YOUR Belief

[Muffled]

Fight it! Root it out! Crush it! Destroy its nest!

Hoo-wee!!! two words, "de" and "caf" from now on. .

I believe one could not then debate anything. Does an atheist say there is no God then I am offended. If a Muslim says I worship three gods then I am offended. And the list goes on and on and on.

 

[Jainarayan]

I believe I have no idea what offends people. A person calls me crazy and I am not offended but I suppose I would be if I were actually crazy. So perhaps that is it, that one wants to cherish a belief and the truth becomes inconvenient to that end.

I am sure you can read what he said to the Pharisees.

If you can't see that calling other people's gods "dead gods" is offensive, then I just don't know what to say.

 

[Muffled]

Sure Muffled, just give me a little bit more time!

Gladly but I only have 13 years left on my life expectancy so don't take too long, lol.

 

[Muffled]

If you can't see that calling other people's gods "dead gods" is offensive, then I just don't know what to say.

If one believes in dead gods I see no problem. If one believes the gods are not dead prove it.

I have to agree that I can be pretty clueless at times but I manage when people explain things to me. I believe you should explain it unless it is just some emotional twinge or psycholigical reflex but you could say it is that and no expalnation would work or be necessary.

 

[Jainarayan]

If one believes in dead gods I see no problem. If one believes the gods are not dead prove it.

And you did it again!

The burden of proof is on you to prove they are dead, since you made the claim. I have no obligation to prove to you or anyone else my gods are real, because they are my belief system, as your god is your belief system.

 

[Muffled]

And you did it again!

The burden of proof is on you to prove they are dead, since you made the claim. I have no obligation to prove to you or anyone else my gods are real, because they are my belief system, as your god is your belief system.

I believe you should try to define "it" so I can avoid it.

I don't believe I can prove they are dead.

I believe my reasoning is that gods that are alive will do things and there are no reports of gods doing anything. In fact there haven't been any reports in CE only myths of events in BCE. One could argue that they went back to the Pliades but there is no myth saying they did. Since eternal life doesn't mean invulnerability it is possible they died in battle. That happened with the Titans didn't it?

I beleive I am pleased that you have a belief system but I believe one should have reasons to believe. I believe I do.

I believe that you believe they are real but there is no solid evidence that they are since myth may or may not be true. I tend to believe they were real also but they were just gods after all.

 

[aoji]

I believe one should have reasons to believe.

The problem is that no matter what the other believes, if it runs counter to your logic then they can't be right in believing as they do. The counter to your reasoning is if their reasoning is based on existential experience. They will then tell you that they do not believe, they "know". You cannot possibly have a offence argument to that. Since you have not experienced what they have experienced then it will seem illogical, irrational and unreasonable to you. If they say that they "saw something" then your logical reaction is to blame their brain chemistry, that they were hallucinating. Here's the thing - hallucinations are real to the person experiencing them, just as a child who cries after having a nightmare cannot tell the difference between nightmare and reality. You also probably experienced the same thing - where upon waking you can't tell the difference between where reality starts and the dream ends. Both perceptions exist within the mind as real. If the mind can be fooled by illusion why can't it be fooled by reality? With greater awareness comes seeing what others don't see. For example, the old saying "you can't con a con".

We all insist upon Logic and Reason as being Acme and then do stupid things - like getting drunk, doing drugs, falling in love, or getting angry. Why? A driver cuts you off, you get angry and logic flies out the window. We are emotional animals. To say that we are wholly rational is disingenuous.

 

[Sundance]

To bring this thread back around to its original topic, as of yesterday, I'm of the Rastafari faith.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I don't believe I can prove they are dead.

Well that rather ends your argument there then.

 

[Thief]

The problem is that no matter what the other believes, if it runs counter to your logic then they can't be right in believing as they do. The counter to your reasoning is if their reasoning is based on existential experience. They will then tell you that they do not believe, they "know". You cannot possibly have a offence argument to that. Since you have not experienced what they have experienced then it will seem illogical, irrational and unreasonable to you. If they say that they "saw something" then your logical reaction is to blame their brain chemistry, that they were hallucinating. Here's the thing - hallucinations are real to the person experiencing them, just as a child who cries after having a nightmare cannot tell the difference between nightmare and reality. You also probably experienced the same thing - where upon waking you can't tell the difference between where reality starts and the dream ends. Both perceptions exist within the mind as real. If the mind can be fooled by illusion why can't it be fooled by reality? With greater awareness comes seeing what others don't see. For example, the old saying "you can't con a con".

We all insist upon Logic and Reason as being Acme and then do stupid things - like getting drunk, doing drugs, falling in love, or getting angry. Why? A driver cuts you off, you get angry and logic flies out the window. We are emotional animals. To say that we are wholly rational is disingenuous.

You leave Man with his heart in the lead.
I don't believe that.

an unbridled heart is fickle.

you would have that condition?

 

[Muffled]

Well that rather ends your argument there then.

