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You Were Inside Heaven, Because Of Your Parents.. You Kicked Out

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
wheres your proof ?
I can read. Satan's not one of the characters in the story.
where's your proof
Heaven's never mentioned in the story -- or in most of the Hebrew texts.
I already talked about it.
Read the text again. No apple.
creation myth... well according to the bible, or let me tell you have you ever read the bible in your life ?
All the time. Got a master's degree in biblical studies. No Satan there. Sorry.
God commanded him but see the result !
The result didn't come from an apple.
whatever the fruit is, or whatever the reason was it's unfair to kick somebody who is innocent like me and you
Humanity isn't innocent. That's what the story is about. Our evolution from innocence to culpability.
What shocked me in this verse of course you're going to dismiss it for sure ! but I really think you need to train yourself to accept that or to reject it entirely instead of trying to repair something unprepared what I mean by that if there's something, is not exist how could you maintain nothing ? nothing changes nothing. Let us think about that story, we have no explanation what did we come here, so you guys conceived an agent to say that is the cause behind everything.
You're not making sense. again.
Humanity tried to cross the line between mortal and Divine. We suffer the consequences, because we're culpable.
You believe in God, and all religions almost support science, so let's experiment that verse ^, go to a place where so many people available there and make a hole in any wall and write a warning note near of it "Do Not Look Through This Hole" see what will happen ? that's what I have for you I am not going to tell you the answer until you find it by yourself, then you'll understand your nature not God's instructions. Because that instruction is absolutely, definitely, without doubt, without hesitation against psychology and against my nature and your nature as human beings.
And when you look in the hole and get your eye poked out, whose fault is it?
 
A) Satan was not the serpent in Genesis. Judging from the book of Job, Satan has feet.

B) Original sin is a Christian theology that has no basis in the Tanakh. Does the phrase, "The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge" sound familiar? The prophets refuted that saying.

C) It's completely possible not to sin. However, not many accomplish it, because society encourages all sorts of misbehavior.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Originally Posted by Camatose Alright, you said they have enough knowledge to choice! and you're wrong. Do you like this world ? I mean of course they don't have any knowledge where's you proof ? if they had knowledge at that time it would be the worst knowledge ever and I can't call it knowledge "stupidity" better. Let's assume they do have a GREAT knowledge, and let me give you a simple example: I'll leave you in the desert or in the forest and I'll leave you alone there with a map to get you out from the desert, as I know you can read maps that's what I know ! in this case I played God's role and you played Adam's role, here's the question will you find the way and IF you found it who guarantees your safety ?
[/quote]
I really don't understand what you are saying.
 
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Camatose

Member
I can read. Satan's not one of the characters in the story.

Heaven's never mentioned in the story -- or in most of the Hebrew texts.

Read the text again. No apple.

All the time. Got a master's degree in biblical studies. No Satan there. Sorry.

The result didn't come from an apple.

Humanity isn't innocent. That's what the story is about. Our evolution from innocence to culpability.

You're not making sense. again.
Humanity tried to cross the line between mortal and Divine. We suffer the consequences, because we're culpable.

And when you look in the hole and get your eye poked out, whose fault is it?
Explain the story for me I could be mistaken.
And when you look in the hole and get your eye poked out, whose fault is it?
Most of them will look trough the hole and that's my scientific proof for this case
 

Camatose

Member
I really don't understand what you are saying.[/quote]
Well, Somebody left you in an empty place, and there are wild animals. You just have a map to get you out from that place. At that time you have your free will to choice, the map is in your hand and all what you need is to take a decision. What will happen ? I'm quite sure you'll die, even if you found your way. You certainly will die because of the wild animals. There's no guarantee of your safety. That's what happened for Adam and Eve and I fed up talking about stupid story like that I feel it is the most unbelievable, imaginary story.
 

Camatose

Member
Humanity isn't innocent. That's what the story is about. Our evolution from innocence to culpability.

You're not making sense. again.
Humanity tried to cross the line between mortal and Divine. We suffer the consequences, because we're culpable.
If you think God is the reason why you here. Then you're not making no sense either and you don't respect the meaning of logic. You blame us for something we didn't really choice it. Free will ?. Because you have a free will you choose to live in that country with these parents..... you had chosen everything I guess that's why you're defending "the free will", even if they have free will this does not make them mistaken or sinners. How could somebody mentally weak judge ? that's what I know and that's what you know for sure. But ! the problem here isn't God. Well, God only an imaginary character, the real problem here is that: You don't want to get out of it, because everything you think about it, fears hit your mind what I meant by that you cannot get out of it because you're afraid to be tortured by God himself. In India there still many people who worship animals in this century ! you have a great mind and you can use it whenever you want to, except RELIGION. Religions is like a monster with a huge claws that's, and those the creator of those religions had developed the roots of fears in everybody's heart to take control. By the way you they don't really threat you like anybody, instead the have certain methods to threat people ! this does not make sense ? I wish you understand me as I understand you.

