You'll go to hell if you disobey my God

[Pudding]

And yet, the Bible makes no reference to a place of conscious eternal torment after death as a punishment for disobedience. In fact there is no "heaven or hell" as opposite destination ever mentioned in the scriptures.

The Bible says that all the dead, both "righteous and unrighteous" "sleep in death". When the rule of God's kingdom "comes" both the righteous and unrighteous are called out of their graves. (John 5:28, 29) How can Jesus call these ones out of their graves unless they are all still in them? They haven't gone anywhere...they are just asleep, like Lazarus was before Jesus raised him up. (John 11:11-14) If Lazarus had gone to heaven, then why would Jesus bring him back to this life, only to get sick or old and die again? If Lazarus had gone to a better place, then his resurrection was a curse, not a blessing.

So the concept of hell in Christianity is misguidance.

The Creator is God, whether we accept him as such or not. He has authority over life and death for his creatures, whether they even believe in him or not. As free willed beings we are given choices.
Being informed of those choices, we make decisions of our own free will. If we understand the consequences of our choices but make the wrong ones because we don't believe they apply to us, can we rightly complain because we failed to believe and obey? God forces no one to do anything against their will, so would you rather that he did?

I understand that you believe your God is the Creator, but my situation is i've no reason to believe in any religion's Creator God. Of course, my choice is irrelevant to your choice, each to their own i guess.

 

[Pudding]

So it seems mainly Christianity and Islam have hells as you describe. Yet I've known a lot of Christians who've argued that Hell is not biblical. That being the case, where did the concept come from?

Thanks for sharing the information.

forgotten possibility....

dis obey...be forgiven....and then disciplined to a better spiritual frame of mind.

Concept:
Obey...be forgiven...go to heaven.
Disobey...no forgiven...go to hell.

If one had the arrogance of telling someone they will go to hell, then that person really to me lives in fear, and is only projecting their fear onto others, hoping that others will join their sick belief system, the more numbers there are, the more these people feel securer.

Maybe they're being misguidance.

In my religion, 'Follow your own Gods, and do that assiduously. It will lead to happiness in your life. I am sure that what they say is wise.'
It is so different from the Abrahamic religions.

"Sreyan sva-dharmo vigunah, para-dharmat svanushthitat;
sva-dharme nidhanam sreyah, para-dharmo bhayavahah." BhagawadGita 3.35

Rough translation: It is far better to discharge one's prescribed duties, even though faultily, than another's duties perfectly. Destruction in the course of performing one's own duty is better than engaging in another's duties, for to follow another's path is dangerous.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[Pudding]

What worries me is what if one of those turn out to be true?

According to some estimates, there are roughly 4,200 religions in the world.
List of religions and spiritual traditions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Assume that only one from those is true. What if one of those turns out to be true?
The chance of being choosing the right religion is 1/4200, about 0.0002% .

If no religion is true, the chance is 0% .

Anyways, there is also the following:
Religion A: If you obey my God, you'll go to heaven forever.
Religion B: If you obey my God, you'll receive serious rewards from my God.
Religion C: If you obey my God, you'll be happy forever.
Religion D: If you obey my God, you'll be in peace for eternity.
Religion E: If you obey my God, you'll be appreciate it forever.
Religion F: If you obey my God, you'll be loved by my God for eternity.

Half glass full

But the reward will only be given after the person die, and when the person die, no any other alive human will know whether the dead person receive reward or not...

About the Near Death Experience, it still is subjective and personal evidence, it's not objective evidence.

Should anyone obey any religion's God just for the hope of receiving good reward in afterlife, given this reward's accountability can't be verify at all?

But what I believe in is that following a specific religion for believing it is the truth and good for oneself and for others is more important than doing so out of fear or love for what would come out of it, not that the latter is not a good reason for some people of course. If that level is reached, I believe it is the ultimate possible case scenario.

A religion is good/truthful for a person, but that religion is not guarantee to good/truthful for another person. The problem is many believer insist to imposes their beliefs to non-believer and demand non-believer must obey their religion's moral/law, otherwise non-believer will be condemn.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Yup, that's one way to put it

 

[JayJayDee]

Sorry, incorrect. You seem to have forgotten the Vedas and Upanishads which clearly predate all other faiths outside of ancient pagan rites. And what makes you think Babylon was false? It is, after all, the springboard of your own faith along with the aforementioned Hindu sacred texts. You might want to believe such notions but that doesn't make them true.

Well it occurs to me that God's worshippers are older than their own holy writings or anyone else's. The nation of Israel were not the first worshippers of Yahweh. Who do we imagine Adam's God to be? Do any humans go back further than him? All who descended from Adam except Noah and his family perished in the flood.
Men like Job and Abraham worshipped the true God and preceded the formation of the Jewish nation.

All who lived after the flood descended from Noah and his sons. No man-made, devil inspired false religion existed until after the flood. Babylon was the beginning of man's rebellion under the leadership of Nimrod...Noah's great grandson. He was the one responsible for leading humans astray again. Sin was not eliminated by the flood.

