You are wrong. There is no god.

[lunakilo]

I have had religious people tell me that deep down I must know that god does exist, and that my attempt at disbelieving god is stupid.
I always found that way of thinking ridiculous.
I never understood why people would say stupid things like that.

But something occured to me today.
I am sitting sitting in my sofa under a blanket drinking tea and feeling sorry for myself because my throat and ears hurt, looking out the window on the beautiful autumn colors. Apparently I get really philosophical in situations like this
What occured to me is that I am guilty of the exact same stupid way of thinking.

When I hear religious people talk about their deities and how their religion tells them how to live and how to look at the world, I always think "how can these people bring them selves to live like this? Deep down they must know that it is probably all made up."
I wonder how people can spend their lives pretending that something is true.

Just like those religious people who can't believe that I don't actually believe that any gods exist, I can't really believe that some people actually believe that gods are real.

To me my way of seeing the world makes sense to me, and I guess I find it very difficult to understand people who see things differently, because it so obviously doesn't make sense to me.

So my question is: Is it possible to understand, I mean really understand, other people who see the world differently from yourself?

 

[sandandfoam]

So my question is: Is it possible to understand, I mean really understand, other people who see the world differently from yourself?

Hope you get better soon

I believe that it is possible. My wife is a strong atheist. I don't think any person understand me better than she does.

 

[LuisDantas]

Interesting superposition of posts.

So my question is: Is it possible to understand, I mean really understand, other people who see the world differently from yourself?

Yes, but that is in fact a very ambitious question. Is "real understanding" not the same as love?

Hope you get better soon

I believe that it is possible. My wife is a strong atheist. I don't think any person understand me better than she does.

Case in point.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

It is possible - however it requires several things: You must have a very high level of awareness of your own thought processes including subconscious processing, biases and so forth. You must be able to suspend these influences to a significant degree. You must be able to comprehend their positions on a range of subjects and to recognise the varying degrees of importance that these have on different ways of thinking.

Generally speaking, one can only do this for someone you know quite well - but certainly it is possible if you are well aware of your own and their way of thinking and are able to exercise significant self control in order to simulate a different mode of thinking. Very difficult though and at least initially likely to be far from accurate; indeed with appropriate feedback or review one can recursively adopt a more accurate way of thinking based on revising your understanding of the other individual (or indeed of yourself).

Yes, but that is in fact a very ambitious question. Is "real understanding" not the same as love?

Personally I believe that understanding is merely intellectual, when people refer to 'real' understanding they are not merely referring to understanding or comprehension but rather an empathetic connection.

 

[lunakilo]

Yes, but that is in fact a very ambitious question. Is "real understanding" not the same as love?

I never thought of love as having anything to do with understanding.
I think love is very confusing. For no sensible reason you just love someone.

What I mean is if someones world view does not make sense to me, is there any way I can understand why they believe it?
If their way of thinking does not make sense to me, is there any way I can understand them?

 

[LuisDantas]

I never thought of love as having anything to do with understanding.

I can only assume that you are very young still.

I think love is very confusing. For no sensible reason you just love someone.

What I mean is if someones world view does not make sense to me, is there any way I can understand why they believe it?

Those questions tend to be self-defeating. I don't think I even understand most of my own beliefs. Do you understand why you have yours?

If their way of thinking does not make sense to me, is there any way I can understand them?

Actually yes, and it can be very rewarding indeed. But it is only possible with an investiment of your time and attention.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

It matters little, in the scheme of things, if you believe in God or not.
It also does not matter what you think God might be, whether he has any interest in you or anyone else? Whether he has a purpose for himself or you? Whether he is a he she or it? Whether he is more than just an Idea in peoples minds?

This world is for what ever reason on a journey through time, it has both a beginning and an end.
Mankind have so far taken up a very small part of that span. Their importance to the life of the world may be only temporary and eventually insignificant.

Before our time, there is no reason to suppose that the concept of God existed. Never the less most of mankind likes to believe that their lives have a purpose and perhaps that there is a universal purpose. It is reasonable to suppose that any such purpose relates in some way to this world. It would be unreasonable to believe it would be to make it worse than it is, or to destroy it.
It would make more sense if our purpose was for the betterment of the world in every way.
To achieve this it follows that we must improve our selves, our abilities, and our ethics.

By the time Our race or the world comes to its final moments, It will either end in a ball of fire as if we had never been... or we will have progressed in some way beyond our solar system... and the story continues.

With out this course of betterment, we shall end our days with the destruction of the Solar system.

I see God as the "influence" that caused that beginning, and guides that betterment process.
We can choose to ignore the future and live for today, we can choose to not bother to improve our selves or encourage others to do so. We can be indifferent to the future of the world. If so God will indeed not exist for us.

 

[Revoltingest]

I have had religious people tell me that deep down I must know that god does exist, and that my attempt at disbelieving god is stupid.
I always found that way of thinking ridiculous.
I never understood why people would say stupid things like that.

