You can't have perfect knowledge through science

[I-Ching]

The scientific method is based on a flawed axiom that we can know the reality through our senses. Unfortunately all human beings are subject to four defects:
1) Our senses are limited and imperfect
2) We make mistakes
3) We are in illusion
4) We cheat.

Due these defects we can not know the Truth through this method. In order to have perfect knowledge you must hear from higher authority. Just like if you want to know your father you have to ask your mother. You can't go to every man and test them.

 

[tarekabdo12]

I'm starting to admire your way of thinking but I can't understand what's the nature of your religious view.

 

[bobhikes]

It's all we got. Even if there is a higher authority. This authority doesn't regularly speak to everyone and correct our mistakes. You are also assuming this higher authority knows all and doesn't make mistakes unlike your birth father.

While I'll agree science is flawed, there is nothing better on this earth currently that explains things as accurately and unbiased.

 

[PolyHedral]

The scientific method is based on a flawed axiom that we can know the reality through our senses.

Of course it isn't. Modern science has not used unaided observations for decades. Everything is done through machine nowadays, because the scales involved are too small or too large for humans to even process. Science relies on the assumptions that the universe is consistent, and that causality applies. That is all.

3) We are in illusion

What does that even mean?

Due these defects we can not know the Truth through this method. In order to have perfect knowledge you must hear from higher authority. Just like if you want to know your father you have to ask your mother. You can't go to every man and test them.

In order to have perfect knowledge, you work from definition, i.e. mathematics. I will only accept a conclusion about the Reimann Hypothesis if the proof is provided, regardless of whether it's from God or Joe the Plumber.

 

[Madhuri]

It's all we got. Even if there is a higher authority. This authority doesn't regularly speak to everyone and correct our mistakes. You are also assuming this higher authority knows all and doesn't make mistakes unlike your birth father.

While I'll agree science is flawed, there is nothing better on this earth currently that explains things as accurately and unbiased.

I agree that as a source that everyone can tap into, science is wonderful.

But I would argue that science is unbiased. The scientific community to subject to politics and bias as much as anything. However, when compared with blind faith, science wins IMO!

My pov is that science is important. But it has limitations, especially at this point in time. If we are to believe or at least attempt to discover any truth within any religion, we must utilise the methods prescribed in those particular religions. For the most part, spirituality is an individual journey and is impossible to find proofs outside of one's very Self. And so the religions teach us how to discover truth from the greatest depths of our very being.

 

[Father Heathen]

The scientific method is based on a flawed axiom that we can know the reality through our senses. Unfortunately all human beings are subject to four defects:
1) Our senses are limited and imperfect
2) We make mistakes
3) We are in illusion
4) We cheat.

Due these defects we can not know the Truth through this method. In order to have perfect knowledge you must hear from higher authority. Just like if you want to know your father you have to ask your mother. You can't go to every man and test them.

So in other words it's preferable to rely upon some self-appointed representatives of god (who still possess the same flaws that you've listed) to make some random, arbitrary **** up to conveniently fill in the gaps?

 

[PolyHedral]

My pov is that science is important. But it has limitations, especially at this point in time. If we are to believe or at least attempt to discover any truth within any religion, we must utilise the methods prescribed in those particular religions. For the most part, spirituality is an individual journey and is impossible to find proofs outside of one's very Self. And so the religions teach us how to discover truth from the greatest depths of our very being.

I'm interested; What do you think are the limitations of science?

 

[Revoltingest]

The scientific method is based on a flawed axiom that we can know the reality through our senses.

It's only "flawed" if you unrealistically expect it to deliver more than it promises.
Scientific theories are never proven true. And all stand ready to be replaced by those providing better understanding & predictions.
To paraphrase George Box, all theories are wrong, but some are useful.
So far, I've seen nothing better for coping with reality than the scientific method.
But discussing its limitations is good too.

 

[I-Ching]

It's all we got. Even if there is a higher authority. This authority doesn't regularly speak to everyone and correct our mistakes. You are also assuming this higher authority knows all and doesn't make mistakes unlike your birth father.

While I'll agree science is flawed, there is nothing better on this earth currently that explains things as accurately and unbiased.