And what if they did cross the line, I must be completely free of charge. Why God cursed me?, I am not the one who crossed the line ?.
 
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McBell

Unbound
If you think God is the reason why you here. Then you're not making no sense either and you don't respect the meaning of logic. You blame us for something we didn't really choice it. Free will ?. Because you have a free will you choose to live in that country with these parents..... you had chosen everything I guess that's why you're defending "the free will", even if they have free will this does not make them mistaken or sinners. How could somebody mentally weak judge ? that's what I know and that's what you know for sure. But ! the problem here isn't God. Well, God only an imaginary character, the real problem here is that: You don't want to get out of it, because everything you think about it, fears hit your mind what I meant by that you cannot get out of it because you're afraid to be tortured by God himself. In India there still many people who worship animals in this century ! you have a great mind and you can use it whenever you want to, except RELIGION. Religions is like a monster with a huge claws that's, and those the creator of those religions had developed the roots of fears in everybody's heart to take control. By the way you they don't really threat you like anybody, instead the have certain methods to threat people ! this does not make sense ? I wish you understand me as I understand you.

And what if they did cross the line, I must be completely free of charge. Why God cursed me?, I am not the one who crossed the line ?.
Perhaps it is me, but this does not make any sense.
 

Camatose

Member
Perhaps it is me, but this does not make any sense.
Well, I always don't make sense for you. The simplicity of your mind cannot get what I am saying, nonetheless it's not a problem. Whatever I say, whatever I explain does not make any sense for everybody except for you. You're trying to shut the conversation down by saying does not make sense, well, let it be without sense ? what does sense mean for you ? I guess your Bible does not make sense ! if you want to be an atheist please read the bible that's the only way to be an atheist or to get out of Christianity. Does not make sense ! "Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and *****." (1 Samuel 15:3), it makes sense now. . . . "Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." (Psalm 137:9).
 
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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Explain the story for me I could be mistaken.
It's an allegory. Eden is geographically "everywhere," and so represents, not a place, but a state of being. When humanity was innocent, we were "in the garden." When we became culpable -- that is, when we had "eaten of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil" -- we were no longer "in the garden." It's a story of how humanity came to be separated from God, and came to have self-will and sentience. None of God's acts are "punishments." There are, however, consequences to our actions. The serpent isn't "Satan;" it's wisdom. In ancient myth, Wisdom is often portrayed as a serpent, and is often a pariah, hoping to lure humanity away from innocence.
Most of them will look trough the hole and that's my scientific proof for this case
Sooo... "No smoking on these premises" lures one into smoking a grit? I don't get your reasoning here.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Well, Somebody left you in an empty place, and there are wild animals. You just have a map to get you out from that place. At that time you have your free will to choice, the map is in your hand and all what you need is to take a decision. What will happen ? I'm quite sure you'll die, even if you found your way. You certainly will die because of the wild animals. There's no guarantee of your safety. That's what happened for Adam and Eve and I fed up talking about stupid story like that I feel it is the most unbelievable, imaginary story.
That certainly isn't what happened to Adam and Eve. The story is "stupid" only to those who cannot or refuse to understand it. Of course it's imaginary. what did you expect???
 

McBell

Unbound
Well, I always don't make sense for you. The simplicity of your mind cannot get what I am saying, nonetheless it's not a problem. Whatever I say, whatever I explain does not make any sense for everybody except for you. You're trying to shut the conversation down by saying does not make sense, well, let it be without sense ? what does sense mean for you ? I guess your Bible does not make sense ! if you want to be an atheist please read the bible that's the only way to be an atheist or to get out of Christianity. Does not make sense ! "Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and *****." (1 Samuel 15:3), it makes sense now. . . . "Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." (Psalm 137:9).
Ego masturbation at its finest.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
I really don't understand what you are saying.
Well, Somebody left you in an empty place, and there are wild animals. You just have a map to get you out from that place. At that time you have your free will to choice, the map is in your hand and all what you need is to take a decision. What will happen ? I'm quite sure you'll die, even if you found your way. You certainly will die because of the wild animals. There's no guarantee of your safety. That's what happened for Adam and Eve and I fed up talking about stupid story like that I feel it is the most unbelievable, imaginary story.
[/quote]


This still does not make any sense to me and I don't see the connection to the account of Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve were not in an empty place, it was a beautiful garden. The animals were not wild, but tame and friendly. They didn't have a map, they had a loving relationship with their Creator who guided and cared for them in every way.It was when they refused His guidance and trusted their own thoughts and listened to the serpent that things when wrong.
 

