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You say that there is a god...

F1fan

Veteran Member
Hee. That's not what I said. I said they have a god and they (the atheists) serve them (the gods) .
Atheists don’t have gods. There are no gods to serve. I’m not sure why you need to be incorrect about this.

You don't know what gods are. I have given my definition, and you seem to be unaware of it, or ignoring it. Naturally if you're an atheist you can choose any defintion you like forcing your own preconceived conclusion. Atheists definitely have gods. And they serve at least one.
Your definition, or some other person’s definition, are not factual. Theists all over the planet disagree what god is, so no one has any clue definitively. There is nothing that can be known about gods because there is no phenomenon being observed.
The evidence is in this thread. Their god is void. It is what inspires creates and destroys belief and critical thinking. Anytime one of you lifts up critical thinking as an ideal you are serving the atheist-god. It's the same god you serve when promoting buddhist enlightnement. Hindu enlightment is more complex. I cannot comment on it.
This is your interpretation and inaccurate.
Also, that none of you rose up in opposition to @Audie's outrageous support for China's invasion of tibet, an unarmed nation is the some of the strongest evidence I have seen for the atheist-god. That is worse than evil, At least I can point to her post and say, that's worst of the worst evil. Everyone can see it, the bigotry, the injustice, the disregard for other humans based on the single fact that they're religious. Totally pure unfiltered evil coming from an atheist. But at least it is on display.

The rest of you, doing nothing, is worse than that. Because you can deny deny deny, "I didn't do nuthin". Yeah you did something. You were bowing to the void, and ignoring evil 'cause, that's what you all do. Serving your god is to ignore and deny.
You seem to be angry about everything.
Oh boy. You're fully in science-denier mode.

First of all, anyone can easily be effected by things they don't believe in. Just because you don't believe in a god, doesn't mean it hasn't taken up residence inside you. You just wouldn't know it. You don't have to believe in gravity, but guess what, poof, you're still on the ground.
Gravity is a known force. There are no gods known to exist.
And if you really want evidence of your god, I know you won't believe me, but, it's between your keyboard and the chair. You. Your posting is different. You're becoming closer to your buddhist ideal. Although, it's from pride, but none the less you're wearing the costume. That's because, I inspired you, but I did it using your god which is void. But you didn't know that's what I was doing. :) It's beautiful. It's not just you either. The biggest change is @ppp. Totally different tone, opening up, told his story. God helped him through the void. Which is technically a false god, but, anyway. He doesn't even know it. Even @Audie is temporarily posting in a more polite and more reasonable manner. :star:
Why do you want to keep insisting I have a god?
I knew it would work. And it doesn't matter if you believe it. God worked in your lives. The thing is, no matter how much good God does for any atheist, it will never be evidence. You'll never appreciate it. No amount of positive working in your life will do it. It would take the opposite to prove it to you. It would take torture and misery and endless unbelievable pain. Anything good that's evidence just goes down into that bottomless pit. But you asked for evidence and I delivered. I don't care if any of you hate me. Not even little. I'm happy to see you get a little something from God.
I’m not convinced any gods exist. You offer no evidence.
No one has brought any evidence that I am mistaken. And each time one of them like you, makes a bald assertion without backing it up, it is evidence that I'm right. Its not ciritical thinking unless it is applied equally towards your self and your own claims. If and when any of you act like gods in a debate, you are inviting critical evaluation of the god claim. Just like any theist.
You are insisting gods exist, so it’s on you to demonstrate you’re correct. More and more claims in not convincing.
But regarding contempt. There is nothing at all wrong with having contempt or even outright hatred for evil and its partner complicity (void). Nothing. If I see someone kicking a dog, then it's good and correct to have contempt for that. And, it is good and correct to have contempt and hatred for the people standing around watching that evil while doing nothing.
This doesn’t explain your contempt for those who disagree with you on this forum. Do you consider us evil?
Regarding arrogance, there is nothing wrong with being certain about certain types of claims.
Except when it clouds your judgment. And being certain about beliefs? Beliefs are held because a person can’t be certain.
For example:


Are all those people wrong? I think they are. Every single one of them. Don't you agree? The reason we can make a sweeping all inclusive statement about it is, it's a very simple issue. Yes or no, no diversity at all. Super simple. Either it was stolen or not. If not, they'r eall wrong. It's the simplicity that makes the certainty completely matter of fact and not arrogant. It's the same with atheism. It is so brain-dead simple. There is nothing to it at all. Nothing. It barely exists. There is no diversity to it. It's not a belief; it's not a postition. There is nothing there. That's why I can make a huge sweeping statement about it it's not arrogant at all. It's just a simple fact.
These people are an example of poor judgment because they lack the willingness to understand what is true in exchange for conspiracy theories. But that’s not relevant to arrogance.
On the other hand god-beliefs are very diverse, extremely diverse. That's why when you or the others over simplify, and make grandiose claims about all of us it is absurd and extremelt arrogant. Our god beliefs are the opposite of your nothing-atheism. When the atheist over simplifies it is very very wrong. But when one of us makes claim about atheism, it can be simple, it can be shallow, it can be all inclusive. Because there's nothing there to demand any kind of substance.
Yes, there is so much diversity in beliefs in many different gods that no one can claim any definitive knowledge. We can know the many concepts, but this doesn’t mean a god is understood. The contradictions of the many versions means a person will have to sift out the details they don’t want to come to a decision of what god is. That is subjective and irrelevant to anyone else.
None of you believe in gods, you'd never know if you were serving one if it were the extreme opposite of God which would be void. And once a person's god is void all sorts of other malicious gods can operate in you completely undetected. Why do you think satanists buddy up with atheists?
So how many gods do you think there are? You use the word liberally.

What you're actually observing is not arrogance, it's simply truth. Inconvenient, unpleasant truth. And it's good for you to hear it every now again. I'm not at all concerned of you or the others like it or like me. I literally do not care about that one bit.
You haven’t offered evidence that you have truth, and you misrepresent Buddhism, what I think, what others think, and are highly judgmental. That suggests arrogance, not truth. You think more highly of yourself than others do, and that’s not a good balance.
 
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Audie

Veteran Member
Atheists don’t have gods. There are no gods to serve. I’m not sure why you need to be incorrect about this.


Your definition, or some other person’s definition, are not factual. Theists all over the planet disagree what god is, so no one has any clue definitively. There is nothing that can be known about gods because there is no phenomenon being observed.