But something occured to me today.
I am sitting sitting in my sofa under a blanket drinking tea and feeling sorry for myself because my throat and ears hurt, looking out the window on the beautiful autumn colors. Apparently I get really philosophical in situations like this
What occured to me is that I am guilty of the exact same stupid way of thinking.

When I hear religious people talk about their deities and how their religion tells them how to live and how to look at the world, I always think "how can these people bring them selves to live like this? Deep down they must know that it is probably all made up."
I wonder how people can spend their lives pretending that something is true.

Just like those religious people who can't believe that I don't actually believe that any gods exist, I can't really believe that some people actually believe that gods are real.

To me my way of seeing the world makes sense to me, and I guess I find it very difficult to understand people who see things differently, because it so obviously doesn't make sense to me.

So my question is: Is it possible to understand, I mean really understand, other people who see the world differently from yourself?

You too?
I'm living on hot cocoa with a little whiskey....& some occasional bacon.
My scratchy throat likes this.
Too many people fail to appreciate that the perspective of others can be so different from their own. They quickly chalk it up to delusion, dishonesty or stupidity. We can believe some loopy things without being afflicted with those failings.

 

[Willamena]

Just like those religious people who can't believe that I don't actually believe that any gods exist, I can't really believe that some people actually believe that gods are real.

To me my way of seeing the world makes sense to me, and I guess I find it very difficult to understand people who see things differently, because it so obviously doesn't make sense to me.

So my question is: Is it possible to understand, I mean really understand, other people who see the world differently from yourself?

I always took it the other way: that some people genuinely believe in god means that they are understanding something that I wasn't seeing.

With an open mind, it is possible to understand what people are referring to when they talk about god, just as it is possible to grasp that a part of the world underlies and substantiates the world. Of course, it's still the case that different people refer to different things when they talk about god, but then that's all the more for you to grasp.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Meh, we're all pretty much the same on the inside. If you want to understand other people, just honestly look inside yourself.

Except for me. I'm special.

 

[Caladan]

So my question is: Is it possible to understand, I mean really understand, other people who see the world differently from yourself?

First of all I hope you feel better, if not I recommend a gogel-mogel
In my humble opinion, while we can know people very closely, even intimately, there will always be sides and deeper layers that we will not get to understand thoroughly perhaps because we come from a different place, or because we are simply wired differently.
People may share many basic similarities and even sensibilities, but the more I get to work with, study with, travel with different people, including people from different cultural niches, I understand how deeply different some people think, believe, or even feel than what I'm experiencing. I even feel it with some family members I've known for years who have cultural attachments that I didn't get to experience. Some of us simply gravitate towards a certain way of life and subjects. And the more we pursuit our curiosities, interests and passion, the more we become 'specialized' in them, and on many levels lose ways to relate to people who grew on different perspectives, or foster different perspectives of their own. Some of my friends are so radically different in personality traits from each other, that it doesn't matter that we know each other's shticks, and that we all adhere to similar basic norms on many levels, we are still essentially different people, who think and analyze things differently. It's even the kind of thing that might push us to seek advice from a specific friend when we believe they are the right person to inquire as to how they relate to a certain situation.

 

[Sunstone]

I suspect most of us make up our minds about whether or not something is true by how it makes us feel. If we feel it's true, we tend to believe it's true. That might lead some of us to make the argument that "deep down you really know that x is true". But such an argument would depend on feelings being an adequate guide to reality. And there is no clear evidence for such a view. In the end, feelings alone are all but worthless guides to reality.

 

[sandandfoam]

I suspect most of us make up our minds about whether or not something is true by how it makes us feel. If we feel it's true, we tend to believe it's true. That might lead some of us to make the argument that "deep down you really know that x is true". But such an argument would depend on feelings being an adequate guide to reality. And there is no clear evidence for such a view. In the end, feelings alone are all but worthless guides to reality.

There is very interesting neuroscience that indicates effective decision making requires feeling. Not quite the same as you're saying- but I think still pertinent.

 

[Sunstone]

There is very interesting neuroscience that indicates effective decision making requires feeling. Not quite the same as you're saying- but I think still pertinent.

That's a good point. Mr. Spock would not be capable of prioritizing, in real life. At least, that's how I understand the neuroscience. There was a study done on people who had suffered brain damages that prevented them from feeling emotions. The upshot was those people could not prioritize, and consequently, they had extreme difficulty making decisions. Deciding between posting a letter or going to lunch was a real chore for them that could sometimes take hours for them to resolve.

 

[Akivah]

So my question is: Is it possible to understand, I mean really understand, other people who see the world differently from yourself?

I think a person would have better grasp of another's thoughts if they had formerly had those same thoughts. But it will never be exact. For example, I used to not believe in G-d. I have related the reasons I didn't believe to other atheists and the reasons only partially aligned. So I'm able to understand partially, but not fully.

As each person's beliefs is based on their life experiences and no two people have identical life experiences, the best understanding we can ever get is a partial one.

