Akivah
Well-Known Member
From the actions of its adherents, the only peace that Islam supports is the 'peace of the grave'.
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Your opinion please about Islam.
- Thread starter jeager106
- Start date
From the actions of its adherents, the only peace that Islam supports is the 'peace of the grave'.
What a HORRIBLE post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Horrible in the TRUTH of that post.
I'm so sorry to admit.
2.1 BILLION Muslims
Be comforted in the fact that only 15 % advocate and or take part in violent jihad.
What is 15% of 2.1 BILLION anyway???????????????
Aštra’el
Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
These feelings are born of a deep reverence for human Nature. I see beauty in Destruction and war just as I see beauty in Creation and peace.
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In a journal found on him after he was captured, Ahmad Rahami, the 28-year-old suspected bomber, had wrote about his hopes for martyrdom and wrote that God willing, “the sounds of the bombs will be heard in the streets,”
"God willing"?
Latest bombing attack in the U.S.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...s-of-mass-destruction/?utm_term=.c820ac5686af
There WILL be much more of this right here in the U.S.
"God willing"?
Latest bombing attack in the U.S.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...s-of-mass-destruction/?utm_term=.c820ac5686af
There WILL be much more of this right here in the U.S.
Yeah. O.K.
The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem formed an alliance with Hitler because he making promises that he'd help them overthrow British imperial rule. The Nazis did that throughout British realms, including India, where they had the support of many Indian Hindu Nazi sympathizers. It was really a strategic thing, to meddle with and disrupt British interests.
I think Islam is a beautiful religion in many respects and have considered converting to it before. I strongly admire its mystical traditions and simplicity.
I would be totally for this.
Slash our offensive weapons, keep the defensive, and use the fundage freed up to help support humanitarian efforts around the globe.
Stop being the Great Satan and become the Great Santa.
We could be the greatest force for peace and prosperity on the planet, but instead we are one of the top makers of war.
Tom
Mickdrew
Member
Oh my, of course just mentioning this topic sets the forum on fire xD
For me, Islam is like every other Abrahamic religion to some extent. The Quran and Hadith were put together many centuries ago by committee after the initial events. There are some noble and moral passages, but it's also a product of its time - a time of war. So there are a lot of violent and immoral passages too which contradict each other (again, a sign that it was drawn up by committee).
There's nothing wrong with any of this - like I said, it's just like other Abrahamic religions.
The problem is when people identify with their religion too much. It happens all the time with Christians too. You'll have fundamentalists in America or where ever who push junk science on children and spread hatred for groups of people they disagree with or have different sexual orientation - all because they associate themselves too much with their religion, and take the books too seriously.
And that's the problem with Islam; it demands too much allegiance. Islam is not simply a religion, it promotes itself as a way of life. It's not as simple as a belief system, it guides you on what to wear, what to eat, how to act and (maybe most importantly) how to think.
You can't demand such loyalty around such outdated and contradicting Holy Books without problems arising. Yes, you can point to terrorism, but this goes even further beyond that. Muslims are generally very intolerant of the LGBTQ community, people with other/no religious beliefs, and a plethora of other areas which go against their word of God.
Just so I make this clear, this is not a problem which is exclusive to Islam. Take a radical enough Christain or Jew, and they'll be just as intolerant towards gays or will go blow up abortion clinics.
This is not meant to condemn all Muslims. I have no doubt that the great majority live in good faith, and live their lives simply following their beliefs and customs. This is meant to be a condemnation of a lifestyle which demands absolute unquestioning obedience. Even those good-natured Muslims are not free of these adverse effects. They might be wonderful and lovely people, but many of them would still grow uncomfortable when around a gay person or when talking about gay marriage. Many will avoid people who hold no religion or simply find them distasteful.
This is the toxic effect which extreme religion has on the world. Too often it puts barriers between people. "You're not allowed to be friends with this person because he's a queer" "You're not allowed to marry that person because he's an Athiest" "I don't want to be with someone who doesn't believe what I do"
It's a very frustrating situation >_<
For me, Islam is like every other Abrahamic religion to some extent. The Quran and Hadith were put together many centuries ago by committee after the initial events. There are some noble and moral passages, but it's also a product of its time - a time of war. So there are a lot of violent and immoral passages too which contradict each other (again, a sign that it was drawn up by committee).
There's nothing wrong with any of this - like I said, it's just like other Abrahamic religions.
The problem is when people identify with their religion too much. It happens all the time with Christians too. You'll have fundamentalists in America or where ever who push junk science on children and spread hatred for groups of people they disagree with or have different sexual orientation - all because they associate themselves too much with their religion, and take the books too seriously.
And that's the problem with Islam; it demands too much allegiance. Islam is not simply a religion, it promotes itself as a way of life. It's not as simple as a belief system, it guides you on what to wear, what to eat, how to act and (maybe most importantly) how to think.