This is your interpretation and inaccurate.

You seem to be angry about everything.

Gravity is a known force. There are no gods known to exist.

Why do you want to keep insisting I have a god?

I’m not convinced any gods exist. You offer no evidence.

You are insisting gods exist, so it’s on you to demonstrate you’re correct. More and more claims in not convincing.

This doesn’t explain your contempt for those who disagree with you on this forum. Do you consider us evil?

Except when it clouds your judgment. And being certain about beliefs? Beliefs are held because a person can’t be certain.

These people are an example of poor judgment because they lack the willingness to understand what is true in exchange for conspiracy theories. But that’s not relevant to arrogance.

Yes, there is so much diversity in beliefs in many different gods that no one can claim any definitive knowledge. We can know the many concepts, but this doesn’t mean a god is understood. The contradictions of the many versions means a person will have to sift out the details they don’t want to come to a decision of what god is. That is subjective and irrelevant to anyone else.

So how many gods do you think there are? You use the word liberally.


You haven’t offered evidence that you have truth, and you misrepresent Buddhism, what I think, what others think, and are highly judgmental. That suggests arrogance, not truth. You think more highly of yourself than others do, and that’s not a good balance.
FWIW I offered no defense nor even
a reason for Beijing assering control
over Tibet.
I commented on the wretched conditions
created there by a feudal theocracy.

I do think highly enuf to move said person
to my exclusive iglist.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You don't know what gods are. I have given my definition, and you seem to be unaware of it, or ignoring it.
Your definition of a god is not his (or mine). He's likely rejecting your definition. Maybe he didn't put it into words.

You haven't given an explicit definition of a god to my knowledge. You later wrote, "Atheists definitely have gods. And they serve at least one." One can only guess at what you are referring to, but whatever it is, it's a metaphorical usage - not a literal definition of a god.

I have two definitions of a god.

First is the monotheistic god - a sentient universe creator, which may be described as interventional (leaves revelation, performs miracles, answers prayers, or appears on earth) or noninterventionist, like the deist god, who created our universe but no longer affects it.

Next are the polytheistic gods (Dharmic, pagan), which are altogether different. They seem to be symbols for natural phenomena, like Mother Nature is, but as a pantheon of assorted spirits representing the wind, destruction, wisdom, etc..

You obviously mean neither of those when you talk about atheistic gods and atheists serving them, but just what you do mean remains to be seen. I'm assuming at this point you mean that being a critical thinker is a form of worship, and that worship means worshiping gods.
Naturally if you're an atheist you can choose any defintion you like forcing your own preconceived conclusion.
Does that apply to a theist like you as well, or just atheists?
No one has brought any evidence that I am mistaken.
You mean none that entered your theater of consciousness. I've seen it. I've presented some myself. I'm sure you disagree.

Would you agree with the following? : There is no burden of proof with a reader unwilling or unable to consider an argument discompassionately, to recognize a sound argument when he sees one, and to be willing to modify his position in the presence of a compelling argument. If any of that is missing, it will be impossible to "prove" (convincingly argue) any point, and thus there can be no "burden" to do so.
can you see the picture below?
Yes. The other poster said not to be quick to dismiss the experience, and I clarified that I don't dismiss the experience, which I've had in the past and still have on occasion now, but rather it's interpretation. I don't know why you want to begin there. Is that controversial to you?

Let's not belabor this. Where are you going and why don't you just jump to the chase? I assume that you have been trying to defend yourself from my claim that you've changed my words into yours and then changed those into other words of yours even further from my meaning. If so, you're going to need to produce quotes and links to my original words that you paraphrased in the previous screenshot you posted, as well as the two quotes from you that I say are both deviations from that and you say are not. I offered to do that for you, but you didn't accept.

Now it seems you are off on an unrelated tack. Please connect all of this for me in your next post. Where are you going with this and to make what point? It doesn't seem to relate to our previous disagreement, which ought to either be dropped or resolved with a single post containing three quotes and their links, one from me and two from you. Hint: I've paraphrased my original claim in the screenshot you reproduced here, which is, when somebody tells me that they are experiencing a god, I don't believe them.

I'm guessing that you converted that into I know that they aren't experiencing a god. I have to be right here, don't I? The comment I made shouldn't have annoyed you. Whatever you heard did.

If I'm right about what's happening in your head - ideas are being transformed in their rendering from screen to mind from what was written to something else unbeknownst to you - would you want to know that? Notice that the question isn't whether you agree that that is happening, but rather that if it were, would you want to know that? If so, do the legwork and investigate, or allow me to help you.
 
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Audie

Veteran Member
If I'm right about what's happening in your head - ideas are being transformed in their rendering from screen to mind from what was written to something else unbeknownst to you - would you want to know that? Notice that the question isn't whether you agree that that is happening, but rather that if it were, would you want to know that? If so, do the legwork and investigate, or allow me to help you.
We see it a lot, people who have a
Converter that changes all input from
what was seen, said, or written to something
entirely different.

Whether this is especially characteristic
of theists, I don't know, but examples are
abundant among them..
It does though negate any value to the testimony
and opinion from such a person.

How this converosion process informs their
religiosity one can only imagine.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
We see it a lot, people who have a
Converter that changes all input from
what was seen, said, or written to something
entirely different.

Whether this is especially characteristic
of theists, I don't know, but examples are
abundant among them..
It does though negate any value to the testimony
and opinion from such a person.
I'd say any belief by faith can lead to the development of a confirmation bias when the belief can be contradicted with reason and evidence, and not limited to theistic faith. Climate, vaccine, and election deniers also do the same. Maybe you've seen MAGA member interviewed about Trump. They don't see what you and I see even when you show them.

But religion seems to be the king. How many times have you read a theist tell you or any other atheist that they have claimed gods don't exist? A few do that - strong or gnostic atheists - but most simply say that they are agnostic about gods, and this to NEVER be heard, understood, and assimilated.

When has one who makes that mistake of transforming "I don't believe in gods" into "there are no gods" ever stopped making it? When has one who made that mistake said, "Oh, so that's what you believe - not that gods don't exist but that you don't have cause to believe that they do, so you take no stand on that." Never in my experience.
How this conversion process informs their religiosity one can only imagine.
I think it's the other way around. Their religious beliefs are the cause of it. When one embraces a religious belief and then encounters evidence to the contrary, he often erects a confirmation bias to defend his belief from contradictory argument and evidence that does the transforming for him.

