Yemeni child bride dies after internal bleeding on marriage night

[nash8]

i am sure there are many, but i was just responding to you, your post is quoted below
"I can say that I am a Christian and that slaying my enemies is religious for me according to the Bible."

The point I was making was do you judge people by they're actions, or by what they say is right? Is slaying my enemies a Christian thing to do?

Muslims are comparitively rich compared to other people, most of them work in middle-east and does huge bank-deposits
Malappuram - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lol, if you think Muslims are rich compared to other people you are sadly mistaken. First of all, the cite you listed says nothing about Muslim wealth, and second of all it is about a city in India.

Look at the GDP per capita of the Middle East.
Economy of the Middle East - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can knock off the first 7 because they are either non-Muslim in the case of Israel, or the GDP is extremely skewed because of small populations, and a few extremely wealthy Muslims who claim residence in these countries that skew the average way up. And Turkey is considered a very stable and modernized country.

Look at countries 9 -17 where most of the conflict in the Middle East happens, and compare their GDP compared to the United states.

you are wrong, its not my opinion, it is muslims opinion, i just quoted them here.

It's Muslim's opinion lol. Then why do many Muslims reject it?

stop pretending to be a scholar, are you a muslim? who are you to decide that? its upto the muslims to decide which all scriptures to be trusted.

I am a Muslim, and who are you to decide what is Islamic and what is not? And Hadith is not scripture, nor has it ever been.

again, why not hadiths?
btw, stop putting words into my my mouth, when did i ever say the term 'pedophilia'?

I have quoted a verse in the Quran that says that if you follow anything that is not revealed from Allah, which only the Quran was revealed by Allah, than you are a disbeliever and/or not a Muslim.

same B.S again, you are not a muslim, you have no authority to decide what scriptures muslims should rely on.

I am a Muslim, and you have no authority to decide what scriptures Muslim should rely on either. And yet again, Hadith is not a scripture.

Child marriage is not what a 'few' (muslim) individuals do but what their role model, Muhammad did. He set the example by marrying a girl who was yet playing with dolls. Nash8, you should read up on that.

LOL, you should read up on that. How bout you quote me a verse in the Quran that supports your argument. And for that matter it was legal to marry a girl playing with dolls in America 100 years ago, does that mean that all American's support child marriage?

 

[nash8]

Let me make sure you understand what I claimed first. I meant the marrying a child part not any of the rest. Before we get to the Quran it is a very widely held belief Muhammad married a child even among Muslims. As a Christian I do not find instructions about which book is the true book binding on me. I am only interested in which books are the most reliable (history wise). I will get to which books are if I have time but wanted to respond quickly to this.

Lol, so what your saying is that Bible is not the "true" book binding on you?

I do not believe either book was revealed by Allah so internal rules do not apply to non-Muslim scholarship.

Well Muslims don't believe Hadith was revealed by Allah so you have something in common.

Something mentioned in a book that contains simple history is not necessarily justified by it's author. The Bible records theft, murder, and thousands of things God is not in favor of. I do not know what this was supposed to prove and oh "I know you are but what am I" is a poor defense anyway.

What I am arguing is, that a prophet within the Bible instructs people to take female child virgins as their own, and also to kill little boys as well. Just because a Prophet of a religion did something, does that inherently make it a part of the religion.

And for that matter, there is no reference in the Quran to killing little boys, or taking little girls as your own, so I think the Quran has one up on you there buddy.

Come off it man. Acting hostile and trivial is of no help to Islam. I have never met a Muslim and I know plenty that denied this, they defended Muhammad's right to do it fervently. Had lunch today with a PLO from Jordan as a matter of fact.

Lol, I am a Muslim and and I defend that Muhammad never did it in the first place. Yeah the PLO is a great representation of Islamic beliefs as a whole.

Your wrong and petty as well. I sure hope this gets better further on.

LOL, your wrong and petty as well.

I supplied two official statements from the PLO how many more do you need?

So the PLO is representitave of the faith of Islam. My bad, I didn't know that was the ruling authority.

Yes, adding the equivalent of the population of Nevada every year to Christianity is a sure sign we are in trouble

Since the the number of your religious adherents means that people not of that religion don't view you in a negative light or anything.

we are still the most popular religion in human history.

Lol, I forgot the spiritual progression of human's was based on being "popular".

If you wish to stick to the issues fine but I just can justify responding to stuff like this any further.

I was going to stick to the issues, but the idea of you not responding in this thread anymore is way to enticing to pass up.

 

[nash8]

You can stick up for them and make all the excuses in the world that sound great.

But what happened to the child in the OP is due to a sick barbaric people following primitive cultural and religious practices that are sick and perverted.

Yet again, can you please cite where child marriage is a religious practice?

How many little girls have to die Rick before you quit making excuses?