I believe I can't prove they ever lived either. The argument is that a being with eternal life would still be around. That only leaves two possiblities 1. They died 2. They left earth. There is no evidence to support either case but we do know from the Battle of the Titans that gods can be killed and given the warlike nature of man it would seem like the most likely choice. If one accepts that they had been around for at least 7500 years without leaving then it would seem bizarre for them to just up and leave. (After all they had it pretty cushy here except for the lack of accomodations outside the sanctuary.)

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I believe I can't prove they ever lived either.

Which is irrelevant as that wasn't the claim you made. If I for whatever reason couldn't argue or prove bananas were fruits I couldn't then deflect by claiming 'I also can't prove that bananas aren't yellow'.

The argument is that a being with eternal life would still be around.

Strawman; that is not the argument being made. Not even Norse Pagans believe their gods have existed eternally (if any Heathens do then I invite them to correct me).

That only leaves two possiblities 1. They died 2. They left earth.

Since the above is not the situation but is in fact a false argument, I would say it doesn't leave any possibilities.

There is no evidence to support either case but we do know from the Battle of the Titans that gods can be killed and given the warlike nature of man it would seem like the most likely choice.

So you're going to quote Greek stories as proof of what happened to Germanic gods and what Heathens believed? You're new to this whole Pagan thing, aren't you?

If one accepts that they had been around for at least 7500 years without leaving then it would seem bizarre for them to just up and leave. (After all they had it pretty cushy here except for the lack of accomodations outside the sanctuary.)

That's begging the question. You're assuming they've left at all - the experience of others who have tried to contact them would speak to the contrary unless you believe those others are being dishonest.

 

[Milton Platt]

Okay, some of you might have seen my last thread, which came out wrong. It wasn't really intended to be against Christianity. Okay, so here is my new thread. This isn't a debate, but I want to see y'alls religion, and who you worship. I am a Hellenic Pagan that worships Ares and Artemis.

Atheist all the way....but empirical evidence will change my mind....

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Okay, some of you might have seen my last thread, which came out wrong. It wasn't really intended to be against Christianity. Okay, so here is my new thread. This isn't a debate, but I want to see y'alls religion, and who you worship. I am a Hellenic Pagan that worships Ares and Artemis.

Why do you ask? You seem to have a frivolous attitude toward philosophy, in pursuit of soft things. What other religion can there be than the pursuit of Truth--which is what they all claim to be.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Atheist, with a fairly solid interest and sympathy in Communist philosophy, mixed in with some humanism and prone to nihilism.

IOW, 'bout as far from the Truth as you can get.

 

[Paranoid Android]

Okay, some of you might have seen my last thread, which came out wrong. It wasn't really intended to be against Christianity. Okay, so here is my new thread. This isn't a debate, but I want to see y'alls religion, and who you worship. I am a Hellenic Pagan that worships Ares and Artemis.

I am a Dementheologist. I worship the God of Adam and Eve, Jacob, Moses, e.t.c . I worship the Most High God.

 

[Muffled]

Which is irrelevant as that wasn't the claim you made. If I for whatever reason couldn't argue or prove bananas were fruits I couldn't then deflect by claiming 'I also can't prove that bananas aren't yellow'.

I believe your simile does not work. I believe it is germaine to examine whether a person ever lived because a person can't die unless they have lived. In either case there is no evidence, only myth and the myths don't tell what happened to the gods.

Strawman; that is not the argument being made. Not even Norse Pagans believe their gods have existed eternally (if any Heathens do then I invite them to correct me).

I beleive the evidence is scant. The gods are Caucasians and Caucacians go back to 10,000 BC but the genealogical line only goes back to 2500 BC. The inference is that the gods were there in the beginning and still begetting children 7500 years later.

Since the above is not the situation but is in fact a false argument, I would say it doesn't leave any possibilities.

So are you saying that the gods never existed?

So you're going to quote Greek stories as proof of what happened to Germanic gods and what Heathens believed? You're new to this whole Pagan thing, aren't you?

Do you mean by new that I don't know everything? I believe that is so. I believe It is true that the myths are different but that does not mean that they did not have a common origen. Both the Greeks and the Norse are Caucasians.

That's begging the question. You're assuming they've left at all - the experience of others who have tried to contact them would speak to the contrary unless you believe those others are being dishonest.

I beleive I assume nothing. Trying does not mean succeeding. Can someone show me a picture of a living god and not simply an artistic representation?

 

[Muffled]

Why do you ask? You seem to have a frivolous attitude toward philosophy, in pursuit of soft things. What other religion can there be than the pursuit of Truth--which is what they all claim to be.

I don't believe that is the case with Christianity. Since Jesus claims to be the truth and we have Jesus then we alrady have the truth and have no reason to pursue it.

 

[Muffled]

Atheist all the way....but empirical evidence will change my mind....

I beleive by the time you get it, it will be too late to do you any good.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm a Latin-Rite Catholic. I worship the Holy Trinity. I'm also an animist who believes that everything is alive and has its own spirit or lifeforce (planets, stars, etc.) and that plants, animals, etc. have their own souls. As for other gods, like indigenous gods, I believe those are most likely nature spirits, deified aspects of life and such so I don't think they're demons or non-existent, necessarily.