And it's not confined to the religious. Anybody willing to believe a wrong belief by faith is prone to confirmation bias that limits what he sees. This can be climate change denial, Covid vaccine efficacy denial, and election integrity denial.

I've been wondering two things about you for a while.

First, did you used to post as River Tam on Topix before it went defunct? She was a lot like you - a young Asian woman and independent thinker with a similar assertive demeanor.

Second, I wrote a joke that you might find offensive or maybe funny. Asking for permission to share. It begins, "My Asian girlfriend came over to make us dinner followed by passionate love making and sleep." The joke makes reference to a cliche about Chinese food and ends with what I consider a clever and funny pun. Shall I share it with you, or would you prefer I didn't?
 

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
can you see the picture below?


Great. I will happily read and reply to the rest of your post once we get this issue cleared up, OK? I've made a nice target for you to shoot at, and I'll be glad to hand you the ammo to use against me. ( Something to consider, maybe not you, but the others, why would I do that willingly if I'm malicious? )

If you could, you could be quoting me and linking, too, but you don't.

I have been quoting you and linking. I brought the whole context, the whole message. Not just for one example. but for both the examples that have been discussed.

I didn't do a copy-edit-paste, which you have been objecting to and accusing me of doing. I took a screenshot. So why are you making this false claim that I didn't quote you, or provide a link? It's a simple mistake, in theory. But you are quiting and replying to the majority of my posts. So, it seems like you would need to intentionally ignore it, and then make a false accusation.

So what's going on?
 

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
We see it a lot, people who have a
Converter that changes all input from
what was seen, said, or written to something
entirely different.

Ironic, because that is precisely what @It Aint Necessarily So is advocating that he is able to do. But, is unwilling to grant others the possibility that they have his god-like power. He doesn't realize, and neither do others who do this, that they are making a god claim about themself. Which invites criticism and requires outrageous amounts of verifiable evidence.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I will happily read and reply to the rest of your post once we get this issue cleared up, OK?
Clear what up? I asked you to explain where you're going with this quoting Salix and my response to him, and you didn't. I will happily comply with your request if comply with mine. That has to be next, and it has to include your end point and purpose - what you are trying to establish now. I've done that for you. You're asking me to trust your judgment that this will lead somewhere of interest to me, and dragging it out over multiple posts.
I didn't do a copy-edit-paste, which you have been objecting to and accusing me of doing. I took a screenshot.
That's fine, but you didn't try to meet my request. All I want from you is three linked quotes, and that screenshot wouldn't have been one of them. Really: either post my original claim with or without the supporting argument, your first paraphrasing of it, then the second one, with links to all, or don't bother posting anything and I will consider the issue tentatively resolved until you do.

Also, you seem to have me confused with somebody else. I prefer cut-and-paste, and have told you as much:

1689535999704.png

As you can see, this is less useful than a cut-and-paste. You can't quote any of it without finding the original post or retyping the text, and you're not going to be able to check out that link, either.
why are you making this false claim that I didn't quote you, or provide a link?
What I wrote was, "If you could, you could be quoting me and linking, too, but you don't." You've transformed my claim again, but this time not by changing my words, but by removing from relevant context that reveals that those words don't bean what you imply they mean - any quote or any link. Here's the entire comment:

"Although you are likely sincere in expressing that belief, what I see is you projecting your cognitive defect onto me. As your own memories transform, you understand it as others changing their positions instead. Why? Because your opinions can be demonstrated to be evolving unknown to you. Would you like me to demonstrate that for you and the thread? If so, I will quote and link my comment, your first transformation of it - the "close enough" version - followed by your second transformation when you changed it again. It's very easy to do. Would that help you or embarrass you? You can't do the same in return. If you could, you could be quoting me and linking, too, but you don't. You refuse to even when specifically asked to. In fact, it gets worse below when you start putting your unlinked straw man comments in quotes, also coming right up."

So here's the deal. We cooperate or we're done. I'm not interested in your Socratic method approach - too slow and I need to know where you're headed anyway - and you don't seem to be interested in what I want. Get it all done in the next post, or I'm satisfied that the discussion is over and the matter settled until you do. There is no reason you can't comply with it if you understand the request. And if you can't or won't, well, from the pen of the poet:

Makin' my last proclamation
Gonna lay it on the line
Baby I'm runnin' out of patience
And you are runnin' out of time

Ironic, because that is precisely what @It Aint Necessarily So is advocating that he is able to do. But, is unwilling to grant others the possibility that they have his god-like power. He doesn't realize, and neither do others who do this, that they are making a god claim about themself. Which invites criticism and requires outrageous amounts of verifiable evidence.
That was in response to "We see it a lot, people who have a Converter that changes all input from what was seen, said, or written to something entirely different."

"Precisely," huh? You're conflating an involuntary act with a deliberate one. You're conflating unknowingly misunderstanding what was read to disagreeing with what was read and offering an alternative understanding. I'm suggesting that you are unaware that you do that. I not only know I reinterpret the words, it was I who told you that, and what I transform them into.
 

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Atheists don’t have gods. There are no gods to serve. I’m not sure why you need to be incorrect about this.

Prove it. A god is anything that has the power to create destory or inspire. If you're claiming that atheists are uninspired by anything, that's an interesting claim.

Your definition, or some other person’s definition, are not factual.

If you're right, then your own definition is equally not factual. See how that works? You just defeated yourself. Good work, I don't have to anything.

Theists all over the planet disagree what god is, so no one has any clue definitively. There is nothing that can be known about gods because there is no phenomenon being observed.

That supports the definition. it doesn't undermine it. A god is a general concept. Didn't I say this already?

This is your interpretation and inaccurate.

Empty claim, lacking evidence rejected.

You seem to be angry about everything.

Not in the slightest, I told you. I'm happy as a kosher-clam. I get to watch God working in your life. Although it seems like you've taken off the buddhist costume. Oh well.

Do you know anything about anger? It's fundemental qualities? Maybe you think you do because your own anger is cloaked in the void that is inside you. But, I actually understand it and how it works.

Let me help you: anger requries a lack of power. without that lack of power it's not anger, it's something else. I am far from powerless. I cannot be angry.

I'm right. Confidence. You perceive it as a negative, because you're wrong, and you can feel it. If you didn't then you would not perceive it as anger. It would be meaningless to you. but since you never actually learned about the inner-workings of the mind or emotions in your practice, you are simply taught to annihilate them, you are completely oblivious. You think you understand them, because you were able to experience some relief in your life. But that's not from understanding; it's from ignorance.

