X-rated Pornography in the Bible?

[roger1440]

"Porn", like beauty, is usually in the eye of the beholder.

Please explain how porn "is usally in the eye of the beholder". I don't understand what you mean by that.

 

[ChristineES]

Please explain how porn "is usally in the eye of the beholder". I don't understand what you mean by that.

I would assume that it means that the definition of "porn" would be different when described by a 40 year old and a 13 year old boy.

Some people might see kissing and looking at the beauty of the body as porn while others would see it as actual sex only. Some people see porn as evil, while others would see it as beautiful. That's my guess.

 

[Caladan]

I feel the Bible and it's various books are like anything else- children up to a certain age would have their parents to guide them. Some of the stories in the Bible are pretty graphic- not just sexual but violent. It is about men and women who, even though they followed God, were not perfect anymore than we are now.
My daughter wanted to read the Bible when she was younger, and someone provided her with a children's bible to start with.

The Bible is not a children book. Love, revenge, politics. It's all there. Although I already enjoyed studying it as a child, I definitely have more perspective now. I think to truly understand a great deal of the Bible a person needs some broad education about numerous topics, such as the Ancient Near East, the geography of the Southern Levant, and even some linguistics.
Can't say that I got true satisfaction from the Qur'an, which I've read numerous times, but never found inspiration in it. Second hand story telling of Jewish lore, and recycling the same old submit or go to hell mantra. I hope to one day be able to read it in Arabic, but so far both the Hebrew and English versions I've read left me sorely disappointed. I wanted it to match Islamic architecture or medieval Islamic progress, but it just didn't. Considering that ancient pre-Islamic Arabic poetry is considered to be one of the strong points of the Arabic culture of the time, I don't know how they got to mess the Qur'an so badly. Maybe they simply tried to override old traditions too quick and this was a result, like a low budget film.

 

[McBell]

Please explain how porn "is usally in the eye of the beholder". I don't understand what you mean by that.

It means that what is and what is not porn will change, sometimes drastically, depending upon who you are talking to.

Just like beauty.
Just like perversity.
Just like art.
Just like God.

 

[BSM1]

Please explain how porn "is usally in the eye of the beholder". I don't understand what you mean by that.

Didn't mean to cause an uproar, just meant what the poster was considering x-rated verses were probably not considered so by the author(s) of said verses. Like others have already stated most of us make our own judgements as to what is pornographic.

 

[F0uad]

Yeah. Exactly. I'm 13 and I dont want the children bible. Its boring.

Quran is 4 Adult, Child, Baby, Old, and Teens which is Muslims. And even non-muslims can read it. Because, quran is the final revelation of god. No explicit material, perfect, accurate, and TRUTH.

You know Ezkiel is also mentioned in the Children Bible right?

Anyway i want to request to stop quoting websites that "mocks" Christianity and do your own research.

 

[muizz99]

I do my own research.

 

[Pegg]

I do my own research.

try the Quran too...a lot is mentioned in there about Jesus.

◆ The angels announced good news from God to Mary. She would give birth to Jesus.—Āl ‘Imrān [3]:45.

◆ He was born of God’s spirit, without a human father.—Al-Anbiyā’ [21]:91.

◆ He was born holy (“faultless,” MMP).—Maryam [19]:19.

◆ God made of him a sign for mankind and a mercy from Him. —Maryam [19]:21.

◆ It was said of him that he was the Word of God and his Spirit.—Compare Āl ‘Imrān [3]:45; Al-Nisā’ [4]:171.

◆ God appointed him as prophet and apostle.—Al-Nisā’ [4]:171; Maryam [19]:30.

◆ God taught him the Book and Wisdom, the Torah and the Injīl.—Āl ‘Imrān [3]:48.

◆ He performed miracles from God, and was strengthened by Him with holy spirit.—Al-Baqarah [2]:87; Al-Mā’idah [5]:113.

◆ He healed the blind and the lepers, raised the dead, and foretold the unknown.—Āl ‘Imrān [3]:49.

◆ God rendered him to be in honor in this world and forever after and in the company of those nearest to God.—Āl ‘Imrān [3]:45.

◆ God caused Christ to die, raised him to life, and then lifted him up to Him.—Āl ‘Imrān [3]:55, NJD; Maryam [19]:33, NJD.


