Yemeni child bride dies after internal bleeding on marriage night

[FearGod]

Maybe Emma didnt

But what about the rest

People have the right to chose the way they want to live

No one have right to talk on their behalf

Or what do you think


I want to clarify one thing

Marrying women 15 is not obligatory in islam

It is people choice

If women said she don't want to marry
No one can force her
If it happened there marriage will not be accepted according to islam


I wish every thing become clear


Prophet mohammad peace be upon him
Did not enter the room of her wife ayesha
Untill she become adult

The second thing is that ayesha radi allah anha
Loved prophet

And she was jealous when prophet talk about
His dead wife khadijah

Her love was extraordinary

Instead of critising you have to watch movie called jansi ki rani

King who marry child and how she love her husband
In away she can't imagine her life without him

i am just wondering that your nickname is a jew while speaking as a muslim.

 

[Levite]

Dont agree.

When their prophet is 53 and viewed as being with a child, it makes it OK and justified, as noted by this thread at how many are standing up for the practice.

Its not like were talking about a isolated view. To them it is perfectly acceptable and justified through their religious beliefs with their hero setting the moral standards .

Again, I have to express my skepticism about this. None of the Muslims that I have met in person, or have had relatively cordial dialogue with, strike me as people who would decide that, because Muhammad may have married a girl that young, that meant it was a blanket prescription for pedophilic marriages.

Now, I am certainly no expert in Islamic thought, but I would imagine that this is a point on which there might well be varying schools of thought and differing interpretations. I hardly imagine it is fundamental to Islam that one must accept child marriage.

I want to clarify one thing
Marrying women 15 is not obligatory in islam
It is people choice

First of all, there is, again, a great difference between marrying a 15 year old-- something which is questionable indeed, but could at least potentially be justified in certain circumstances-- and marrying an 8,9, or 10 year old-- something which is absolutely unjustifiable in any circumstances.

In the case of a 15 or 16 year old, I may disapprove, but I am also inclined to make some allowance for differences of culture and attitude. However, in the case of a 9 or 10 year old, there is simply no difference of culture and attitude that I could possibly imagine that would make that anything but child abuse.

If women said she don't want to marry
No one can force her
If it happened there marriage will not be accepted according to islam

I understand that that is supposed to be the letter of the law in Islam. However, to use an example, one of my friends spent a couple of years working for Amnesty International, and related how their offices or representatives in more rural or impoverished areas, like Yemen, Bangladesh, parts of Pakistan and Afghanistan, India, etc., often are contacted by women who were forced into marriages as children or young girls, under pressure from their families, and endured years of unwanted sexual relations and pregnancies as well as various forms of physical or psychological abuse, from which they now wish help escaping.

Whatever the ideal of Islamic law may state, it is quite clear that that is not what is going on. If it is indeed against Islamic law, then there appear to be many Muslims who are violating Islamic law under the cover of following it.

Prophet mohammad peace be upon him
Did not enter the room of her wife ayesha
Untill she become adult

If that is true, it is to Muhammad's credit, and it should have been made clearer in Islamic traditions, since apparently some Muslims are either unaware of it or choose to disbelieve it.

And especially if it is true, it means there is even less justification for anyone to marry a little child, much less to rape her.

 

[outhouse]

I hardly imagine it is fundamental to Islam that one must accept child marriage.

Here in the USA many have taken our view and our laws over religious dogma. My family would not condone such behaviour.

In other countries though it would be very fundemental. Again one only has to read this thread and see how many are defending the practice to notice they believe heart and soul, it is aceptable behaviour they find justifiable.

 

[Koldo]

If that is true, it is to Muhammad's credit, and it should have been made clearer in Islamic traditions, since apparently some Muslims are either unaware of it or choose to disbelieve it.

And especially if it is true, it means there is even less justification for anyone to marry a little child, much less to rape her.

I might be wrong, but the last time i read, one is considered an adult on islam once the person hits puberty. In other words, to say Aisha was an adult ( in this case ) doesn't mean much.

 

[Levite]

Here in the USA many have taken our view and our laws over religious dogma. My family would not condone such behaviour.