Gravity is a known force. There are no gods known to exist.

Irrevelvant to the point. Just as a person does not need to believe in gravity for gravity to be a force in the their life, an atheist does not need to believe in a god, for the god to be an influence in their life.

Just as a person might be working for a shell company without knowing whom they are working for, an atheist might be serving a god without knowing whom they are serving.

Hence the satanists partnering with the atheists and having a nice laugh about it.

Why do you want to keep insisting I have a god?

Because it's obvious and you should know the truth. Don't you want the truth? The fact is, if you would listen to me, and learn a little, your arguments would become stronger, and more convincing. You would be able to accomplish more with less. And you would be innoculated against all sorts of deceptions. I'm trying to help you. And everytime you ask for evidence of God, and proclaim you know what a god is, you are giving informed consent for me to try to help you.

I’m not convinced any gods exist. You offer no evidence.

You ignored it. Actual critical thinkers do not do this. It can be deadly. Didn't you say that recently? Chicken little pointing up, "the sky is falling, someone said 'God', it could be deadly, watch out!!!!" Some harmless theist says the word God in a debate and you claim it's deadly?

Just like that totally evil comment about tibet, You're charging an unarmed person because they're religious. Shame on you.

You are insisting gods exist, so it’s on you to demonstrate you’re correct. More and more claims in not convincing.

I did, I gave you a picture of multiple gods. Real measurable observable gods. I guess I'm correct about the qualities needed to recognize them, and you seem to be lacking them.

Here they are again: Ignorance, jealousy, deception ( not the same as ignorance ), but also duty, and quite a few others. Your god 'void' is in there too. Hee. But it's hiding in plain sight. And you need to level up in order to see it. Have you tried reviewing some koans? They'll really help with this. If in fact you are buddhist.


1689536715350.png

This doesn’t explain your contempt for those who disagree with you on this forum. Do you consider us evil?

You can be. Sure. Do you deny it?

Except when it clouds your judgment. And being certain about beliefs? Beliefs are held because a person can’t be certain.

Why did you crop out the correct and true argument I brought? You are in science denier mode. My claims about atheism are even more simple than the claim about the 2020 election being stolen.

Do you deny that that every single person, 1/3 of Americans, who claim the election was stolen is wrong?
Do you deny that atheism is even more simple of a concept than that? Isn't it brain-dead-stupid simple? Don't atheists proclaim that babies are born atheists? do you see how your own claims prove I'm correct?

It's a fact; atheism is not just the "flip side" of theism. They are inverted from each other. They are opposite in every way. This is a concept that is somewhat difficult to grasp. I don't blame you for not getting it.

Theism is just as complicated and diverse AS atheism is simple and uniform. If atheism is infinitely simple and uniform THEN Theism is infinitly complicated and diverse.

Because of this when someone makes a broad sweeping claim about theism, they must bring huge volumes of very strong evidence unless it supports the diversity and the complexity.

And because of this when someone makes a broad sweeping claim about atheism, they do not need to bring huge volumes of very strong evidence to support it because it is supporting the inherent simplicity and lack of diversity.

I have evidence that atheism serves a god. we saw it in action, right here in this thread. None of you reacted or challenged your commrade when they supported one of the highest forms of evil that existed. All of you who are atheists were serving a god which is void. One of the side-effects of this god is that you have no idea you are serving a god, and that makes you open to multiple forms of suggestion, manipluation and deception. I also proved that this is the case. By your own informed consent I used your god against you to prove it's existence.

But I am not angry, I'm happy it worked. And I'm not malicious because I will happily tell you how it works, and I've been trying to do so for multiple posts now.


These people are an example of poor judgment because they lack the willingness to understand what is true in exchange for conspiracy theories. But that’s not relevant to arrogance.

Hee. No... you have missed the point. The point is, it is not arrogant to be correct in broad sweeping ways about large portions of people if the claim is of a specific type. So your claim that I am arrogant is without merit. What you are observing in my behavior is just as approriate as the the claims you made above. You made a statement above with absolute certainty. What you're saying is not arrogant and neither is what I'm saying.

However, you did just admit that a god exists. It's name is "willful-ignorance". See how your own statements just keep undermining your position? Probably not. You're still serving the void.

Yes, there is so much diversity in beliefs in many different gods that no one can claim any definitive knowledge.

And that supports the definition. It doesn't undermine it.

We can know the many concepts, but this doesn’t mean a god is understood.

False. It is understanding a general concept. It's different than knowledge. Haven't you heard of neti-neti? Negative deductions.

The problem here, which is common, is the conflation of knowledge and understanding. Not knowing can can produce affirmative understanding. But a person needs to know how to do it. Most theists do it instinctivley. They FEEL it. And they don't need to explain it. But some people are less capable. They require absolute, intellectual, put it in a box so I can touch it, taste it, smell it, rub it on my face sorts of understanding. I think those people are actually very rare. But for those people there is an intellectual approach they can work with to understand God. It's just very very difficult. Understanding a god is pretty simple. But if a person's god is void, then, even that is unreachable.

And that's the evidence for anyone who isn't serving this god which is void, to see it in action. The evidence is, a person's inability to comprehend a very simple god concept. If that is the case, then the god 'void' exists.

The contradictions of the many versions means a person will have to sift out the details they don’t want to come to a decision of what god is. That is subjective and irrelevant to anyone else.

Nah. It's just a general category. Love and Hate contradict each other. But please tell me you understand they are both emotions. And a person can engage in a love+hate relationship inspite of the contradiction. That's because the rules you believe in are not valid in this.

So how many gods do you think there are? You use the word liberally.

Infinite!!!!!

You haven’t offered evidence that you have truth, and you misrepresent Buddhism, what I think, what others think, and are highly judgmental. That suggests arrogance, not truth. You think more highly of yourself than others do, and that’s not a good balance.

That'a the band wagon fallacy again. It doesn't matter how many of you think what you think. No volume of ignorance undermines even the tinest speck of truth.

If you were critically thinking, you would be bringing a defintion of arrogance, and a defintion of pride. Then you would bring evidence that I am being arrogant, and simultaneously that I am not justified in being proud. That is a proper argument for a critical thinker to make. Instead, you're playing up the the crowd and puffing you your own ego, the other so-called critical thinkers, and completely oblivious that you are proving my point.