Obviously 1 little innocent girl wasn't enough for you, how many before you turn back to civilized laws and actions? Does 10 little innocent girls death change your view, or is it a 100 that will do it?

Ever since I have been here, I have placed you in very high esteem despite your devoted religious belief. But your loosing me here.

Cmon Outhouse, Rick is not defending the this act, he is defending the idea that it not based on religion. People are using religion to justify their henious acts, not the other way around.

And if your so concerned why don't you get off your *** and do something about it yourself.

Some muslims are the boogy man. We are at war with the muslim boogy men.

9/11 how many died to muslim boogy men?

Lol seriously, we at war with a non-existent enemy. We are at war so we could establish a permanent military base in the Middle East. We are at war with political leaders, who claim religious affiliation where none exists, who use the impoverished people of their respective nations to commit heinous acts under the guise of religious backing.

You do realize that the more responsibility you place on religion for these acts, you are taking that much responsiblity off the people that commited them?

Because these third world countries love war. violence and perversion of their women and children.

What's the key words in this statment, third world countries, not "Muslim countries". And do you think that no other countries have directly contributed to the reason why these countries are still considered "third world"

Does not mean we let them keep being barbaric and uncivilized.

Totally agreed.

People have to fight to stop this Rick. Sweeping it under the rug and saying muslims are innocent lets talk about something else doesn't cut it.

Saying people who claim to be Muslims are innocent no, definitely not. But blaming a religion for the actions of men, cmon man, you're better than that. Your totally taking the responsiblity off the people and blaming the religion, no matter what percentage of blame goes to each.

I don't see Muslims selling their daughters or marrying young in first world countries do you?

Exactly.

What I am saying is 1400 years ago our own families might have married young.

Exactly.

How many times do I have to say I think child marriage is wrong?

Everyone agrees what happened to that little girl was terrible.

Exactly

The logic I take issue with is attacking religion like it is the problem, if that were true we would see this in every Muslim country right?

Exactly

There is something here about the religion that is at fault. Make no mistake about it.

The fact that you call it "something" is evidence enough that you have no idea what it is about the religion that is at fault.

NO one here is saying all muslims are guilty or bad. No one is saying all of the religion is faulty.

When you say Muslims, you include all people that identify themselves as Muslims. When you say Islam you include everyone that follows that faith. If you wan't to designate it to a specific group of "Muslims" within specific guidelines, please feel free to do so.

But dangit, if a religion is so self righteous that it cannot correct itself, it should be scrapped. Make no mistake about what I state here. If a religion cannot grow and evolve forward, it should be scrapped.

Replace the word religion with the word people, and I totally agree with you.

 

[nash8]

my friend, people have been doing terrible things by twisting religion into something it should not be for all time.

If a person mows down 10 people with a car, we should not get rid of cars.

What you are seeing here is a violent child molestor, not a religious man.

exactly!!!!!!

 

[payak]

Just curious,how old was Elvis Presley's wife when they met, 14 I think, I could be wrong,yet he is revered in the west.

This thread should have only a few posts, yes the man was sick,pity the poor girl,then onto the next thread,how on earth is it still going.

 

[nash8]

Just curious,how old was Elvis Presley's wife when they met, 14 I think, I could be wrong,yet he is revered in the west.

This thread should have only a few posts, yes the man was sick,pity the poor girl,then onto the next thread,how on earth is it still going.

This thread has been going on so long because people wan't to hold a religion responsible for the actions of men, rather then the men that committed hose actions.

There has only been one person in this thread that has said this man was not sick, and I would argue that he was sick himself.

 

[Assad91]

Just curious,how old was Elvis Presley's wife when they met, 14 I think, I could be wrong,yet he is revered in the west.

This thread should have only a few posts, yes the man was sick,pity the poor girl,then onto the next thread,how on earth is it still going.

Its starting to look like the "Was Muhammad (*sawa*) where its the same argument and Muslims having to refute it over and over again.

And every few pages there is the " Well no Muslim denies Aisha and Muhammad (sawa) marriage"

 

[payak]

a few years ago a monk had sex with a dog, bad monk, not a bad religion.

If every monk turned evil I would continue to embrace my religion and pray at home where I have an altar already.

I know many beautiful moral Muslims,and have met same bad ones,followed correctly in my oppinion Islam is a good path to take for an individual like any path if you stay on track.

 

[FearGod]

Hate-mongers are taking an advantage of the tragical incident of the claimed death of one child in Yemen to bash Islam as the main cause of it and to manifest their psychiatric illness of islamophobia.

Islam as a religion was the turning point from ignorance to the modern and civilized world of today,no one can deny the effect of the Islamic civilization on Europe and how Muslims helped Europe to have their own way out from their dark ages.

Even this known fact about the role of Islam to the modern world civilization is denied by those hate-mongers.