It is NOT the springboard of my own faith because Noah and the men of old who remained faithful to their God Yahweh did not have their language confused at the Tower of Babel and therefore reminded united with one tongue and one true form of worship...the original language of Adam. Job is one such man of faith. Abraham is another. It is Abraham's descendants who later became the nation of Israel.

 

[Astravalon]

Well it occurs to me that God's worshippers are older than their own holy writings or anyone else's. The nation of Israel were not the first worshippers of Yahewh. Who do we imagine Adam's God to be? Do any humans go back further than him? All who descended from Adam except Noah and his family perished in the flood.
Men like Job and Abraham worshipped the true God and preceded the formation of the Jewish nation.

All who lived after the flood descended from Noah and his sons. No man-made, devil inspired false religion existed until after the flood. Babylon was the beginning of man's rebellion under the leadership of Nimrod...Noah's great grandson. He was the one responsible for leading humans astray again. Sin was not eliminated by the flood.

It is NOT the springboard of my own faith because Noah and the men of old who remained faithful to their God Yahewh did not have their language confused at the Tower of Babel and therefore reminded united with one tongue and one true form of worship...the original language of Adam. Job is one such man of faith. Abraham is another. It is Abraham's descendants who later became the nation of Israel.

Right, but all that is according to one particular religion.
The reality might be totally different.

-

 

[Thief]

So disobedience is a grace?

I suspect heaven and hell are very close to each other.

What you might see are some that are able and willing to go along with the scheme of things.
and the miserable standbys watching the fun.

You would be miserable watching everyone else having fun.
but if you don't have the discipline for Something Greater......how then to be granted better things?

It is written.....
If you can't be trusted with the least of things...how then anything greater?

 

[Wu Wei]

Anybody ever read, or heard, Don Juan in Hell, Man and Superman by George Bernard Shaw
DON JUAN in Hell -- by George Bernard Shaw

It is a rather interesting perspective on the topic

 

[Thief]

an excellent example of this for that!.....

 

[Aupmanyav]

Right, but all that is according to one particular religion.
The reality might be totally different.
-

What you wrote is insignificant before Jay Jay Dee's font size. He wins.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Who do we imagine Adam's God to be? Do any humans go back further than him? All who descended from Adam except Noah and his family perished in the flood.

Adam story is reported to be 6,000 years old.Of course there were humans before him. It will be interesting to know if the Neanderthals or Denisovans worshiped a God and if they did, whom?.

Homo Heidelbergensis, Skeleton and reconstruction of the La Ferrassie 1 Neanderthal man, Denisovan

 

[Pudding]

So disobedience is a grace?

Disobedience is ungraceful?

Religion A: Obey my true God forever.
Non-believer X: I don't believe in your God, so why should i obey your God? I won't obey your God.

Religion B: Obey my true God forever.
Non-believer X: I don't believe in your God, so why should i obey your God? I won't obey your God.

Religion C: Obey my true God forever.
Non-believer X: I don't believe in your God, so why should i obey your God? I won't obey your God.

Disobedience is ungraceful?

Why should non-believer obey any religion's God if they don't believe in that religion's God?
Or should they fake themself to obey the religion's God whose they don't believe in, and then the fake obedience and fake beliefs will be consider as graceful?

I suspect heaven and hell are very close to each other.

What you might see are some that are able and willing to go along with the scheme of things.
and the miserable standbys watching the fun.

You would be miserable watching everyone else having fun.
but if you don't have the discipline for Something Greater......how then to be granted better things?

It is written.....
If you can't be trusted with the least of things...how then anything greater?

Your statements is a little too abstract for me to understand, i can't get your meaning.

 

[JayJayDee]

What you wrote is insignificant before Jay Jay Dee's font size. He wins.

Jay's font size is for JoStories who has a visual impairment. I wasn't yelling and neither was Jo.

 

[JayJayDee]

Adam story is reported to be 6,000 years old.Of course there were humans before him. It will be interesting to know if the Neanderthals or Denisovans worshiped a God and if they did, whom?.

Homo Heidelbergensis, Skeleton and reconstruction of the La Ferrassie 1 Neanderthal man, Denisovan

Thank you so much for the "photographs" of the "real" people Of course we know that "Neanderthals" looked like this....imagination is a wonderful thing, especially when you can add to the picture with computer aided graphics these days. All we had before was two dimentional drawings (more imagination) from the minds of the godless in promoting their theory.

But they didn't use to look like this did they? They are very different from the way they were portrayed previously. The stooped ape-like creature has now given way to the more fully erect human. I wonder why?

Primitive people still exist even in this scientific age, so if aliens landed in the jungles of the Amazon and discovered primitive people there, would they have to assume that all of earth's inhabitants were like the ones they just discovered?