But it's obvous to me, that you don't understand arrogance. You don't understand pride. You don't know their limits, or their sphere of influence. You don't know how it works. If you did you wouldn't be making the claims you're making. Go ahead and try to make your argument, I will bury you. That isn't arrogance, that's a cold hard fact. You may not like how it feels. I don't care.

If you listened to me, your arguments would be stronger, you would be a more effective person. Everytime you ask for evidence, you justify my reaction. I'm showing you. I'm giving you the evidence.

You don't know what you don't know, and that is a lot!
 
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dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
I’m not convinced any gods exist. You offer no evidence.

You ignored it. Actual critical thinkers do not do this. It can be deadly. Didn't you say that recently? Chicken little pointing up, "the sky is falling, someone said 'God', it could be deadly, watch out!!!!" Some harmless theist says the word God in a debate and you claim it's deadly?

Just like that totally evil comment about tibet, You're charging an unarmed person because they're religious. Shame on you.

You are insisting gods exist, so it’s on you to demonstrate you’re correct. More and more claims in not convincing.

I did, I gave you a picture of multiple gods. Real measurable observable gods. I guess I'm correct about the qualities needed to recognize them, and you seem to be lacking them.

Here they are again: Ignorance, jealousy, deception ( not the same as ignorance ), but also duty, and quite a few others. Your god void is in there too. Hee. But it's hiding in plain sight. And you need to level up in order to see it. Have you trid reviewing some koans? They'll really help with this. If in fact you are buddhist.


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This doesn’t explain your contempt for those who disagree with you on this forum. Do you consider us evil?

You can be. Sure. Do you deny it?

Except when it clouds your judgment. And being certain about beliefs? Beliefs are held because a person can’t be certain.

Why did you crop out the correct and true argument I brought? You are in science denier mode. My claims about atheism are even more simple than the claim about the 2020 election being stolen.

Do you deny that that every single person, 1/3 of Americans, who claim the election was stolen are wrong?
Do you deny that atheism is even more simple of a concept than that? Far and away more simple. Isn't it brain-dead-stupid simple? Don't aethists proclaim that babies are born atheists? do you see how your own claims prove I'm correct?

What you have not addressed, and probably will not address is the fact that atheism is not just the "flip side" of theism. They are inverted from each other. They are opposite in every way. This is a concept that is somewhat difficult to grasp. I don't blame you for not getting it. And perhaps that is why you are ignoring it.

Theism is just as complicated and diverse AS atheism is simple and uniform. If atheism is infinitely simple and uniform THEN Theism is infinitly complicated and diverse.

Because of this when someone makes a broad sweeping claim about theism, they must bring huge volumes of very strong evidence unless it supports the diversity and the complexity.

Because of this when someone makes a broad sweeping claim about atheism, they do not need to bring huge volumes of very strong evidence to support it because it is supporting the inherent simplicity and lack of diversity.

I have evidence that atheism serves a god. we saw it in action right here in this thread. None of you reacted or challenged your commrade when they supported one of the highest forms of evil that existed. All of you who are atheists were serving a god which is void. One of the side-effects of this god is that you have no idea you are serving a god, and that makes you open to multiple forms of suggestion, manipulation and deception. I also proved that this is the case. By your own informed consent I used your god against you to prove its existence.

But I am not angry, I'm happy it worked. And I'm not malicious because I will happily tell you how it works, and I've been trying to do so for multiple posts now.

These people are an example of poor judgment because they lack the willingness to understand what is true in exchange for conspiracy theories. But that’s not relevant to arrogance.

Hee. No... you have missed the point. The point is, it is not arrogant to be correct in broad sweeping ways about large portions of people if the claim is of a specific type. So your claim that I am arrogant is without merit. I am making a specific tye of claim which permits being certain without being arrogant.

What you are observing in my behavior is just as approriate as the the claims you made above. You made a statement above with absolute certainty. What you're saying is not arrogant. And my claim is of a similar type but even more simple. If your claim is not arrogant, then neither is mine.

However, you did just admit that a god exists. It's name is "lack the willingness to understand". See how your own statements just keep undermining your position? Probably not. You're still serving the void.

Yes, there is so much diversity in beliefs in many different gods that no one can claim any definitive knowledge.

And that supports the definition. It doesn't undermine it.

We can know the many concepts, but this doesn’t mean a god is understood.

False. That is the understanding. It is understanding a general concept. Haven't you heard of neti-neti? Its a negative deductions. Oh yeah, you haven't figured out buddhism yet.

The problem here, which is common, is the conflation of knowledge and understanding. Not-knowing can produce affirmative understanding. But a person needs to know how to do it. Most theists do it instinctivley. They FEEL it. And they don't need to explain it. But some people are less capable. They require absolute intellectual, put it in a box so I can touch it, taste it, smell it, rub it on my face sorts of understanding. I think those people are actually very rare. But for those people there is an intellectual approach they can work with to understand God. It's just very very difficult. Understanding a god is pretty simple. But if a person's god is void, then, even that is unreachable.

And that's the evidence for anyone who isn't serving this god which is void, to see it in action. The evidence is, a person's inability to comprehend a very simple god concept.

The contradictions of the many versions means a person will have to sift out the details they don’t want to come to a decision of what god is. That is subjective and irrelevant to anyone else.

Nah. It's just a general category. Love and Hate contradict each other. But please tell me you understand they are both emotions. And a person can engage in a love+hate relationship inspite of the contradiction. That's because the rules you believe in are not valid in this.

So how many gods do you think there are? You use the word liberally.

Infinite!!!!!

You haven’t offered evidence that you have truth, and you misrepresent Buddhism, what I think, what others think, and are highly judgmental. That suggests arrogance, not truth. You think more highly of yourself than others do, and that’s not a good balance.

That'a the band wagon fallacy again. It doesn't matter how many of you think what you think. No volume of ignorance undermines even the tinest speck of truth.

If you were critically thinking, you would be bringing a defintion of arrogance, and a defintion of pride. Then you would bring evidence that I am being arrogant, and simultaneously that I am not justified in being proud. That is a proper argument for a critical thinker to make. That is actual critical thinking. Instead, you're playing up the the crowd and your own ego, the other so-called critical thinkers, and completely oblivious that you are proving my point.