Considering it was the bible where Mohammad derived his information about Jesus, then surely the Quran has something to say about the bible too...and it does it calls it
“the Book of Enlightenment.” (Āl ‘Imrān [3]:184; Fāṭir [35]:25)

It states that these books are from God. (Al-Baqarah [2]:89; Al-An‘ām [6]:92)
Al-Mā’idah [5]:46 says about the Torah: “Therein is the (plain) command of God.”

Other verses say that the bible is “the Book of God” (Āl ‘Imrān [3]:23) and
“the Book which helps to make things clear.” (Al-Ṣāffāt [37]:117)

The Quran even tells muslims to have faith in the Torah and the Injīl. (For example, see Al-Baqarah [2]:136; Āl ‘Imrān [3]:84; Al-Nisā’ [4]:136.)
It recommends that muslims seek out those who are versed in the Torah and the Injīl, saying: “If ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message.” (Al-Naḥl [16]:43; Al-Anbiyā’ [21]:7)


The Quran was written around the 7th century bce... so we can be absolutely sure that the bible (the biblical manuscripts) were considered to be untainted by Mohammad when he wrote the Quran. He trusted what they said, he apparently had divine revelation and any muslim who denies that would be denying that Mohammad was really a prophet. So Mohammad believed the bible to be trustworthy and uncorrupted in the 7th century... and thankfully, we have manuscripts which are even older then the 7th century and they all contain the same information that our current bible contain.
So there can be no corruption of the bible as some may think.

Even Mohammad backs up the bible as the word of God and if that is the case, there is no reason for any muslim to discredit the bible....if they do, they are actually discrediting the Quran and Mohammad.

 

[Vouthon]

I think that too see the Song of Songs as "pornography" is way off the mark. It is a paean to youthful eros and the joy of passionate love between two people, at great cost and personal sacrifice let's not forget. It is firmly situated in the same context of the transnational erotic literature of the Ancient Near East as typified by Egyptian poetry of the preceding centuries.

I do not think that the couple in the Song are married. In the narrative they have to make love and kiss in secret, and the young girl's brothers and other antagonists often intervene to keep the two lovers apart. The Shulamite, the female protagonist, laments that her lover were not like a "brother to her" so that she could embrace and smooch with him in public without reproachful eyes. Clearly what we have here is a secret affair type of scenario.

Note how she affectionately calls him her "king", and later on in the text the boy chides/mocks the real King Solomon for all his concubines and wealth. The girl has her own king in the shepherd boy and he has his own wealth in the girl, with no need for thousands of concubines, gardens and riches. His girl, according to the text, has it all!

It is thus most likely a series of loosely connected narratives about two unmarried youngsters, probably in their mid-teens, living circa 900 BC in Ancient Israel who apparently long to be together in marriage but for some reason are unable to, perhaps because of the male's "low social caste" (he is described as a shepherd and she as a "nobleman's daughter"). Contrary to the marriage rites of their time, which were arranged according to class and which were largely about property rights and succession, the love between these two youngsters ascends to an almost sacramental level - it is a mutual, self-giving, committed relationship founded upon passionate love.

The poem is told largely from the woman's perspective ie during the oral sex scenes it is the woman's who speaks of tasting the man's fruit (semen) and the woman who speaks of the man blowing upon her garden (vagina). This is a revolutionary perspective.

One of the most important refrains in the Song is the Shulamite's call for others not to stir up passionate love until one is truly ready:

Let me lie among vine blossoms,
in a bed of apricots!
I am in the fever of love.

His left hand beneath my head,
his right arm
holding me close.

Daughters of Jerusalem, swear to me
by the gazelles, by the deer in the field,
that you will never awaken love
until it is ripe.

The Shulamite in the poem goes through great suffering to reach her Beloved. She is beaten by watchmen at night and has her veil torn from her. Her heart constantly worries: Where is he? When will he reveal himself? How can she find him? These thoughts are always uppermost in her mind. “Tell me whom I love, where you graze the flock, and where you rest your sheep at midday, for why should I be like a veiled woman beside the flocks of your friends” (ch1:7). Several times in Songs the beloved suffers because of this separation (3:1-3; 5:2-7), as she gets up to search for her lover.

