and listen to what Paul wrote. Unless I'm mistaken, according to Jesus we've all fallen short of the glory of God - and some like the Pharisees were unrepentant in their 'sinful ways'. Did that stop Jesus from interacting with them even though they refused to repent? No.

Those who are expelled from the congregation removed themselves by their own conduct.

If that's true it would render the act of disfellowshipping redundant. You said above that disfellowshiping is biblical and quoted a Bible verse which you say tells you to disassociate yourselves from sinners. So either you disfellowshipped the 'wayward' or they did it themselves. Be consistent please.

They are given every opportunity to mend their ways, but some stubbornly refuse to admit that they did anything wrong....and just like Adam and Eve, they often want to blame anyone else but themselves.

Flawed analogy and flawed interpretation of the story; Adam & Eve didn't know what they were doing was wrong because they had no concept of right nor wrong until after they'd eaten from the Tree. Further, they admitted what they had done and didn't try to hide it. God threw them out of the Garden without giving them a chance to repent and they didn't at any point try to blame anyone else. Adam pointed out Eve had given him of the Tree so he ate - because she had; and Eve pointed out that the serpent convinced her to eat of the Tree because it did. That's explaining what happened.

The "support system" of their immediate family is withdrawn in the hope that, like the prodigal son, they will appreciate what they gave up for the temporary pleasure of sin. In that parable, the father did nothing to support his wayward son until he saw him returning home with a contrite spirit. It is the same with us.

It's not the same thing at all. The prodigal son's father didn't throw him out, refuse to speak to him and cut off all contact until he 'cleaned up his act'. The prodigal son left of his own volition and went away "to a far off country". Presumably where his father could get no word of him.

You're twisting the meaning of the parable here. It's no wonder most Christians view the Jehovah's Witnesses as a heretical movement if you can twist a story of hope and forgiveness like this into something more sinister.

Anyone willing to humble themselves and admit their mistakes is welcomed back. This is the case with many who are happy to be "home", corrected by the discipline, realizing that the world does not love them and will not care what they do. They then become "slaves to sin." (Romans 6:16)

And in the quite likely event you didn't read the parable of the prodigal son properly, when the son comes back the father rejoices to see him and runs out to greet him; embracing him before the young man has a chance to admit his mistakes. He doesn't refuse to have anything to do with the son until he admits his errors. That's unconditional love and forgiveness which is not what your cult practices.

Hebrews 12:5-6:
"...you have entirely forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons: “My son, do not belittle the discipline from Jehovah, nor give up when you are corrected by him;  for those whom Jehovah loves he disciplines, in fact, he scourges everyone whom he receives as a son.”

We guard our precious relationship with Jehovah and will not allow blatant wrongdoers to stay and insult God by their conduct and influence others who might be vulnerable.

And there's the problem. Child molesters won't be blatant about it else they'll be caught. In other words your cult doesn't mind for people to air their dirty laundry in private as long as nobody else can prove it.

I am always amazed that so many people can become experts on what JW's are, or are not, by reading the poisonous propaganda put out by those who only want revenge.
One sided sob stories always have another side but no one seems interested in finding out what might have really happened. Just remember that we will all be judged by how we judge.

Just because somebody only tells one side of a story does not mean that side is de facto wrong. The Watchtower has its secrets that it doesn't want others to know about or believe so, like other controlling organisations, it smears dissenting voices as being "out for revenge" or having a vested (and implicitly malign) interest in portraying the Watchtower as something it's not. Even if that were really the case a lot of the time; can you really blame the people for doing so? Your cult's leaders demand you sever all ties with people you've previously claimed to love and call 'brother' and cast them adrift; hoping that their being unprepared for the world will scare them into coming back, biting the bullet and subjecting themselves to Watchtower propaganda once again.

Would you like a disgruntled "ex" to tell the world about you?

Not if I was a manipulative ******* who controlled who my ex interacted with, told them to regard everyone else as sinful, that I alone was right about things, that my way alone was best, that she shouldn't question my decisions, ignored complaints that friends of mine were abusing her in some way because there were no independent witnesses and that when she seriously disobeyed or questioned me I would manipulate her friends and family into cutting off all contact with her 'for her own good'.

That's the Watchtower in a nutshell.

 

[McBell]

... but Jehovah stated in the scriptures of 1 Timothy 3:16 , that "All scripture is inspired of God..."

Where is the rest of the afore mentioned scripture and why is it not being acknowledged, let alone used?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

but Jehovah stated in the scriptures of 1 Timothy 3:16 , that "All scripture is inspired of God..."

Actually that particular verse reads: "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory."

No mention of scripture being inspired by God at all.

 

[savagewind]

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

People have turned the word translated all into every.

πᾶσα transliteration; every

Click on it here: http://biblehub.com/greek/pasa_3956.htm

How else is the word used?

all Jerusalem, all Judea, all the district, the whole herd, the whole city, all authority, whole creation, whole building

It is like saying all of Earth is for teaching. All of scripture is for teaching. Even lies teach. It is probable that I would know nothing about the Bible had it not been for the lies people tell.