But it's obvious to me, that you don't understand arrogance. You don't understand pride. You don't know their limits, or their sphere of influence. You don't know how it works. If you did you wouldn't be making the claims youre making. Go ahead and try to make your argument, I will bury you. That isn't arrogance, that's a cold hard fact. You may not like how it feels. I don't care.

If you listened to me, your arguments would be stronger, you would be a more effective person. Everytime you ask for evidence, you justify my reaction. I'm showing you. I'm giving you the evidence.

You don't know what you don't know, and that is a lot!
 

Orbit

I'm a planet
Prove it. A god is anything that has the power to create destory or inspire. If you're claiming that atheists are uninspired by anything, that's an interesting claim.



If you're right, then your own definition is equally not factual. See how that works? You just defeated yourself. Good work, I don't have to anything.



That supports the definition. it doesn't undermine it. A god is a general concept. Didn't I say this already?



Empty claim, lacking evidence rejected.



Not in the slightest, I told you. I'm happy as a kosher-clam. I get to watch God working in your life. Although it seems like you've taken off the buddhist costume. Oh well.

Do you know anything about anger? It's fundemental qualities? Maybe you think you do because your own anger is cloaked in the void that is inside you. But, I actually understand it and how it works.

Let me help you: anger requries a lack of power. without that lack of power it's not anger, it's something else. I am far from powerless. I cannot be angry.

I'm right. Confidence. You perceive it as a negative, because you're wrong, and you can feel it. If you didn't then you would not perceive it as anger. It would be meaningless to you. but sine you never actually learned about the inner-workings of the mind or emotions in your practice, you are simply taught to annihilate them, you are completely oblivious. You think you understand them, because you were able to experience some relief in your life. But that's not from understanding it's from ignorance.



Irrevelvant to the point. Just as a person does not need to believe in gravity for gravity to be a force in the their life, an atheist does not need to believe in a god, for the god to be an influence in their life.

Just as a person might be working for a shell company wihout knowing whom they are working for, an atheist might be serving a god without knowing whom they are serving.

Hence the satanists partnering with the atheists and having a nice laugh about it.



Because it's obvious and you should know the truth. Don't you want the truth? The fact is, if you would listen to me, and learn a little, your arguments would become stronger, and more convincing. You would be able to accomplish more with less. And you would be innoculated against all sorts of deceptions. I'm trying to help you. And everytime you ask for evidence of God, and proclaim you know what a god is, you are giving informed consent for me to try to help you.



You ignored it. Actual critical thinkers do not do this. It can be deadly. Didn't you say that recently? Chicken little pointing up, "the sky is falling, someone said 'God', it could be deadly, watch out!!!!" Some harmless theist says the word God in a debate and you claim it's deadly?

Just like that totally evil comment about tibet, You're charging an unarmed person because they're religious. Shame on you.



I did, I gave you a picture of multiple gods. Real measurable observable gods. I guess I'm correct about the qualities needed to recognize them, and you seem to be lacking them.

Here they are again: Ignorance, jealousy, deception ( not the same as ignorance ), but also duty, and quite a few others. Your god void is in there too. Hee. But it's hiding in plain sight. And you need to level up in order to see it. Have you trid reviewing some koans? They'll really help with this. If in fact you are buddhist.


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You can be. Sure. Do you deny it?



Why did you crop out the correct and true argument I brought? You are in science denier mode. My claims about atheism are even more simple than the claim about the 2020 election being stolen.

Do you deny that that every single person, 1/3 of Americans, who claim the election was stolen are wrong?
Do you deny that atheism is even more simple of a concept than that? Far and away more simple. Isn't it brain-dead-stupid simple? Don't aethists proclaim that babis are corn atheists? do you see who your own claims prove I'm correct?

What you have not addressed, and probably will not address is the fact that atheism is not just the "flip side" of theism. They are inverted from each other. They are opposite in every way. This is a concept that is somewhat difficult to grasp. I don't blame you for not getting it. And perhaps that why you are ignoring it.

Theism is just as complicated and diverse AS atheism is simple and uniform. If atheism is infinitely simple and uniform THEN Theism is infinitly complicated and diverse.

Because of this when someone makes a broad sweeping claim about theism, they must bring huge volumes of very strong evidence unless it supports the diversity and the complexity.

Because of this when someone makes a broad sweeping claim about atheism, they do not need to bring huge volumes of very strong evidence to support it because it is supporting the inherent simplicity and lack of diversity.

I have evidence that atheism serves a god. we say it in action right here in this thread. None of you reacted or challenged your commrade when they supported one of the highest forms of evil that existed. All of you who are atheists were serving a god which is void. One of the side-effects of this gaod is that you have no idea you are serving a god, and that makes you open to multiple forms of suggestion, manipluation and deception. I also proved that this is the case. By your own informed consent I used your god against you to prove it's existence.

But I am not angry, I'm happy it worked. And I'm not malicious because I will happily tell you how it works, and I've been trying to do so for multiple posts now.




Hee. No... yu have missed the point. The point is, it is not arrogant to be correct in broad sweeping ways about large portions of people if the claim is of a specific type. S your claim that I am arrogant is without merit. What you are observing in my behavior is just as approriate as the the claims you made above. You made a statement above with absolute certainty. It's not arrogant. What you're saying is not arrogant.

However, you did just admit that a god exists. It's name is "lack the willingness to understand". See how your on statements just keep undermining your position? Probably not. You're still serving the void.



And that supports the definition. It doesn't undermine it.



False. That is the understanding. It is understanding a general concept. Haven't you heard of neti-neti? Negative deductions.

The problem here, which is common, is the conflation of knowledge and understanding. Not knowing can can produce affirmative understanding. But a person needs to know how to do it. Most theists do it instinctivley. They FEEL it. And they don't need to explain it. But some people are less capable. They require absolute intellectual, put it in a box so I can touch it, taste it, smell it, rub it on my face sorts of understanding. I think those people are actually very rare. But for those people there is an intellectual approach they can work with to understand God. It's just very very difficult. Understanding a god is pretty simple. But if a person's god is void, then, even that is unreachable.

And that's the evidence for anyone who isn't serving this god which is void, to see it in action. The evidence is, a person's inability to comprehend a very simple god concept.



Nah. It's just a general category. Love and Hate contradict each other. But please tell me you understand they are both emotions. And a person can engage in a love+hate relationship inspite of the contradiction. That's because the rules you believe in are not valid in this.



Infinite!!!!!



That'a the band wagon fallacy again. It doesn't matter how many of you think what you think. No volume of ignorance undermines even the tinest speck of truth.