In other countries though it would be very fundemental. Again one only has to read this thread and see how many are defending the practice to notice they believe heart and soul, it is aceptable behaviour they find justifiable.

However there have also been Muslim posters who have rejected the practice, and I imagine there are many more out there like them.

I have seen (largely on other sites) some hair-raising and heinous things posted by fundamentalist ultra-Orthodox Jews. I would hate to think that there are people out there reading that stuff and presuming that they speak for the majority of Jews and the basics of the Jewish tradition. I can only imagine that many Muslims out there feel similarly when they see other Muslims making posts like many in this thread.

 

[Satnaam]

Ofcourse this will happen as Muslims copy Muhammads life as a part of Sunnah. If the prophet can have marry children and copulate with them then ofcourse his followers will try the same too. Aysha was still playing with dolls when Muhammad married her. Even if girls are already pubertal, it does not justify marrying them off to older men. What about being mentally mature and ready for a married/sexual life? The truth is that Muhammad was a morally corrupt, lustful man.

 

[Assad91]

Here in the USA many have taken our view and our laws over religious dogma. My family would not condone such behaviour.

In other countries though it would be very fundemental. Again one only has to read this thread and see how many are defending the practice to notice they believe heart and soul, it is aceptable behaviour they find justifiable.

Please tell how many Muslim posters here defended child marriage

 

[Aquitaine]

Because a man said Mohammad did it? I could say Mohammed did anything, but does that mean it is a part of Islam? And I would not personally call those people Muslims, nor would I call the people that promote Jihad Muslims, nor any other person that claims any type of violence against another person as justified, as the Quran specifically forbids violence against others.

This is what I find incredible about arguements over scripture: you could say the same for any religious scripture including the Koran (that it was just written by men and should be disregarded). How people can be skeptical enough to claim certain Hadiths are fake, but yet believe the Koran is from a God I will never know.

Secondly, don't you think saying these people "aren't real Muslims" is a bit like the "No true Scotsman" fallacy? Who're you (or anyone else for that matter) to say that they aren't "real" Muslims?

Thirdly, you keep telling me how the Koran forbid violence (which may be true) but then you also have to realize that there are plenty of Muslims justifying their violence on their religious beliefs and convictions. You may as well feed me the "Islam is a religion of Peace" line.

*For the record, no religion is a "religion of Peace", I'm not just aiming at Islam there, just sayin'.

Religion is definitely an influence, I never argued that, what I am arguing that religion is not responsible.

I am arguing that Religion can be just as much of an influence as poverty, poor standards of living, culture etc. It may not be the primary contributor - but it certainly can be at least partially responsible.

 

[Aquitaine]

You are underestimating the relevancy of Muhammad on Islam.

Indeed. This is a character who cannot even have cartoon depictions of himself, without thousands of people across the globe going ape, and people ending up dead.
Whether what was written about him was done so by man (which let's face it, is almost-certainly true) or if it was written via divine inspiration is somewhat irrelevant.

 

[dgirl1986]

STuff like this breaks my heart

 

[Aquitaine]

STuff like this breaks my heart

Indeed, it's another wonderful reminder of the bizarre nature of some of our fellow Humans.

 

[dgirl1986]

Indeed, it's another wonderful reminder of the bizarre nature of some of our fellow Humans.

Bizarre and tragic.

 

[Assad91]

Indeed. This is a character who cannot even have cartoon depictions of himself, without thousands of people across the globe going ape, and people ending up dead.
Whether what was written about him was done so by man (which let's face it, is almost-certainly true) or if it was written via divine inspiration is somewhat irrelevant.

There are Muslims who believe hadith on the Prophet (sawa)was writtenfrom divine inspiration?

Ill be, you learn something new everyday

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Your need to equivocate rather than address the underlying issue is telling.

 

[outhouse]

Please tell how many Muslim posters here defended child marriage

Are you making excuses for this behaviour?

You can go back through the thread and see yourself. One admits taking a child bride. Others making excuses.

 

[Assad91]

Are you making excuses for this behaviour?

You can go back through the thread and see yourself. One admits taking a child bride. Others making excuses.

If you're accusing me, then show evidence.

I know about one.