 

[Demonslayer]

I haven't been following this thread, do the religious people still hate the gays?

 

[savagewind]

I haven't been following this thread, do the religious people still hate the gays?

Never! They hate the sin.

 

[Sonofason]

I haven't been following this thread, do the religious people still hate the gays?

No way, I pity the sinner, and only hate the sin.

 

[Draka]

I keep seeing this dumb argument that marriage is for the production of families. I keep seeing this argument against same sex marriage but yet I don't see it used to advocate against infertile people marrying. I don't see it used to advocate against elderly people getting married. I don't see it used to advocate restricting people who are infertile due to their own medical issues from marrying. Only homosexuals. Be consistent in your absurdity at least.

If Julie is infertile due to the fact that she had cancer when younger and had to have her ovaries or her whole uterus removed should she be restricted from ever marrying even though she is straight and wanted to marry a man? She can never bear children so she should never get married right? A union with her would never produce a biological family so she should be forbidden from marrying right? If you disagree and still use the whole "marriage is for family" argument against same sex marriage then you are a hypocrite out and out and have not one leg to stand upon.

And using some ridiculous argument trying to assert that homosexuals want to marry out of desire, out of sexual lust, is inane as well. Trying to say homosexuals are pursuing relationships purely out of sexual desire is to say that they don't love. That they don't have and experience the exact same feelings and emotions that heterosexuals do. Those feelings, those emotions, are human feelings and emotions. To assert that homosexuals are lust driven rather than love driven in their desire to be together you are basically calling them inhuman. How lovely. How "love thy neighbor" of you.

There is so much I could say here. So much wrong in the arguments against same sex marriage that I could probably fill pages, but I won't. It seems no matter how many times these things are pointed out it does no good as those people that should listen...don't.

And just to reiterate again, yes, I would happily officiate over a same sex marriage. Without hesitation or reservation. Love is love.

 

[Muffled]

I am an ordained minister, I live in the USA, and I grew up as a very conservative Southern Baptist in Alabama. Knowing that...

I was recently asked if I would ever marry a gay couple. My answer was, YES. The person that asked me that was taken back by my lack of hesitation in my answer. They could not believe what they just heard.

After they recovered from the initial shock, they asked "why?" This was my answer:

In this country, there is a separation of Church and State. The government (State) can't dictate to the Church how it is to be run, what to believe, or who can serve in a clergy-capacity. By the same token, the Church can't dictate the law to the government, regardless of what the issues might be.

I went on to explain that not everyone in this country is a Christian, so why should everyone be subject to Christian "law?" The US Constitution grants rights to all of its citizens, regardless of race, gender, religious beliefs or sexual orientation. Gays have the exact same rights as everyone else, and that includes being married.

That person was speechless. I added that I personally do not agree with a gay lifestyle, but it is not my place to discriminate or judge. To each their own in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

At that point they tried to make some type of come back and the best they could was to mutter something about children seeing two guys kissing in public. While I understand the confusion that might cause in a child, I actually can't recall a time that I have seen that happen. If it does, I will deal with it in my own way with regard to my children.

The last thing they mentioned was how gay men would be sexually abusive to children. I stopped them right there and explained that there is a HUGE difference between being gay and being a pedophile. People can be gay and have no attraction to children what-so-ever.

They walked off.

I believe I would not and any pastor doing so I would consider apostate from the faith. No Christian on earth should ever think that their beliefs and consequent actions should be ordained or prohibited by a government.

 

[Muffled]

I'd never marry a gay couple.
I'm not a bigamist.

I believe that is a Christian view and not an atheistic one.

 

[Revoltingest]

I believe that is a Christian view and not an atheistic one.

Atheism is silent upon bigamy.
Mrs Revolt, on the other hand......let's just say I don't want to discover if she knows kung fu in addition to kung pao.

 

[Muffled]

for me marriage is simply joining two people together, heterosexuals don't own the monopoly of being married, after all their not that good at it.

I believe one can never join what doesn't fit and any carpenter could tell you that or maybe you have heard the saying that you can't put a square peg in a round hole.

 

[Muffled]

Atheism is silent upon bigamy.
Mrs Revolt, on the other hand......let's just say I don't want to discover if she knows kung fu in addition to kung pao.

I believe the saying is that hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. At any rate I suppose you either acceded to someone else's beliefs or just followed the leading of the hormones.

 

[Muffled]

Not all Christians and denominations share your view on it.

I don't believe I recognize them as being Christian.

 

[Revoltingest]

I believe the saying is that hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. At any rate I suppose you either acceded to someone else's beliefs or just followed the leading of the hormones.

I'm really rather boring.....no desire to carry on with other women.

 

[Draka]

I don't believe I recognize them as being Christian.

I don't believe they care what you recognize them as.