If you were critically thinking, you would be bringing a defintion of arrogance, and a defintion of pride. Then you would bring evidence that I am being arrogant, and simultaneously that I am not justified in being proud. That is a proper argument for a critical thinker to make. That is actual critical thinking. Instead, you're playing up the the crowd, the other so-called critical thinkers, and completely oblivious that you are proving my point.

But it's obvous to me, that you don't understand arrogance. You don't understand pride. You don't know their limits, or the sphere of influence. You don't know how it works. If you did you wouldn't be making the claims youre making. Go ahead and try to make your argument, I will bury you. That isn't arrogance, that's a cold hard fact. You may not like how it feels. I don't care.

If you listened to me, your arguments would be stronger, you would be a more effective person. Everytime you ask for evidence, you justify my reaction. I'm showing you. I'm giving you the evidence.

You don't know what you don't know, and that is a lot!

I have been reluctant to post in this thread, because (1) unlike many on RF, I am not retired, but am a busy professional and may not be able to return in a timely manner to respond to posts and (2) I am not keen to be on the receiving end of the ad hominem attacks that I have observed going on here.

Because I don't post very often, I feel it may be useful to give a bit of background for those not familiar with me. I am an agnostic atheist and ex-Christian. For those not familiar with the terminology, this precisely means that I do not believe that any human can know if gods exist, and as a result, I withhold belief in gods, of any kind. That's my choice.

I do not begrudge theists their choices. I know some fine theists on RF, in particular Windwalker comes to mind. In my life, I have known many fine theists, and grew up with many fine Jewish people, one a Rabbi who I have known since high school. His humor, wisdom, and humility never cease to inspire.

That however, is not what I see in this thread. So far in this thread I have seen dybmh make several ad hominem attacks, and thereby avoid the actual subject at issue in the thread. I have seen him declare that ItAin'tNecessarilySo and others have a "god complex"; that IANS is a pothead; and that atheists "worship" themselves, or a void, and declare themselves gods, all without a shred of evidence, and with considerable sarcasm and vehemence. He references "team atheist" to minimize their objections to his aggression, and falsely suggests that atheists are a monolithic "team" who have ganged up on him. There is no atheist team. Buddhists do not "worship" a void--that's the most bizarre misrepresentation of Buddhism that I've ever seen.

So I would like to gently redirect this thread, if possible, back to the OP and hope for a good faith conversation, or if need be, debate, on whether any human can truly know if gods exist.
 

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Clear what up?

The question I asked was: "why are you making this false claim that I didn't quote you, or provide a link?"

I asked you to explain where you're going with this quoting Salix and my response to him, and you didn't.

You are either lying or completely out of your mind. This is why I am not moving on until I have some evidence that I am conversing with an honest and sane person, both. Both conditions need to be met.

This is what you said:

If you could, you could be quoting me and linking, too, but you don't.

Now you have competely flip flopped.

You said: "If you could, you could be quoting me and linking, too, but you don't." But I was doing exactly that.
Now you are flip flopping to: "I asked you to explain where you're going with this quoting Salix and my response to him, and you didn't.

You accused me of not quoting. Not linking. But I was.

Clear what up?

The fact that you made repeated false accusations which are easily verifiable. But you calim to be an excellent thinker, and that is the summation of your argument. Let's clear this up. You have been making a god-claim about yourself.

Everyone makes mistakes, I gave you the opportunity acknowlege the mistake. Now you are flopping like a fish.
 

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
He references "team atheist" to minimize their objections to his aggression, and falsely suggests that atheists are a monolithic "team" who have ganged up on him.

Not at all. I haven't said any one is ganging up on me. I said I made a big target for them, and I'm happy to give them more ammo.

All that's happening is a reverse a reflection of what happens on RF all the time. The atheist though is unaware of their own god-claims which they are making about themselves. They perceive themselves as are immune to any sort of faulty thinking. And that invites heavy critique. Outrageous claims, require outrageous evidence.

There is no rue here that prohibits forceful debating. And I am forcefully debating. There is nothing wrong with pointing the negative impact of weed on a person, if they are presenting delusions of grandeur.

I am not a Rabbi, I don't need to act like a Rabbi. No need to reply. Thank you for your feedback.
 

Orbit

I'm a planet
Not at all. I haven't said any one is ganging up on me. I said I made a big target for them, and I'm happy to give them more ammo.

All thats happening is a reverse a reflection of what happens on RF all the time. The atheist though is unaare of their own god-claims which hey are making about themselves. They perceive they are immune to any sort of faulty thinking. And that invites heavy critique. Outrageous claims, require outrageous evidence.

I am not a Rabbi, I don't need to act like a Rabbi.

Please explain your statement "The atheist though is unaware of their own god claims". I am especially curious since no god claims have been made, and appear to be only in your imagination. No "outrageous claim" has been made. Why are you manufacturing this?
 

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Please explain your statement "The atheist though is unaware of their own god claims". I am especially curious since no god claims have been made, and appear to be only in your imagination. No "outrageous claim" has been made. Why are you manufacturing this?

I'm sorry, I need to go. I will reply soon.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The question I asked was: "why are you making this false claim that I didn't quote you, or provide a link?"



You are either lying or completely out of your mind. This is why I am not moving on until I have some evidence that I am conversing with an honest and sane person, both. Both conditions need to be met.

This is what you said:



Now you have competely flip flopped.

You said: "If you could, you could be quoting me and linking, too, but you don't." But I was doing exactly that.
Now you are flip flopping to: "I asked you to explain where you're going with this quoting Salix and my response to him, and you didn't.

You accused me of not quoting. Not linking. But I was.



The fact that you made repeated false accusations which are easily verifiable. But you calim to be an excellent thinker, and that is the summation of your argument. Let's clear this up. You have been making a god-claim about yourself.

Everyone makes mistakes, I gave you the opportunity acknowlege the mistake. Now you are flopping like a fish.
So "no" to my request to proceed cooperatively? No problema. Adios. Thanks for your time.
 