[youtube]3Zc9D-fKGSs[/youtube]
The Golden Age of Islam under Khilafah braught the modern world - YouTube

 

[1robin]

Lol, so what your saying is that Bible is not the "true" book binding on you?

These pop culture acronyms and emoticons seem to take the place of arguments that could not be made. That one sentence above has several errors in it. Yet you think making a abhorrently incorrect statement is grounds for laughing at what I said. Bizarre. Anyway let's see what is wrong here.

1. I never mentioned the Bible. It is truly strange how many things said about Muhammad or the Quran are responded to by falsely equating something in the Bible with it. It would not help Islam even if you could hurt the Bible which you did not even attempt BTW.
2. Of course the Bible is my highest authority but I never insist it should be for those that challenge it. A Hindu may use anything he wishes as long as it is historically reliable. As usual Islam screws its self here by claiming to believe the Bible and even that it is to be used to judge the Quran but I did not insist you do so and many of you violate your own rules and use the pathetic Gospel of Thomas and many other unreliable things to challenge the Bible you claim to believe in.
3. You can't tell a Christian he must use the Quran unless you can show it is the most reliable document there is.
4. Your are basically saying I must use what Muslims like the most regardless of what is the most reliable. Muhammad may believe the Bible was true but we do not believe the Quran is. I am not bound by what you think is the most reliable but by what actually is.
5. There is more but this is enough.

How you can LOL and do that is beyond me.

Well Muslims don't believe Hadith was revealed by Allah so you have something in common.

I do not believe your Allah exists or has revealed anything so only what is the most historically reliable is relevant to me. And much in the Quran is not reliable. For instance in every conflict with the Bible the Quran id not in even a single category the Bible's equal. The Bible says Christ died on the cross. The Quran says that is not true. Yet the Bible is the earliest by far, the most historically reliable by far, the most exhaustive in explanation, and the only one that contains eyewitnesses to Christ. The Quran is one very suspicious man's word. The Bible is over 40 men's claims and includes many other witnesses plus over 40 extra biblical authors. In any contest the Bible has every advantage.

What I am arguing is, that a prophet within the Bible instructs people to take female child virgins as their own, and also to kill little boys as well. Just because a Prophet of a religion did something, does that inherently make it a part of the religion.

Why are you saying this? Instead of debating whether it's true, tell me why if you deny Muhammad married a child you thought this was relevant. BTW we do not claim our prophets were sinless (Christ never taught this), again Islam shoots its self in the foot by claiming Muhammad who was anything but sinless was in fact sinless.

And for that matter, there is no reference in the Quran to killing little boys, or taking little girls as your own, so I think the Quran has one up on you there buddy.

No it has Muhammad chopping heads off until he is exhausted, killing a bunch of others and then re-animating them so he can taunt them again before they are killed again, his and his companions accounts of his revelation behavior is an exact Biblical description of demonic possession which is exactly what he thought it was at first, claiming Stan's words were God's, being cursed by a shaman, and telling Muslims to do one thing then doing another. Every primary act Muslims should do was done by pagans long before Muhammad (Circle the Kaba, kiss the stone, pray so many times a day, etc..). He borrowed wholesale from heretical texts like the apocalypse of Peter, infancy Gospels, protovelum of James, Gospel of Mary, etc.. The big difference here being that our prophets were sinful and claimed to be sinful, your single prophet was exceedingly sinful yet Muslims claim him to be sinless. The bible records many things even prophets did that Christ nor the father desired.

Lol, I am a Muslim and and I defend that Muhammad never did it in the first place. Yeah the PLO is a great representation of Islamic beliefs as a whole.

I never mentioned anything the PLO said about Muhammad. What are you talking about?

LOL, your wrong and petty as well.

Good one. Not even capable of originality at this point huh?

So the PLO is representitave of the faith of Islam. My bad, I didn't know that was the ruling authority.

No, which is why I never claimed it is. What are you talking about? I know or have spoke to hundreds of Muslims and only one was PLO. Are you ok?

Since the the number of your religious adherents means that people not of that religion don't view you in a negative light or anything.

Why do you think a religion that has been persecuted by the Earth's greatest empires would care about the opinions of those same groups that persecuted Christianity? I do not even think you would claim Islam has a better reputation among the world in general than Christianity so again what are you doing? Islam is among the most common threats to countless nations security and radical Islam among even Islamic nations greatest threats according to polling. Yet you are throwing stones. Amazing.

Lol, I forgot the spiritual progression of human's was based on being "popular".

You mentioned how silly someone looked and then are claiming that others perceptions are irrelevant. Make up your mind Islam will not succeed in either standard.

I was going to stick to the issues, but the idea of you not responding in this thread anymore is way to enticing to pass up.

I am sure it is because Islam tactic 101 is make all those who do not agree go away.

Qur'an (8:39) - “And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.” Translation from the Noble Quran

Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Islam and Forced Conversion

Cry bias until you are sick but that site did not produce those surah.