The message of the Song is for me on a personal level this:

If a lover has the attitude, "all for you and nothing for me" then sexual love ascends to an almost divinised degree, capable of fostering not only spiritual growth but even detachment from selfish desire; in truth it also can bring a person into union with God.

"...Love consists not in feeling great things but in having great detachment [from oneself] and in suffering for the Beloved...All for you and nothing for me..."

- Saint John of the Cross (1542 – 1591), Catholic mystic

I believe that the above is in harmony with the quest for re-union with her Beloved that the Shulamite girl goes through in the Song. Despite the opposition of her brothers, the Watchmen and all the various trials, she does not allow anyone or anything to separate her from her man.

Its a great paen to the triumph of passionate love, not pornography :no:

 

[Monotheist 101]

i have heard abt " equal age big breast Virgin houris in heaven for believers " in Quran , its true ? rubbish??
or m missing smthing ?

aslaam

not only are you missing someting..you have gone to the trouble of adding to it significantly..

Quran 55.56

Therein are those of modest gaze, whom neither man nor jinni will have touched before them.

Nowhere are big breasts or long penises mentioned...what are you on about Paaji?!

 

[Monotheist 101]

Say that to an asexual like me. I almost border anti-sexualism to be very honest. I dislike all sexuality and sexual activity. Call me bizarre but I never understood the appeal but now I think of it, having the sex drive of a castrated tortoise explains a lot.
Perhaps I am missing something you people have

Have you tried swinging the other way? I dont think a human being can be completely asexual..maybe you haven't found whatever it is that tickles your fancy..yet.

 

[roger1440]

I would assume that it means that the definition of "porn" would be different when described by a 40 year old and a 13 year old boy.

Some people might see kissing and looking at the beauty of the body as porn while others would see it as actual sex only. Some people see porn as evil, while others would see it as beautiful. That's my guess.

That would imply one of several things. The "40 year old" does not know the definition or the "13 year old boy" does not know the definition or they both don't know the definition or the definition is vague. I had checked several dictionaries before I had posted to this thread. The definition of porn is not vague. Language is a form of communication. The root of the word communication is the word "common". There must be a common definition among people on the meaning of words, otherwise a word would be meaningless. If I asked you, "What is a cat?" and you had answered me, "a creature that flys, has wings, feathers and a beak" in all likelihood you had the wrong definition. There are words in the English language that are vague or have an arbitrary meaning, but the word porn is not one of them. Porn must have the intent to sexual arouse. If the intent is not there, it is not porn.

A few months ago I had written a personal ad as a goof. The entire ad from top to bottom is extremely vague. It basically says nothing. It uses many arbitrary terms and phrases. Terms like "down to earth" and "spiritual" means different things to different people.

I need a man in my life
Hello, I'm a woman looking for a man. The reason why I have placed this ad is to find a man I'm compatible with. I like to have fun and enjoy myself. I like to laugh too. You must be a gentleman and treat me like a lady. Abusive men I'm not interested in. Please be a decent man. If you are looking for sex, stay away. I like a man that knows what he wants and has goals. You must also be successful. A man with some of the same interests as me is what I'm seeking. Some of the things I like to do on weekends are to be happy with the people I'm with. I also enjoy being with my friends. Honestly, I don't like to be around people I dislike. Please be honest, sincere and good-hearted and normal. Being dishonest is a turn off for me. Perverts are never welcome. Music I enjoy also. I like a man that likes to do things. My match would also be my friend. I truly enjoy being with people I like. I'm looking forward to a great future with the right man. Being with a man I am compatible with would be great too. Are you an available man? I'm a down to earth girl that likes the simple things in life. I'm a little old fashion. I hope you don't mind that. I'm looking to spend time and do things with someone who lives near me. I prefer a man in decent shape, easygoing, down to Earth and have a good personality. I love eating good food and having a great time on a date. During the holidays I like to be with family and friends. I'm a multi-faceted person. There are many things I like to do. If you would like know more about me, just contact me. My man must have time to devote to a relationship. Please don't waste my time. Life is short. The right man entering my life would truly make me happy. I was brought up with a lot of morals and I am a lady in every aspect of the word. I consider myself spiritual but not religious. If you are looking for a traditional relationship with family values then please contact me.

