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Yajurveda: “This battle is the source of thy prosperity; hence we goad thee to that battle”

paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Kirran said:
Good things Poeticus isn't around any more to hear that.
I'll try again: @paarsurrey - Hindu traditions do not function in the way that Islam often does as a religion entirely centred upon one book. What's more, Hindus see no need for this.
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Did I talk about the Hindus or of the Hinduism, please? Hindus and Hinduism are not even mentioned in Veda. Are they, please?
We are talking about the Vedas and what has been mentioned in Veda, the Veda inner-evidence. Not what happened after the Veda-time, please.
Regards
 
Vinayaka

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Just because something wasn't called Hinduism doesn't mean it wasn't Hinduism. The same religion, once called Sanatana Dharma, is now called Hinduism. Many people still refer to Hinduism by Sanatana Dharma, or prefer to call it Sanatana Dharma. That does not change what it is.

Are you saying Istanbul never existed because it was once Constantinople. Same city, right? Two different names, right?
 
Kirran

Kirran

ॐ
Premium Member
paarsurrey said:
Did I talk about the Hindus or of the Hinduism, please? Hindus and Hinduism are not even mentioned in Veda. Are they, please?
We are talking about the Vedas and what has been mentioned in Veda, the Veda inner-evidence. Not what happened after the Veda-time, please.
Regards
Click to expand...

The concept of a discrete one-book religion is an Abrahamic one anyway - it wouldn't have applied in India 2000 BCE.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Jainarayan said:
Is Islam or Muslim mentioned in the Quran?
Click to expand...
Yes.
I will quote in the posts:

[3:15] Beautified for men is the love of desired things — women and children, and stored-up heaps of gold and silver, and pastured horses and cattle and crops. That is the provision of the present life; but it is Allah with Whom is an excellent home.
[3:16] Say, ‘Shall I inform you of something better than that?’ For those who fear God, there are Gardens with their Lord, beneath which rivers flow; therein shall they abide; and pure spouses and Allah’s pleasure. And Allah is Mindful of His servants,
[3:17] Those who say, ‘Our Lord, we do believe; forgive us, therefore, our sins and save us from the punishment of the Fire;’
[3:18] The steadfast, and the truthful, and the humble, and those who spend in the way of God, and those who seek forgiveness in the latter part of the night.
[3:19] Allah bears witness that there is no God but He — and also do the angels and those possessed of knowledge — Maintainer of justice; there is no God but He, the Mighty, the Wise.
003-020.png

[3:20] Surely, the true religion with Allah is Islam (complete submission). And those who were given the Book did not disagree but after knowledge had come to them, out of mutual envy. And whoso denies the Signs of Allah, then surely, Allah is quick at reckoning.
[3:21] But if they dispute with thee, say, ‘I have submitted myself to Allah, and also those who follow me.’ And say to those who have been given the Book and to the unlearned, ‘Have you submitted?’ If they submit, then they will surely be guided; but if they turn back, then thy duty is only to convey the message. And Allah is Watchful of His servants.
[3:22] Surely, those who deny the Signs of Allah and seek to kill the Prophets unjustly, and seek to kill such men as enjoin equity — announce to them a painful punishment.
[3:23] Those are they whose deeds shall come to naught in this world and in the next, and they shall have no helpers.
[3:24] Dost thou not know of those who have been given their portion of the Book? They are called to the Book of Allah that it may judge between them, but a party of them turn away in aversion.
[3:25] That is because they say, ‘The Fire shall not touch us, except for a limited number of days.’ And what they used to forge has deceived them regarding their religion.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=3&verse=21
The verse [3:20] clearly mentions Islam as a religion. The original Arabic Text is also given. The verses in the context have also been given for clear understanding of the verse.

Regards
 
Kirran

Kirran

ॐ
Premium Member
Well, now we're off. Shall we leave him to it?

Anyway, it doesn't clearly mention Islam as a religion at all, in the sense the term is understood today. It does not refer to Islam as the system of doctrines and practices which it now often is, and I suspect the word translated as religion in 3:20 is deen, which is more in the nature of 'way'. So this verse seems to me to be saying that the true path which one should follow if you want to live a godly life is that of complete surrender/submission to God.
 
Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Islam is slavery and that is what Mohammad wanted. Slaves to his design. Dissent was unthinkable. They do not know what freedom is.
“Say, ‘Obey Allah and the messenger’. Then if they turn away, Allah does not love the disbelievers.” (Al-Quran 3:32)
It was a crime to disobey the Messenger. It was equivalent to disobeying Allah. And the penalty was death.
Jainarayan said:
Newsflash... they're all dead. Only Hindus are left.
Click to expand...
Yeah, people die, but we, their progeny, safeguard their ways. We are very much alive. :)
 
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paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Aupmanyav said:
Islam is slavery and that is what Mohammad wanted. Slaves to his design. Dissent was unthinkable. They do not know what freedom is.
“Say, ‘Obey Allah and the messenger’. Then if they turn away, Allah does not love the disbelievers.” (Al-Quran 3:32)
It was a crime to disobey the Messenger. It was equivalent to disobeying Allah. And the penalty was death.
Click to expand...

