Your definition for "atheist/theist" and its subcategories

[psychoslice]

Is a proven mathematical reality your own understanding?

It becomes my understanding because its proven to exist, god is not part of my understanding because he doesn't exist, or hasn't been proven to exist, its not that hard is it ?.

 

[Pudding]

You said that he is absent the belief that at least one god exists. You then said he does not believe that gods e,f,g do not exist. So, if he has a conception of god, but cannot evaluate that conception because of some lack of knowledge then he is an agnostic. You are saying that Jack has a conception of god. You are saying that Jack is absent belief in gods existence or non-existence existence, despite having a belief in the non existence of specific gods. We call this agnostic because to jack, cannot evaluate the proposition because he lacks some form of knowledge to evaluate the proposition but recognizes the proposition exists. To him the proposition is unknown or unknowable. You are needlessly contemplating things.


Contrast jack with myself, even without knowing what gods e,f and G are, I believe they do not exist as gods. Either they simply have no basis in reality or they exist in reality but are not gods. Because I can evaluate the proposition I am not an agnostic. I am simply an atheist. Now the term agnostic has also been distorted. So if you were to press an ask whether or not I know, that no god exists I would say no, I do not claim 100% certainty. That is: I lay no claim that my belief is a justified, true, belief. However, if we are talking about belief without rising to the level of a justified true belief then I make the claim no god exists.

Thanks for the conversation.

 

[1137]

Why in the world do you have so many categories?

 

[1137]

Atheist: essentially "no gods"

Agnostic atheist: Believes "no gods" is more likely than "one or more gods"

Gnostic atheist: "knows" (on fideistic faith) that there are no gods


Theist: essentially "god(s)"

Agnostic theist: Believes "one or more god" is more likely than "no gods"

Gnostic theist: "Knows" (through apparently mystical means) that there is "one or more god"


Agnostic: is entirely uncertain, does not believe knowledge on the topic is possible.

 

[Curious George]

Thanks for the conversation.

Your welcome.

Cheers

 

[Willamena]

It becomes my understanding because its proven to exist, god is not part of my understanding because he doesn't exist, or hasn't been proven to exist, its not that hard is it ?.

Not hard, just off-topic.

 

[psychoslice]

Not hard, just off-topic.

Some times we have to go off topic, don't be so stringent.

 

[Willamena]

Some times we have to go off topic, don't be so stringent.

You said, "Now understanding something that means something to you is your own understanding..." Is 2+2=4 your own understanding?

 

[psychoslice]

You said, "Now understanding something that means something to you is your own understanding..." Is 2+2=4 your own understanding?

But its a known understanding with much proof, you don't seem to know the difference ?.

 

[Willamena]

But its a known understanding with much proof, you don't seem to know the difference ?.

so? It's understanding.

 

[psychoslice]

so? It's understanding.

Are we on the same page here, you are talking about god ?.

 

[Curious George]

Are we on the same page here, you are talking about god ?.

I think your talking about facts.

 

[psychoslice]

I think your talking about facts.

Yes I was, and that is why I don't see beliefs such as god as fact, it goes without say.

 

[Pudding]

 

[Willamena]

Are we on the same page here, you are talking about god ?.

Understanding is the same, regardless of what is understood.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

The problem with labels is that most people misunderstand their function. They're supposed to help describe reality, not create it. Although, I suspect many people utilize labels with the express purpose of trying to push their version of reality via restricted semantical usage - whether they're aware this is what they're doing or not. It's a weakness common to the species.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Atheist:
Agnostic atheist:
Gnostic atheist:
Implicit atheist:
Explicit atheist:

Weak atheist:
Agnostic weak atheist:

Strong atheist:
Agnostic strong atheist:
Gnostic strong atheist:

Theist:
Agnostic theist:
Gnostic theist:


My defintion is in post #2.

Atheist: a person who believes in naturalistic mechanisms creating the universe and life in it (but prefers to frame this as a disbelief of the alternative)

Theist: a person who is skeptical of naturalistic mechanisms creating the universe and life, but is willing and able to stand behind their own beliefs on their own merits

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Atheist: a person who believes in naturalistic mechanisms creating the universe and life in it (but prefers to frame this as a disbelief of the alternative)

Theist: a person who is skeptical of naturalistic mechanisms creating the universe and life, but is willing and able to stand behind their own beliefs on their own merits

Not all atheists are naturalists (a/theism is about gods, not natural vs supernatural.)
Not all theists aren't naturalists (not all gods are creative gods, or were involved specifically in the creation of life or the universe.)

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Not all atheists are naturalists (a/theism is about gods, not natural vs supernatural.)
Not all theists aren't naturalists (not all gods are creative gods, or were involved specifically in the creation of life or the universe.)

I do take your point there.

I find more atheists beginning to entertain the idea of 'alien' creators of the universe and/or life, but the differences between this sort of ID and 'God' can get pretty subtle

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I do take your point there.

I find more atheists beginning to entertain the idea of 'alien' creators of the universe and/or life, but the differences between this sort of ID and 'God' can get pretty subtle

Well, alien creators of life would still be naturalism, because I don't know of anyone who subscribes to alien astronaut thinking they're non-physical, supernatural beings. But material beings with their own naturalistic development. I'm more talking about atheists who still believe in souls, supernatural forces, non-dualistic (created and creator are the same) views. I'm not one of their rank, but they are out there.
Similarly theists who believe gods existed before humans but not life, or theists who believe in a universal creation but not a creation of life, even some who believe the gods exist but were created by human psyche. There's a lot of variables, and variety, which is why a truly all-encompassing small list of labels is so difficult to make.