You can't demand such loyalty around such outdated and contradicting Holy Books without problems arising. Yes, you can point to terrorism, but this goes even further beyond that. Muslims are generally very intolerant of the LGBTQ community, people with other/no religious beliefs, and a plethora of other areas which go against their word of God.
Just so I make this clear, this is not a problem which is exclusive to Islam. Take a radical enough Christain or Jew, and they'll be just as intolerant towards gays or will go blow up abortion clinics.
This is not meant to condemn all Muslims. I have no doubt that the great majority live in good faith, and live their lives simply following their beliefs and customs. This is meant to be a condemnation of a lifestyle which demands absolute unquestioning obedience. Even those good-natured Muslims are not free of these adverse effects. They might be wonderful and lovely people, but many of them would still grow uncomfortable when around a gay person or when talking about gay marriage. Many will avoid people who hold no religion or simply find them distasteful.
This is the toxic effect which extreme religion has on the world. Too often it puts barriers between people. "You're not allowed to be friends with this person because he's a queer" "You're not allowed to marry that person because he's an Athiest" "I don't want to be with someone who doesn't believe what I do"
It's a very frustrating situation >_<
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YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
It goes much deeper than just the Mufti, Frankie.
Now you're sounding conspiratorial.
Are you implying that antisemitism did not play a role? Or perhaps that the Mufti would have chosen differently if he had known better? Or that the Mufti was not representative of the Muslims of the time?
Or that this episode does not count as evidence of Islamic affinity for supremacism?
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Oh, good grief.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world
Let this serve as a mere primer...
I'm sure anti-Semitism did play a part. It was rife throughout the world at that time, after all. But it was more about nationalism and overthrowing the British.
Yeah, I've read that before. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
Take it away, @Nietzsche . (If you feel like it.)
Would you like me to show you how various Zionist groups in Palestine worked with Nazi Germany in order to push the British out of Palestine? The Arabs were working with the Reich to kick out the colonial powers, and that's the long and the short of it.
Edit;
There was undoubtedly anti-Semitic ground they agreed on. But that didn't save the Poles, Ukrainians, Ruthenians who ended up in the same camps after the Jews were "umgesiedelt."
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I do not think Islam is a religion of peace. I do not think it is a religion of violence either. I would say the same for Christianity.
Let me define my terms here. By "religion of violence" I mean a religion that actively advocates physical violence towards others. By "religion of peace" I mean a religion that does not punish (or promise punishment for) people who hold other beliefs or practice in other ways. It is only extremists and fundamentals who advocate violence towards others, while the religion as a whole does support the idea of eternal punishment for the non-believers. Just like Christianity, we cannot call the whole religion violent just by its crazy extremists.
Let me define my terms here. By "religion of violence" I mean a religion that actively advocates physical violence towards others. By "religion of peace" I mean a religion that does not punish (or promise punishment for) people who hold other beliefs or practice in other ways. It is only extremists and fundamentals who advocate violence towards others, while the religion as a whole does support the idea of eternal punishment for the non-believers. Just like Christianity, we cannot call the whole religion violent just by its crazy extremists.
I don't disagree... but is that supposed to be reassuring?
What am I supposed to be reassuring you about?
Man... kudos for having the guts to express this. Reverence for the taboo is poorly tolerated by most, it seems. I usually keep my mouth shut about it, for reasons I'm sure you're more than familiar with yourself.
As for the subject of the OP, I can't say I have a particularly noteworthy opinion about Islam, as I simply am not learned enough about it to have a good basis. I know some basics, and have an overall appreciation of diverse cultures that of course extends to Islam as much as it does to all ways of life. Headscarves are beautiful - I wish I could wear them without coming across like a cultural appropriator or sending the wrong messages. I'm a big fan of their prohibition on alcohol, and find their daily prayer routine to be a source of inspiration. I've thought about doing something like that in my practice, but I am so terrible about routines like that... I admire the ones who can keep with it! I feel a kinship with them as a fellow religious minority who knows what it is like to be misunderstood, demonized, and slandered. They are the target of so much irrational hatred and scorn, it wrenches my heart to think upon it. I hope that they remain strong... and remember there are plenty of people like me who do not spit upon them.
Lots of serious practical challenges there, though.
For one, a sizeable part of the American people and military have become far too attached to the jobs and industry related to weaponry. That is something that must change, but it will be messy and face a lot of powerful internal resistance.
Then there is the difficulty in telling offensive from defensive weaponry.
Frankly, I don't think very many Americans have anywhere near the necessary good will and generosity to support any significant measure of humanitarian efforts abroad, either.
It would be marvelous if even part of that scenario came true. But you are in essence proposing that Americans become something that they do not even want to be.
And even if they do, there will still be a significant challenge in acquiring trust and good will from other places after so many years of macho posturing and so much deployment of coward weaponry. There are a lot of people with very good reason to think of Americans as untrustworthy warmongers.