Wrong to Cheat on Partner?

[Badran]

By using words like honor, I'm trying to avoid using the word eudaimonia again, which is not a particularly common word and yet is most applicable here.

What I mean is, using words like honor, and perhaps words like dignity, truth, virtue, objectivity, etc- there are certain kinds of happiness worth having because it aligns with truth and reality, and there are kinds of happiness that nobody would pick because they are based on false things. Virtually nobody would choose to live a life of happiness that was also based on a lie.

The point of the example is to illustrate that there is more that matters to you than just what you experience. Despite choice a) being the subjectively happier experience, you picked choice b). A person cares not only for the subjective experience of happiness, but also cares that their experience of happiness lines up with reality.

A person who cheats denies their spouse this kind of objective happiness. It renders their happiness the type that isn't based on reality, and isn't the type that most people would choose for their self. If one loves their partner, they would do well to avoid depriving their spouse of the sort of happiness that they would seek.

A person who doesn't wish to define and express their self as someone who is willing to break obligations, promises, and trust whenever they are certain they won't be caught and there won't be tangible consequences, despite the fact that it would hurt the person if they were to know, would do well to avoid cheating. If they care more about objective happiness than simply subjective happiness based on an illusion, and understand that their partner probably feels the same, and if they truly love their partner, why would they cheat?

Thank you Penumbra, the part in bold in particular makes pretty good sense to me.

I'd be making a choice for them that they wouldn't make for themselves, which is unfair.

 

[Magic Man]

Yeah thats true, but that doesn't in itself necessarily give them any value.



I can almost accept that as an explanation, but i need to know in what terms are you viewing honor, or how are you defining it.



Most likely, but i wouldn't say it must be because of that. It could be hidden for a reason concerned with the person hiding it, not because of anything related to the partner.



Not just getting away with it though, there's also the part that nobody's life has been affected in anyway, no damage has been done (at least until you tell me what you mean by honor).



That example only enforces my position that its wrong to do this only based on the lack of damage, and i agree it would be wrong in that case. But of course because its an example, it doesn't help me in the department of explaining why its wrong. That will possibly be accomplished when you define honor.



I'd choose the second regardless of there being an explanation or not for why its better, because i like it better.

However there is a little problem with this example. The objective damage that happened here i can explain why i wouldn't want, why i would prefer my life to be the second scenario, but i can't do the same in the other case.



I'll have to wait here also until you tell me how you define honor.



Me neither, however i'm addressing those situations. I already accepted a couple of situations, and now i'm trying to see if the mere lack of damage is grounds for it to be accepted as well. I don't think it is, but to be sure i need to be able to explain why it isn't.

I want to clarify something on the side for anybody reading this, that i'm here not continuing on the definition of cheating i reached with mball, since Penumbra hasn't addressed this based on it.

What do you think of this idea:

Cheating and not having anyone find out and continuing your relationship the same as it always was is wrong because of the potential for harm.

Maybe it's like drunk driving. There are plenty of times people drive home drunk or at least intoxicated and no one, including themselves, gets hurt. But it's still wrong to drive drunk because of the potential for harm.

 

[Badran]

What do you think of this idea:

Cheating and not having anyone find out and continuing your relationship the same as it always was is wrong because of the potential for harm.

Maybe it's like drunk driving. There are plenty of times people drive home drunk or at least intoxicated and no one, including themselves, gets hurt. But it's still wrong to drive drunk because of the potential for harm.

I agree. In the beginning this was indeed the most rational explanation, that in such a situation you never really can tell for sure that there will be no damage done. When the hypothetical was raised, about what if we were sure that there will be none, i wanted to see what is the inherent wrong with this.

That was finally explained to me in the sense that i shouldn't make that choice for them (they knowing the truth or not that is, as their life will be either based on a lie, or truth depending on whether i tell them or not).

I needed to know that expatiation, because it was rather vague in my mind, i was thinking along the lines of that people have a right to know the truth regardless, but i couldn't explain why.

But from the start, before going into the extreme (possible) situations of there being certainty of no lets say regular damage, it is indeed extremely unlikely if not impossible for us to be sure that there will be none. So it is wrong in the same sense as drunk driving, alongside the fact that even if we were sure of no damage, we also shouldn't make people's choices for them. The only exception cases is something like the example you gave, where the promise in a sense no longer applies and there is a reason that justifies you not telling the truth, such as the coma or the abusive partner.