 

[McBell]

Porn must have the intent to sexual arouse. If the intent is not there, it is not porn.

Interesting claim.

pornography
noun
obscene writings, drawings, photographs, or the like, especially those having little or no artistic merit.

Source


​

The above definition does not seem to agree with your claim..

 

[roger1440]

Interesting claim.

pornography
noun
obscene writings, drawings, photographs, or the like, especially those having little or no artistic merit.

Source


​

The above definition does not seem to agree with your claim..

Look at the bottom of your source.
World English Dictionary
pornography (pɔːˈnɒɡrəf&#618 — n 1. writings, pictures, films, etc, designed to stimulate sexual excitement 2. the production of such material

 

[ChristineES]

pornography (pɔːˈnɒɡrəf&#618 — n 1. writings, pictures, films, etc, designed to stimulate sexual excitement 2. the production of such material

I don't get turned at all by porn- by that definition, then it is not porn- at least to me.

 

[roger1440]

I don't get turned at all by porn- by that definition, then it is not porn- at least to me.

It would be irrelevant if you were turned on or not. What is relevant is the purpose of the material. It makes no difference if each and every viewer was turned on or not. An example would be gay porn. Most of the world is not gay. Therefor most of the world would not be turned on by gay porn. The intent of the material must be considered to determine if the material is porn or not. You have to ask yourself, what is the purpose of this material? A video of a woman giving birth is not porn. The same woman with the same vagina in a video with a dildo or penis in her vagina would be porn in most cases. The video of a woman giving birth may be considered obscene depending on where the video is viewed. An electronic store displaying TVs would not play such a video. Long story short, it’s the creator of the material that’s determines if the material is porn, not the viewer.

 

[McBell]

Look at the bottom of your source.
World English Dictionary
pornography (pɔːˈnɒɡrəf&#618 — n 1. writings, pictures, films, etc, designed to stimulate sexual excitement 2. the production of such material

Now you are merely ignoring the fact that there is at least one definition of porn that does not fit into your agenda.

In other words, you are flat out wrong when you claim "Porn must have the intent to sexual arouse. If the intent is not there, it is not porn."

 

[ChristineES]

That would imply one of several things. The "40 year old" does not know the definition or the "13 year old boy" does not know the definition or they both don't know the definition or the definition is vague. I had checked several dictionaries before I had posted to this thread. The definition of porn is not vague. Language is a form of communication. The root of the word communication is the word "common". There must be a common definition among people on the meaning of words, otherwise a word would be meaningless. If I asked you, "What is a cat?" and you had answered me, "a creature that flys, has wings, feathers and a beak" in all likelihood you had the wrong definition. There are words in the English language that are vague or have an arbitrary meaning, but the word porn is not one of them. Porn must have the intent to sexual arouse. If the intent is not there, it is not porn.

A few months ago I had written a personal ad as a goof. The entire ad from top to bottom is extremely vague. It basically says nothing. It uses many arbitrary terms and phrases. Terms like "down to earth" and "spiritual" means different things to different people.

[

I think you are reading too much into what I was getting at. Sure, there are some very worldly 13 year old children and some pretty innocent 40 year old adults.

 

[Jupimartian]

Have you tried swinging the other way? I dont think a human being can be completely asexual..maybe you haven't found whatever it is that tickles your fancy..yet.

Go on, tell someone how you know more about their own sexuality than they do.

You might want to start here.

 

[roger1440]

I think you are reading too much into what I was getting at. Sure, there are some very worldly 13 year old children and some pretty innocent 40 year old adults.

I'll play the Devil's advocate. Since the Bible has numerous accounts of pornography it must be the widest circulating pornographic material in the history of the world. It has been printed in more languages then any other book. It probably has been debated more then any other book. Excluding the local churches, I probably have more pornographic material in my home then most people do in my area. I have 5 Bibles in the conventional written format. Two of them are study Bibles. My computer has at least 20 other English translations in the PDF format. I have Patrick Henry's commentary on the Bible in the written format.My computer has three Bible software programs. One of the programs has at least 8 commentaries on the Bible, plus foot notes. I have books written by biblical scholars. I also have all the known Gospels that were not included in the Bible. The list goes on and on. Gee, I must be the biggest pervert in the area, LOL.