Camatose

Member
This still does not make any sense to me and I don't see the connection to the account of Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve were not in an empty place, it was a beautiful garden. The animals were not wild, but tame and friendly. They didn't have a map, they had a loving relationship with their Creator who guided and cared for them in every way.It was when they refused His guidance and trusted their own thoughts and listened to the serpent that things when wrong.[/quote]
it was a beautiful garden
any proof ?
The animals were not wild, but tame and friendly
proof ?
They didn't have a map, they had a loving relationship with their Creator who guided and cared for them in every way.It was when they refused His guidance and trusted their own thoughts and listened to the serpent that things when wrong
proof ?

they had a loving relationship with their Creator who guided and cared for them in every way.It was when they refused His guidance and trusted their own thoughts and listened to the serpent that things when wrong

I bit they creator doesn't seem to care about them. Think about it, they're many people who died because of natural disasters. Children, women, and men. You never seen a child died because of tsunami ?, what kind of God is that ? did he really care about you ? he kept you here to strive and left you alone. Your mother would be charged by police if she left you alone in the street ( suppose you're a child), and they'll call her child abusive. But how about the abusive God ? who abused his children ? I don't know what to say. If he's the creator of every creator and if he's the only lord, then I had question here, who created evil ? who created Satan ? who created suffering and death ? isn't God ?. If he did create those things, then why should I follow someone who did so many evil in one side and in the other side he created good works just for his sake. Let me ask you this question: have you ever read the history of dictatorships in the world ? there were bad rules, aggressive, and think about themselves only, do they have achievement for their countries ? Yes, they do but comparing their achievement with their crimes and evil, their crime and evil will cover up their achievement by the time, good cannot be bad and bad cannot be good, if so there would be no harmony in our life. Think about what God have done through out the history, it's only religion's evil, Imagine the world without religions, without races, without countries ? just imagine. I hope this makes sense.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
any proof ?
Poor rebuff. Read the texts.
proof ?
They didn't have a map, they had a loving relationship with their Creator who guided and cared for them in every way.It was when they refused His guidance and trusted their own thoughts and listened to the serpent that things when wrong
proof ?
See above.

To find out if the witch is wicked in Hansel and Gretel, all you have to do is read the story. Or do you need further proof that the witch was wicked in that story? It's just such a poor attempt at rebuff.
I bit they creator doesn't seem to care about them. Think about it, they're many people who died because of natural disasters. Children, women, and men. You never seen a child died because of tsunami ?, what kind of God is that ? did he really care about you ? he kept you here to strive and left you alone. Your mother would be charged by police if she left you alone in the street ( suppose you're a child), and they'll call her child abusive. But how about the abusive God ? who abused his children ? I don't know what to say. If he's the creator of every creator and if he's the only lord, then I had question here, who created evil ? who created Satan ? who created suffering and death ? isn't God ?. If he did create those things, then why should I follow someone who did so many evil in one side and in the other side he created good works just for his sake. Let me ask you this question: have you ever read the history of dictatorships in the world ? there were bad rules, aggressive, and think about themselves only, do they have achievement for their countries ? Yes, they do but comparing their achievement with their crimes and evil, their crime and evil will cover up their achievement by the time, good cannot be bad and bad cannot be good, if so there would be no harmony in our life. Think about what God have done through out the history, it's only religion's evil, Imagine the world without religions, without races, without countries ? just imagine. I hope this makes sense.
Death =/= "I don't care."
 

Camatose

Member
Poor rebuff. Read the texts.

See above.

To find out if the witch is wicked in Hansel and Gretel, all you have to do is read the story. Or do you need further proof that the witch was wicked in that story? It's just such a poor attempt at rebuff.

Death =/= "I don't care."
Why should you care ? The irrational mind creates the irrational thoughts and vice versa
 

InChrist

Free4ever
I bit they creator doesn't seem to care about them. Think about it, they're many people who died because of natural disasters. Children, women, and men. You never seen a child died because of tsunami ?, what kind of God is that ? did he really care about you ? he kept you here to strive and left you alone. Your mother would be charged by police if she left you alone in the street ( suppose you're a child), and they'll call her child abusive. But how about the abusive God ? who abused his children ? I don't know what to say. If he's the creator of every creator and if he's the only lord, then I had question here, who created evil ? who created Satan ? who created suffering and death ? isn't God ?. If he did create those things, then why should I follow someone who did so many evil in one side and in the other side he created good works just for his sake. Let me ask you this question: have you ever read the history of dictatorships in the world ? there were bad rules, aggressive, and think about themselves only, do they have achievement for their countries ? Yes, they do but comparing their achievement with their crimes and evil, their crime and evil will cover up their achievement by the time, good cannot be bad and bad cannot be good, if so there would be no harmony in our life. Think about what God have done through out the history, it's only religion's evil, Imagine the world without religions, without races, without countries ? just imagine. I hope this makes sense.

It sounds like the evils you have listed were done by people, not God. It is true He created people and angelic beings in the first place and gave them a will to choose, but I guess you would prefer that God did no creating of anyone then we wouldn't even be hear to care or discuss this.
 
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