 

[KittensAngel]

If you cheat on your spouse or partner, they never find out, and you don't contract any diseases, etc, is it wrong? Why?

Is there any case that it isn't wrong? Is there any case that it can be beneficial?

I think everyone is responsible for their own choice, born from their own character and sense of honor. If you're in a relationship with a partner that trusts you when you say you'll stay faithful, and you don't, you're a liar! Period. You're not trust worthy and you're deceiving them because you are a person incapable of keeping your word. Consequently, when later saying to that betrayed partner; "I love you." You're lying again. Because what they trust as the meaning of love isn't at all what you're talking about, when what their definition includes about love involves being able to trust their lover. So the cheat who says, "I love you" , to the betrayed partner is actually saying: I love you...who I don't believe is worthy of respect or else I'd keep my word and remain faithful to us. I love you...because I can live with lying to your face when I say I love (to lie to) you. Though you my love don't hear that middle part of the truth of it. I love you...in this age of AIDS/HIV where my dishonor can risk your life. Or destroy your health bringing home the risk of Chlamydia that has no symptoms , but when it turns chronic it then chances to make one's betrayed lover sterile, VD, herpes - both oral and/or vaginal- and every other STD on the list. I love you enough to destroy you from the inside out, because I love to betray my word to someone who trusts me because they think I'm a good and lovable person, while I know better. Yes, if you're a cheat you're a coward and a liar. If you cheat you don't actually want to be with the person you've agreed of your own free will to be faithful to. You can always find a casual relationship where the score is fair and agreed to by both parties concerned. An open relationship, no strings. However, when you freely choose to enter into a relationship and then freely decide to betray the trust upon which it's built, you're relationship is a lie because you've stepped out of your side of the agreement that makes it a commitment between two parties in trust. And you get what you give. Because it's like they say. If they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you.

 

[Magic Man]

I agree. In the beginning this was indeed the most rational explanation, that in such a situation you never really can tell for sure that there will be no damage done. When the hypothetical was raised, about what if we were sure that there will be none, i wanted to see what is the inherent wrong with this.

That was finally explained to me in the sense that i shouldn't make that choice for them (they knowing the truth or not that is, as their life will be either based on a lie, or truth depending on whether i tell them or not).

I needed to know that expatiation, because it was rather vague in my mind, i was thinking along the lines of that people have a right to know the truth regardless, but i couldn't explain why.

But from the start, before going into the extreme (possible) situations of there being certainty of no lets say regular damage, it is indeed extremely unlikely if not impossible for us to be sure that there will be none. So it is wrong in the same sense as drunk driving, alongside the fact that even if we were sure of no damage, we also shouldn't make people's choices for them. The only exception cases is something like the example you gave, where the promise in a sense no longer applies and there is a reason that justifies you not telling the truth, such as the coma or the abusive partner.

Thank you for the detailed response.

 

[Badran]

Thank you for the detailed response.

You're most welcome.

 

[Rakhel]

Adulterers only get caught because they feel guilty for what they are doing to their spouse. And they should feel guilty. They know that this other person has devoted their lives to this relationship and deserve that commitment from the person they love.

Now if you can live with yourself, knowing what you know, and have no guilt in what you do? Then sure go for it.

 

[Tenaka2]

As a corollary, if you are with someone, either married or otherwise, and you fall in love with someone else, are you cheating on the person you're in love with if you sleep with your spouse/partner?

I am in that situation and yes I feel like I'm cheating if I sleep with my partner.

 

[Magic Man]

I am in that situation and yes I feel like I'm cheating if I sleep with my partner.

If you don't mind me asking, does your partner know about the other person?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Adulterers only get caught because they feel guilty for what they are doing to their spouse. And they should feel guilty. They know that this other person has devoted their lives to this relationship and deserve that commitment from the person they love.

Now if you can live with yourself, knowing what you know, and have no guilt in what you do? Then sure go for it.

I'm sure that's true for some people, but most adulterers get caught by very subtle means. It's difficult to keep all the loose ends tied, all the time.

I've heard of cheaters getting caught because the wife finds a gift in his coat pocket and never gets it because he gave it to the mistress. Or a partner gets off work early and sees the other person going into a motel with someone or out eating .... or a close friend sees it.