 

[1robin]

Hate-mongers are taking an advantage of the tragical incident of the claimed death of one child in Yemen to bash Islam as the main cause of it and to manifest their psychiatric illness of islamophobia.

Islam as a religion was the turning point from ignorance to the modern and civilized world of today,no one can deny the effect of the Islamic civilization on Europe and how Muslims helped Europe to have their own way out from their dark ages.

Even this known fact about the role of Islam to the modern world civilization is denied by those hate-mongers.

[youtube]3Zc9D-fKGSs[/youtube]
The Golden Age of Islam under Khilafah braught the modern world - YouTube

This woe is me victim hood stuff backfires when repeated every five minutes. Let me ask you to explain something.

The first dozen peaceful years of Islam, Muhammad had less than 250 adherents (mostly family). Apparently peace sells but no one was buying. Then some tribal lords employed Muhammad to arbitrate peace and stability among the tribes from the area and armed him to accomplish this. They got anything but what they wished. The next dozen years are endless retribution, revenge, loot, raids, and killing. During those dozen years when Muhammad had power and money to offer he gained 100,000 followers. The early history of Christianity is exactly the opposite. Christianity was adopted widely and prolifically even though it was ruthlessly persecuted without anything except the message to offer. Islam did not grow when it offered only the message and was resisted, but exploded only when it became the persecutors of others and had wealth and power to offer. Please be honest and explain this rationally if you will.


I am going to post a summary of all the Aisha stuff I have found including how prevalent the belief he married a child is in Islam soon, there is a lot and it is taking a bit.

 

[FearGod]

This woe is me victim hood stuff backfires when repeated every five minutes. Let me ask you to explain something.

The first dozen peaceful years of Islam, Muhammad had less than 250 adherents (mostly family). Apparently peace sells but no one was buying. Then some tribal lords employed Muhammad to arbitrate peace and stability among the tribes from the area and armed him to accomplish this. They got anything but what they wished. The next dozen years are endless retribution, revenge, loot, raids, and killing. During those dozen years when Muhammad had power and money to offer he gained 100,000 followers. The early history of Christianity is exactly the opposite. Christianity was adopted widely and prolifically even though it was ruthlessly persecuted without anything except the message to offer. Islam did not grow when it offered only the message and was resisted, but exploded only when it became the persecutors of others and had wealth and power to offer. Please be honest and explain this rationally if you will.


I am going to post a summary of all the Aisha stuff I have found including how prevalent the belief he married a child is in Islam soon, there is a lot and it is taking a bit.

That is irrelevant to what i had posted which was about hate-mongers and islamophobia from one side and the effect of Islamic civilization into Europe during the dark ages from other side.

 

[Father Heathen]

Islamophobia is such a ridiculous term.

I'm going to start using "logicophobia" and "decencyophobia"...

 

[FearGod]

Islamophobia is such a ridiculous term.

I'm going to start using "logicophobia" and "decencyophobia"...

Yes i agree,replace Islam with Logic,because Islam is Logic.:yes:

 

[outhouse]

Yes i agree,replace Islam with Logic,because Islam is Logic.:yes:

Is terrorism logical?

 

[Father Heathen]

Yes i agree,replace Islam with Logic,because Islam is Logic.:yes:

Yes, nothing is more logical than homophobia, misogyny, arbitrary laws with disproportionate punishments, unsubstantiated claims, and an aversion to science.

Sorry kiddo, but no.

 

[Assad91]

Is terrorism logical?

Islam=/=terrorism

 

[1robin]

Islam=/=terrorism

I do not think Terrorism = Muslims but an argument could be made that Islam promotes terrorism. Combine all those open ended surah's about killing unbelievers where ever you find them (and no many are applicable to any defensive campaign alone) with the thousands of Muslim terrorists who claim they are equal and all the peaceful Muslims are not truly Muslim's, and add in the chanting in the streets by thousands of Muslims when innocent people are murdered and it is easy to see why? I have your interpretation versus theirs and the far more numerous violent verses against the fewer peaceful ones (of which many were abrogated which is another problem its self). Islam can't blame anyone out side Islam for thinking some powerful connection between cowardly acts of violence and Islam exists. You have an uphill battle to prove it doesn't.

 

[1robin]

Yes, nothing is more logical than homophobia, misogyny, arbitrary laws with disproportionate punishments, unsubstantiated claims, and an aversion to science.

Sorry kiddo, but no.

Actually Islam while being theologically wrong IMO has been very important in science and especially medicine.

 

[FearGod]

Yes, nothing is more logical than homophobia, misogyny, arbitrary laws with disproportionate punishments, unsubstantiated claims, and an aversion to science.

Sorry kiddo, but no.

Which is all false accusation against Islam,bring your tangible evidences on the table,kiddo