I quote the verse with the verses in the context:

[3:27] Say, ‘O Allah, Lord of sovereignty, Thou givest sovereignty to whomsoever Thou pleasest; and Thou takest away sovereignty from whomsoever Thou pleasest. Thou exaltest whomsoever Thou pleasest and Thou abasest whomsoever Thou pleasest. In Thy hand is all good. Thou surely hast power to do all things.
[3:28] ‘Thou makest the night pass into the day and makest the day pass into the night. And Thou bringest forth the living from the dead and bringest forth the dead from the living. And Thou givest to whomsoever Thou pleasest without measure.’
[3:29] Let not the believers take disbelievers for friends in preference to believers — and whoever does that has no connection with Allah — except that you cautiously guard against them. And Allah cautions you against His punishment; and to Allah is the returning.
[3:30] Say, ‘Whether you conceal what is in your breasts or reveal it, Allah knows it; and He knows whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. And Allah has power to do all things.’
[3:31] Beware of the Day when every soul shall find itself confronted with all the good it has done and all the evil it has done. It will wish there were a great distance between it and that evil. And Allah cautions you against His punishment. And Allah is Most Compassionate to His servants.
[3:32] Say, ‘If you love Allah, follow me: then will Allah love you and forgive you your faults. And Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.’
[3:33] Say, ‘Obey Allah and the Messenger;’ but if they turn away, then remember that Allah loves not the disbelievers.
[3:34] Allah did choose Adam and Noah and the family of Abraham and the family of ‘Imran above all peoples —
[3:35] A race, co-related with one another. And Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.
[3:36] Remember when the woman of ‘Imran said, ‘My Lord, I have vowed to Thee what is in my womb to be dedicated to Thy service. So do accept it of me; verily, Thou alone art All-Hearing, All-Knowing.’
[3:37] But when she was delivered of it, she said, ‘My Lord, I am delivered of a female’ — and Allah knew best what she had brought forth and the male she was thinking of was not like the female she had brought forth — ‘and I have named her Mary, and I commit her and her offspring to Thy protection from Satan, the rejected.’
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=3&verse=31

There is no mention of any slavery in the verses.

Regards
 
Satyamavejayanti

Satyamavejayanti

Well-Known Member
"paarsurrey"
Click to expand...

Namaste,

[3:32] Say, ‘If you love Allah, follow me: then will Allah love you and forgive you your faults. And Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.’
[3:33] Say, ‘Obey Allah and the Messenger;’ but if they turn away, then remember that Allah loves not the disbelievers.
[3:34] Allah did choose Adam and Noah and the family of Abraham and the family of ‘Imran above all peoples —
Click to expand...

So Aupmanyav is correct, because as he said "It was a crime to disobey the Messenger. It was equivalent to disobeying Allah. And the penalty was death". the the verse you provide 3.32, 33 actually confirms at least that disbelief and disobedience to Muhammad that it is equivalent to disbelief in Allah.

This is slavery to Muhammad as the essence of Aup's post suggest.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Jainarayan said:
Is Islam or Muslim mentioned in the Quran?
Click to expand...

Yes.
I will quote in the posts:

[6:159] Do they expect aught but that angels should come to them or that thy Lord should come or that some of the Signs of thy Lord should come? The day when some of the Signs of thy Lord shall come, to believe in them shall not profit a soul which believed not before, nor earned any good by its faith. Say, ‘Wait ye, we too are waiting.’
[6:160] As for those who split up their religion and became divided into sects, thou hast no concern at all with them. Surely their case will come before Allah, then will He inform them of what they used to do.
[6:161] Whoso does a good deed shall have ten times as much; but he who does an evil deed, shall have only a like reward; and they shall not be wronged.
[6:162] Say, ‘As for me, my Lord has guided me unto a straight path — a right religion, the religion of Abraham, the upright. And he was not of those who join gods with God.’
[6:163] Say, ‘My Prayer and my sacrifice and my life and my death are all for Allah, the Lord of the worlds
006-164.png

Transliteration: qul inna ṣalātī wanusukī wamaḥyāya wamamātī lillahi rabbi l-ʿālamīna lā sharīka lahu wabidhālika umir'tu wa-anā awwalu l-mus'limīna

[6:164] ‘He has no partner. And so am I commanded, and I am the first of those who submit.’
[6:165] Say, ‘Shall I seek a lord other than Allah, while He is the Lord of all things?’ And no soul acts but only against itself; nor does any bearer of burden bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord will be your return, and He will inform you of that wherein you used to differ.
[6:166] And He it is Who has made you successors of others on the earth and has exalted some of you over the others in degrees of rank, that He may try you by that which He has given you. Surely, thy Lord is quick in punishment; and surely He is Most Forgiving, Merciful.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse:&ch=6&verse=159
The verse [6:164] clearly mentions Muslims in plural, singular Muslim meaning "those who submit." . The original Arabic Text is also given, the transliteration is also given. The verses in the context have also been given for clear understanding of the verse. Please

Regards
 
Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
That does not change the picture. It is still slavery to Allah and practically slavery to his messenger since there is no proof of whether there is a God, whether a so-called angel Jibreel ever appreared or that he communicated a message to Mohammad. It is all just a belief not based on any fact.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Aupmanyav said:
That does not change the picture. It is still slavery to Allah and practically slavery to his messenger since there is no proof of whether there is a God, whether a so-called angel Jibreel ever appreared or that he communicated a message to Mohammad. It is all just a belief not based on any fact.
Click to expand...

What one understands from slavery and or slave? Please give one's own understanding not from a lexicon/dictionary.
How one becomes a slave? Please
Regards
 
Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
It may not have been hot, but perhaps it was livable and mammoths roamed there. You see humans can live in very difficult conditions, the Namibians, the people in Atacama, Sahara, Gobi, Thar in India, Tibet, New Guinea, rain forests of Brazil, Iceland, Kamchatka, Siberia, Eskimos, etc.
 
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