 

[bobhikes]

So my question is: Is it possible to understand, I mean really understand, other people who see the world differently from yourself?

No I don't believe it is and I would like to state that everyone sees the world differntly then you.

I think we find similarities and then build the person we think they are in our mind and leave certain questions unasked. When these differences present themselves we are always shocked.

What you can do is understand this and try you best to comprehend the other.

Most people won't they just know they are right and go on there own way.

Its really amazing in your life you will only learn a miniscue amount of information and yet believe you know everything.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

I have had religious people tell me that deep down I must know that god does exist, and that my attempt at disbelieving god is stupid.
I always found that way of thinking ridiculous.
I never understood why people would say stupid things like that.

Well, I wouldn't say the idea is stupid (modesty ) but what I will say is the idea of atheism/naturalism is irrational...nonsensical, and any other synonym that can be included, and here is why...

I have eyes to see, ears to hear, a digestive system, reproductive system, circulatory system, immune system, a brain, a mind, etc. So basically, to be a naturalist, I have to believe that a mindless, brainless, and BLIND process that didn't know what it was doing...this process gave me eyes to see, ears to hear, mouth to speak, etc. The process didn't know what it was doing...didn't have a clue, no agenda whatsoever...yet it did all of these SPECIFIED things.

The process didn't have eyes, yet it gave me eyes to see, it didn't have ears, yet it gave me ears to hear. It didn't have a brain, yet it gave me a mind to think. Now without getting in to any technical biological/cosmological stuff, that is what the situation boils down too.

Now, I just can't get myself/force myself to believe that kind of stuff. There is no way you can convince me how a process that doesn't have a brain can somehow create creatures with brains. No way. But hey, people will continue to believe what they want.

But something occured to me today.
I am sitting sitting in my sofa under a blanket drinking tea and feeling sorry for myself because my throat and ears hurt, looking out the window on the beautiful autumn colors. Apparently I get really philosophical in situations like this
What occured to me is that I am guilty of the exact same stupid way of thinking.

When I hear religious people talk about their deities and how their religion tells them how to live and how to look at the world, I always think "how can these people bring them selves to live like this? Deep down they must know that it is probably all made up."

Well, I don't think my religion is made up. I have logic, science, and history on my side to corroberate my view.

So my question is: Is it possible to understand, I mean really understand, other people who see the world differently from yourself?

If I can't begin to understand how a blind man that is mentally challenged can paint the Mona Lisa, I can't begin to understand how a mindless and blind process can create not only life...but specified life with minds, brains, eyes, ears, etc. I just can't.

 

[nazz]

I have had religious people tell me that deep down I must know that god does exist, and that my attempt at disbelieving god is stupid.
I always found that way of thinking ridiculous.
I never understood why people would say stupid things like that.

But something occured to me today.
I am sitting sitting in my sofa under a blanket drinking tea and feeling sorry for myself because my throat and ears hurt, looking out the window on the beautiful autumn colors. Apparently I get really philosophical in situations like this
What occured to me is that I am guilty of the exact same stupid way of thinking.

When I hear religious people talk about their deities and how their religion tells them how to live and how to look at the world, I always think "how can these people bring them selves to live like this? Deep down they must know that it is probably all made up."
I wonder how people can spend their lives pretending that something is true.

Just like those religious people who can't believe that I don't actually believe that any gods exist, I can't really believe that some people actually believe that gods are real.

To me my way of seeing the world makes sense to me, and I guess I find it very difficult to understand people who see things differently, because it so obviously doesn't make sense to me.

So my question is: Is it possible to understand, I mean really understand, other people who see the world differently from yourself?

It's definitely difficult to do but not impossible. But one thing that might hamper an atheist trying to think like a theist would be if they had not experienced what the theist had.

 

[Me Myself]

I think that one person can be an atheist by denial ( in other words, truly believe in god/s but be in denial so atheists)

I also believe a person can be a theist by denial (in other words, truly believing there is nothing out there, but be too afraid of death or some other thing for which thinking there is seems more soothing, so they are in denial of their atheism)

About understanding, I think we can understand other people a lot. I do feel I understand very well how can someone be an atheist. Its hard for me to put into words why I am not but I am just truly truly animistic/panenTHEIST

Of course I wouldn't expect perfect understanding from usual humans. Unless perfectly aware of Godhood :meditate: m:

 

[Me Myself]

I suspect most of us make up our minds about whether or not something is true by how it makes us feel. If we feel it's true, we tend to believe it's true. That might lead some of us to make the argument that "deep down you really know that x is true". But such an argument would depend on feelings being an adequate guide to reality. And there is no clear evidence for such a view. In the end, feelings alone are all but worthless guides to reality.

Agreed. I think people underestimate how much they truly are driven by feelings above all else.

Even dependance on reason (which is good in most cases) comes from a feeling of trust and safety of having thought up something in specific ways that they wouldnt have with simply following more superficial emotional impulses.