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
I have seen dybmh make several ad hominem attacks... aggression

regarding ad-hom:

The two individuals I am debating with primarily opened themelves up to ad-hom arguments. @It Aint Necessarily So's entire argument is based on their own individual excellence. That's it. That's what they said. That opens the door to personal critique. If their argument is "I'm right because I'm demonstrably perfect", then showing their personal flaws is appropriate. It's not nice. But they opened the door. There's almost no other way to argue it. Also, showing that there is an alterantive plausible explanation for their feelings of absolute excellence is warranted especially if that same thing is influecing their judgement about what it means to have a religious experience. This is no different than anyone on the forum saying, "that wasn't a god, that was just luck"

@F1fan is basically doing the same thing. But theirs is cloaked in the verbage of "critical thinking doesn't do that", but the implication is "but I do and I'm great at it." They do make claims like "that is not wise". Also he has said "if your god existed, then you would behave in the way which is ideal to my religion". By saying this, F1 has opened the door to arguing that they don't know what critical thinking is; they themelves aren't wise so they can't ID it. They don't know what their religion really is, and they don't know what my God is. All of those open the door to arguments which appear to be an ad-hom fallacy.

As an example: if I was debating with a Jew, and they were saying something divisive, and I said Kol Yisrael Chaveirim! And they were like Bull!. And I said Tehillim 133! And said, you're being incoherent. Then it would appropriate for me to say, you don't really know Judaism do you.

Regarding agression:

What you're observing is dominance. Absolute dominance. People don' like it. That is part of my tactic. It's ugly, but it's working. In order to show It Aint's flaws, I'm being very forceful, and it's working. They've been caught flubbing and floundering. And I actually think it's dishonesty. They think I'm being dishonest, so they think its OK to be dishonest. Which is a major flaw. That is flawed thinking, especially if it can be shown they're being either dishonest or they are unable to keep track of what they're saying. Or it there's a contradiction. All of these work in my favor. Also. As long as I maintain a dominant position. There is no way I'm going to get angry and make any of those same mistakes myself. The only mistake I'm making that I can see is... my brain is much much faster than my fingers. Even though I am a ridiculous fast typer. So, there's spelling mistakes and loads of typos. So what.

I am sacrificing my reputation. But I don't care if people think low of me. I literally don't. The only value I might gain from being here is interacting with new people. And if some new person arrives and my reputation reaches them through a back channel. I really don't care. If they are so easily influenced by some random person saying, "put that guy on ignore" so be it. I feel like I have heard all there is that can be said from atheists about the topics I care about. It's just too simple. And the people who show up here, really just seem to want to kick Christianity, for no good reasons at all.

So there's a method to my madness, as they say.

...avoid the actual subject at issue in the thread.

Not at all! I am right on point.

I brought the qualities needed to know that a god exists. They were rejected demanding absolute proof or "I was wasting the OPs time".
In support of my claim, I brought my defintion of a god. The atheists are rejecting it.

Therefore, if I can prove that atheists don't know what a god is. And then show that they lack the qualities to ID one. I have fully supported my claims. My approach is, show them their god. Show them that they cannot ID it even though it should be easy and obvious.

No "outrageous claim" has been made. Why are you manufacturing this?

The outrageous claim is: "I know what is happening with everyone elses spiritual experiences, because I know myself." On questioning, this was not exaggerated. The individual actually thinks their own, probably drug induced, experiences reflect everyone's experience. Not only that there is a god-level knowledge being asserted. And it goes from there. This individual has made claims like this before. They have always been shut down, with the simiple test, "OK, tell me about my spiritual experiences" But when the person fails, they reject it saying, "Of course I'm right, you believe X,Y,Z you must because you are a... and if you say you are experienceing something spiritual it MUST be X,Y,Z, because I am the most perfect thinker". But none of the details match. 0 correspondence. It's all a self-deluded ego trip.

That's what's happened and it's pretty outrageous. And it's not the first time.

Please explain your statement "The atheist though is unaware of their own god claims". I am especially curious since no god claims have been made, and appear to be only in your imagination.

Certainly. It's kind of like a perfect storm. Because of the defintion of a god, anytime a person lifts up an ideal as a role model, or discourages something as a universal flaw, they are claiming that a god exists. Also, there is a special god included in the defintion which prohibits an individual from accepting the definition of gods to evade detection.

It all goes back to the simple general definition of a god, which the atheist rejects, because if it were accepted, then they could not identify as an atheist. It's a self-reinforcing delusion. Evidence in support of the defintion has been given, it's undeniable. A god is anything with the power to create, destroy, and inspire.

Premise 1: The atheist does not know how to define a god.
Conclusion 1: They will not know if they are making a god claim.

Premise 2: The definition of god is a general category and includes many things.
Premise 3: The probability that an atheist will make a god claim increases depending on the number of gods.
Conclusion 2: If the number of gods is infinite it is impossible not to make god claims.

Premise 4: One of the gods included in the general category is pure negation. It has unique properties.
Premise 5: One of the unique properties is that it forces defintions of gods into a narrow band prohibitting it's own detection.

Conclusion 3: Denial of this god is a making a god claim because of the unique properties of this god.
Conclusion 4: All atheists make god claims when they identify as atheist per the defintion of a god.

The quality needed to know that such a god exists per the definition is to understand things which are supra-rational. Meaning, a person needs to be able to undertand the effect without precisely knowing the cause. Understanding does not require direct knowledge. That is supra-rational. And if I listen to the atheist arguments, none of them meet this criteria. That is a contra-postive supporting my claim. If the negation is false, then the affirmation is true.
 
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dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
So "no" to my request to proceed cooperatively? No problema. Adios. Thanks for your time.

You said: "If you could, you could be quoting me and linking, too, but you don't"

I quoted you, I linked. You confirmed you could see it. But you cannot be honest about it.

This defeats your argument that you know what's happening with everyone's spiritual experiences because you know yourself, because.

You cannot be trusted to be honest about what people say or do.

thank you for reaffirming my theism. at least we, theists, are honest.

your claim of moral excellence is a failure too.
 

lukethethird

unknown member
You said: "If you could, you could be quoting me and linking, too, but you don't"

I quoted you, I linked. You confirmed you could see it. But you cannot be honest about it.

This defeats your argument that you know what's happening with everyone's spiritual experiences because you know yourself, because.

You cannot be trusted to be honest about what people say or do.

thank you for reaffirming my theism. at least we, theists, are honest.

your claim of moral excellence is a failure too.
Dude, are you OK?
 

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Dude, are you OK?

Yeah. Thanks. How are you? @It Aint Necessarily So has been defeated yet again. They've been exposed as either being incompetent or being dishonest.

But that's typical for someone who's possessed by a void. Which is evidence that void is a god that exists and is operating in the hearts and minds in atheists. So, good day for me.
 
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