 

[Popcorn]

The story of Adam is interesting because it could be about the first individual person or it could be about the first civilization, or both, and I think that is something people struggle with trying to understand the Bible. It's never about just one thing at a time.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Jay's font size is for JoStories who has a visual impairment. I wasn't yelling and neither was Jo.

Oh, I did not know about that. I am sorry.

 

[Aupmanyav]

But they didn't use to look like this did they? They are very different from the way they were portrayed previously. The stooped ape-like creature has now given way to the more fully erect human. I wonder why?

Primitive people still exist even in this scientific age, so if aliens landed in the jungles of the Amazon and discovered primitive people there, would they have to assume that all of earth's inhabitants were like the ones they just discovered?

These projections are made very scientifically and meticuluously. No, the Neanderthals and Denisovans did not stoop. They were fully Homo sapien. The Brazilian, Indian (Andamanese), and Australian aboriginals do not stoop.

 

[JoStories]

Well it occurs to me that God's worshippers are older than their own holy writings or anyone else's. The nation of Israel were not the first worshippers of Yahewh. Who do we imagine Adam's God to be? Do any humans go back further than him? All who descended from Adam except Noah and his family perished in the flood.
Men like Job and Abraham worshipped the true God and preceded the formation of the Jewish nation.

All who lived after the flood descended from Noah and his sons. No man-made, devil inspired false religion existed until after the flood. Babylon was the beginning of man's rebellion under the leadership of Nimrod...Noah's great grandson. He was the one responsible for leading humans astray again. Sin was not eliminated by the flood.

It is NOT the springboard of my own faith because Noah and the men of old who remained faithful to their God Yahewh did not have their language confused at the Tower of Babel and therefore reminded united with one tongue and one true form of worship...the original language of Adam. Job is one such man of faith. Abraham is another. It is Abraham's descendants who later became the nation of Israel.

I'm afraid you're still wrong. Have you read the epic of Gilgamesh? There is a 'great flood' contained in at story. Noah and your flood story was taken from that. All of the OT was taken from older myths and stories. As a serious student of theology, and my PhD is pending therein, I've studied that for years. I know for absolute fact that you're incorrect. I don't mean to disrespect you here but if you studied the foundation of all faiths, you'd learn that your faith is far from the first and very little contained in your bible is original.

 

[JoStories]

Jay's font size is for JoStories who has a visual impairment. I wasn't yelling and neither was Jo.

Thank you Jay, that was very kind.

 

[JayJayDee]

I'm afraid you're still wrong. Have you read the epic of Gilgamesh? There is a 'great flood' contained in at story. Noah and your flood story was taken from that. All of the OT was taken from older myths and stories. As a serious student of theology, and my PhD is pending therein, I've studied that for years. I know for absolute fact that you're incorrect. I don't mean to disrespect you here but if you studied the foundation of all faiths, you'd learn that your faith is far from the first and very little contained in your bible is original.

I actually believe that it's the other way around. Moses wrote Genesis well after the events. He takes us back to the creation of the universe and on through centuries of Biblical history. There is much that he records that took place long before he existed. The stories pre-date the Bible so the events took place long before they were committed to writing or copied by Moses and given to a nation to whom God chose to reveal them.

According to this source......

"From the early days of the comparative study of these two flood accounts, it has been generally agreed that there is an obvious relationship. The widespread nature of flood traditions throughout the entire human race is excellent evidence for the existence of a great flood from a legal/historical point of view. Dating of the oldest fragments of the Gilgamesh account originally indicated that it was older than the assumed dating of Genesis. However, the probability exists that the Biblical account had been preserved either as an oral tradition, or in written form handed down from Noah, through the patriarchs and eventually to Moses, thereby making it actually older than the Sumerian accounts which were restatements (with alterations) to the original.

A popular theory, proposed by liberal "scholars," said that the Hebrews "borrowed" from the Babylonians, but no conclusive proof has ever been offered. The differences, including religious, ethical, and sheer quantity of details, make it unlikely that the Biblical account was dependent on any extant source from the Sumerian traditions. This still does not stop these liberal and secular scholars from advocating such a theory. The most accepted theory among evangelicals is that both have one common source, predating all the Sumerian forms. The divine inspiration of the Bible would demand that the Genesis account is the correct version. Indeed the Hebrews were known for handing down their records and tradition. The Book of Genesis is viewed for the most part as an historical work, even by many liberal scholars, while the Epic of Gilgamesh is viewed as mythological. The One-source Theory must, therefore, lead back to the historical event of the Flood and Noah's Ark. To those who believe in the inspiration and infallibility of the Bible, it should not be a surprise that God would preserve the true account of the Flood in the traditions of His people. The Genesis account was kept pure and accurate throughout the centuries by the providence of God until it was finally compiled, edited, and written down by Moses. The Epic of Gilgamesh, then, contains the corrupted account as preserved and embellished by peoples who did not follow the God of the Hebrews."

The Flood of Noah and the Flood of Gilgamesh | The Institute for Creation Research

This seems reasonable to me.