God is that higher authority. God is perfect and his Knowledge is perfect. Human knowledge is insignificant in comparison. God comes to this world Himself or he sends his representatives to impart that Knowledge to us.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

God is that higher authority. God is perfect and his Knowledge is perfect. Human knowledge is insignificant in comparison. God comes to this world Himself or he sends his representatives to impart that Knowledge to us.

And you know this how?

 

[Father Heathen]

I'm interested; What do you think are the limitations of science?

I can't speak on Madhuri's behalf, but I would say that science is limited to humankind's current, incomplete knowledge and understanding of the universe.

 

[PolyHedral]

God is that higher authority. God is perfect and his Knowledge is perfect. Human knowledge is insignificant in comparison. God comes to this world Himself or he sends his representatives to impart that Knowledge to us.

I can ask a question that God cannot answer. Godel trumps divinity.

I can't speak on Madhuri's behalf, but I would say that science is limited to humankind's current, incomplete knowledge and understanding of the universe.

I'd say that our knowledge is only limited to that "sphere" for want of time and data. AFAIK, given the data, science can tell you everything about everything you can test.

 

[Madhuri]

I'm interested; What do you think are the limitations of science?

FH answered it accurately. The knowledge we have now is limited because we have so far only glimpsed so little of what there is to discover. And discovery is likely a process that goes on and on, constantly finding new things, constantly changing theories and models etc.

It makes knowing truth/reality somewhat challenging for those of us who are so curious.

 

[Father Heathen]

God is that higher authority. God is perfect and his Knowledge is perfect. Human knowledge is insignificant in comparison. God comes to this world Himself or he sends his representatives to impart that Knowledge to us.

Ah, yes, his representatives...and why would god require the use of fallible mortals as middlemen? And considering that anyone can claim to speak on god's behalf, why should we trust without inquiry the irrational and unsubstantiated claims made by anyone? Sounds like an easy way to be deceived and manipulated.

 

[I-Ching]

Of course it isn't. Modern science has not used unaided observations for decades. Everything is done through machine nowadays, because the scales involved are too small or too large for humans to even process. Science relies on the assumptions that the universe is consistent, and that causality applies. That is all.

Machines may extent the range of our senses but they are still limited. There are many dimensions of reality that are not accessible to us.

What does that even mean?

Primarily we are in the illusion that is what we see with our senses is the ultimate reality.

 

[Revoltingest]

Machines may extent the range of our senses but they are still limited. There are many dimensions of reality that are not accessible to us.
Primarily we are in the illusion that is what we see with our senses is the ultimate reality.

I concur.
It's a very convincing illusion.

 

[Father Heathen]

I can ask a question that God cannot answer. Godel trumps divinity.

I'd say that our knowledge is only limited to that "sphere" for want of time and data. AFAIK, given the data, science can tell you everything about everything you can test.

There are some things we cannot yet acquire the data to test. We don't yet fully understand the nature of black holes or the human brain, but through continuous research and discovery our understanding becomes more clear with time. There's a difference between an educated guess and certainty.

That said, the scientific method is still vastly superior to simply pulling **** out of your ***.

 

[I-Ching]

Ah, yes, his representatives...and why would god require the use of fallible mortals as middlemen? And considering that anyone can claim to speak on god's behalf, why should we trust without inquiry the irrational and unsubstantiated claims made by anyone? Sounds like an easy way to be deceived and manipulated.

God doesn't require anything but some souls desire to serve Him in that way. God gives various symptoms by which we can identify such a Transcendental person.

 

[bobhikes]

God is that higher authority. God is perfect and his Knowledge is perfect. Human knowledge is insignificant in comparison. God comes to this world Himself or he sends his representatives to impart that Knowledge to us.

Those that believe in God seem to forget that if God exists, I am exactly as I am supposed to be. For god is perfect and created me with his perfect knowledge.

Well the knowledge he imparted on me is to put some of my faith in Human science.

 

[Madhuri]

Those that believe in God seem to forget that if God exists, I am exactly as I am supposed to be. For god is perfect and created me with his perfect knowledge.

Well the knowledge he imparted on me is to put some of my faith in Human science.

I actually agree with this