You made the claim, so tell me who and how many defended it

 

[ohhcuppycakee]

Ofcourse this will happen as Muslims copy Muhammads life as a part of Sunnah. If the prophet can have marry children and copulate with them then ofcourse his followers will try the same too. Aysha was still playing with dolls when Muhammad married her. Even if girls are already pubertal, it does not justify marrying them off to older men. What about being mentally mature and ready for a married/sexual life? The truth is that Muhammad was a morally corrupt, lustful man.

I think I have said this once before in this topic but, sources differ on the exact age of Aisha. If you compare Asma bint Abu Bakr's age (according to ahadith) at the time of Aisha's marriage, it would put her at 17 or 18 years old. The fact is we really don't know how old she was. Ahadith is a source that is often contradictory. It's not an exact history. Arabs back then didn't really keep track of their age as we do today. It just wasn't their practice. Even some people today around the world are not sure of their age.

I'm going to keep reiterating this...

 

[Aquitaine]

There are Muslims who believe hadith on the Prophet (sawa)was writtenfrom divine inspiration?

Ill be, you learn something new everyday

Ugh, fine - be that way.

There are Muslims who view Mohammad as the most perfect of Humans, and thus base (or aspire to base) their own lifestyles and actions off of him. They can gain "insight" into Mohammad's life based off the Hadiths, which (regardless of whether they're considered completely accurate or fabricated) document his apparent lifestyle.

Ergo, some Muslims reject the hadiths as fabricated, whilst others don't and also base their own lifestyle on the "documented" actions of Mohammad.

Anyways, again I am going too far away from the original subject of this thread. Ultimately what I am saying here (and in all my other posts in this thread) is that religion does have a part to play in tragedies like this.

After all, when a Suicide bomber detonates himself and screams "Allah Ackbar" - it's totally got nothing to do with religious extremism, right? :sarcastic

 

[Aquitaine]

I think I have said this once before in this topic but, sources differ on the exact age of Aisha. If you compare Asma bint Abu Bakr's age (according to ahadith) at the time of Aisha's marriage, it would put her at 17 or 18 years old. The fact is we really don't know how old she was. Ahadith is a source that is often contradictory. It's not an exact history. Arabs back then didn't really keep track of their age as we do today. It just wasn't their practice. Even some people today around the world are not sure of their age.

I'm going to keep reiterating this...

But another Muslim poster in this thread told me that the minimum age for marriage in Islam is 9 - because they interpret Aisha as being around that age when she married Mo'.

Whether she was 6, 9, 16, 19, 24 or 77 it doesn't matter - a significant portion believe it was 6-9 based off their interpretations of literature, and thus some will "cement" such a thing into their own practices.

This is why I find scripture meaningless, because it is based entirely on human interpretation, so the notion that it is the "word of God" is laughable at best.

 

[Alceste]

Please tell how many Muslim posters here defended child marriage

One argued that "marrying" *edited* ten year olds is perfectly healthy and normal, that HE "married" *edited* a ten year old child at the age of twenty and there was nothing wrong with it, and he was planning to have his own daughters sold to grown men *edited* at a similar age. Words absolutely fail me. I simply can not express the depth of my horror and disgust.

Then a few of the Muslims here deflected criticism. This is often mistaken for defending something. That's when people address criticism of Islam by saying something totally silly and irrelevant, along the lines of "well, in AMERICA, women go around showing their LEGS to everybody". I mean, come on.

Now, I understand that deflection of criticism is not the same as defending the practice. I take it to mean you really do understand that the practice is utterly morally reprehensible, but are embarrassed or uncomfortable talking about it - particularly in an adversarial forum, to self-righteous Westerners who are (let's face it) MILES ahead of the Muslim world in terms of women's rights and freedoms, if not in other ways.

Anyway, I get it, but you can't expect EVERYBODY to get it. Many people see "deflection of criticism" and take it to be "support of the practice being criticized". Maybe you notice it when you talk to some Americans about the enormous civilian death toll of their military operations in the ME - they just change the subject. That doesn't mean they're in favour of killing civilians, it just means they're uncomfortable facing criticism of the actions of their army and government.