Your religion's "feminine principle" - debate the necessity of it's inclusion in religious teachings

[Katzpur]

Well, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only Christian faith that teaches that we have a Mother in Heaven as well as a Father in Heaven. We believe that we are children of divine Parents, not just of a divine Father. How much better does it get?

 

[Storm]

I have to say, Katz, of all the Christian theologies I'm familiar with, LDS is my favorite.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

From Shekinah to Shakti - from Mary to Tara - from Isis to Kali.......we've heard every now and then about what is considered a "feminine principle" or POV of religious teachings and doctrine. I'm currently reading a couple of fantabulous books that nurture and support the feminine principle in Tibetan Buddhism that usually is described as the "dakini." And I'm discovering many esoteric and exoteric texts that were developed by and large by women who write eloquently and teach passionately without needing to be put through the male filter.

The two books I've been studying closely lately are Passionate Enlightenment by Miranda Shaw and Dakini's Warm Breath.... by Judith Simmer-Brown. I have plans on expanding my interests toward women's contributions in other traditions soon enough, though.

How important is it to emphasize the female POV in religious teachings? Does it provide balance to the masculine POV, or does it serve to confuse followers? Is it better to strive for androgyny and a genderless approach? Are the teachings and religious doctrine already considered genderless, and therefore women's religious studies are erroneous in it's assumptions of misogyny in religious institutions? Or are women's religious studies and POV's long overdue?

What say you?

It is very important. It does bring a much needed balance. Hinduism has many Godesses, and it has the female power, Shakti, which is said to be the most powerful power.

 

[LuisDantas]

In Theory there would be no need for gender aspects.

But, of course, religion is all about learning to deal with the real world; it's even one of the defining characters of, say, the Christian Holy Spirit. Transcendence happens among everyday experiences, including the experiences of relating to male and female perspectives.

So, yes, it is very reasonable to nurture a healthy understanding of female perspectives in a society such as ours that is still a bit too male-centered.

 

[tomspug]

While I can't speak for them personally, I am under the impression that every woman in our marriage group find the Biblical role of a woman to be both liberating and invigorating.

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

MysticSangha its the lack of a significant feminine principle in Buddhist tradition which keeps me as keenly interested in Taoism as Buddhism. I need the contrast.

I haven't read Passionate Enlightenment but I have read Dakini's Warm Breath and it contributed to a feeling of disillusionment that Buddhism as a tradition had maintained a strong feminine principle running through it. Maybe that could change in time. Maybe you're changing it.

The feminine principle truly was the dominant principle in Taoism. Keeping with the old ways it still is. e.g:-

"It was not only the philosophy of Taoism but also the Taoists' approach to nature which encouraged the early development of alchemy and science in China. The Taoists adopted a very receptive and open attitude to the world around them. They valued the qualities of yielding and tolerance. They did not try to impose their views on nature but rather contemplated it as they found it. By carefully observing its phenomena, they began to understand its ways.

The associated this receptive attitude with the 'feminine' approach to life. They called it the 'valley spirit'. Lao Tzu observed:

The valley spirit never dies;
It is the woman, primal mother.
Her gateway is the root of heaven and earth.
It is like a veil barely seen.
Use it; it will never fail.

In the original Chinese, 'woman' is literally called the 'Mysterious Feminine'. The feminine is not therefore a veil which hides nature but a thread which is woven throughout its fabric which if properly understood and tended can be used to accomplish great things. Indeed, the 'valley spirit' came to symbolise for alchemists the golden elixir itself." - The Philosopher's Stone by Peter Marshall

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Well, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only Christian faith that teaches that we have a Mother in Heaven as well as a Father in Heaven. We believe that we are children of divine Parents, not just of a divine Father. How much better does it get?

I personally love it, Kathryn. I like the balance of femininity and masculinity that is stressed in the teachings. If you don't mind, I'd like you to share some of the verses that you are aware of that emphasize the Heavenly Mother.

I have to say, Katz, of all the Christian theologies I'm familiar with, LDS is my favorite.

I, too, have for many years had a soft spot for LDS Christians. :flower:

 

[MysticSang'ha]

It is very important. It does bring a much needed balance. Hinduism has many Godesses, and it has the female power, Shakti, which is said to be the most powerful power.

I'm so glad you and Hema dropped in to the thread, because IMO some of the more colorful and detailed Goddess descriptions come from the Hindu traditions. Seriously, Don, I'm delighted. :hug:

I would love for you to embellish a bit on Shakti and the female power that you spoke of. How can you best describe Shakti in your own words?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

While I can't speak for them personally, I am under the impression that every woman in our marriage group find the Biblical role of a woman to be both liberating and invigorating.

Tom, I love ya baby, but I'd still like you to expound a bit further what you mean by this and by what you meant in your last post:

In my opinion, the Bible has plenty of material from a female POV, although probably not as much as a modern woman would prefer, but then again, most of it isn't really written from a "male" POV, it's more of an objective POV that happened to be written by men.

I hope I don't sound baiting. I'm very interested in how one can reconcile these gender differences with a genderless God, but to also have a Bible that has "plenty of material from a female POV." Plus, I'd like to know if the purpose of the Biblical woman is to be liberated and invigorated, as you stated, or is it kind of like a side effect?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

In Theory there would be no need for gender aspects.

But, of course, religion is all about learning to deal with the real world; it's even one of the defining characters of, say, the Christian Holy Spirit. Transcendence happens among everyday experiences, including the experiences of relating to male and female perspectives.

So, yes, it is very reasonable to nurture a healthy understanding of female perspectives in a society such as ours that is still a bit too male-centered.

Very good, Luis. I agree with you. But as I gather from what we study, we're stuck in samsara with our karma and our delusions until we can fully realize our enlightenment while being engaged in this realm.

Here's my thoughts to add on your response - It not only is reasonable, it is imperative to understand the female perspective and to utilize this perspective in our decision-making for the benefit of all. What I'm investigating is how exactly to do this.

BTW, you rock, Luis. You know that? :jam:

MysticSangha its the lack of a significant feminine principle in Buddhist tradition which keeps me as keenly interested in Taoism as Buddhism. I need the contrast.

I haven't read Passionate Enlightenment but I have read Dakini's Warm Breath and it contributed to a feeling of disillusionment that Buddhism as a tradition had maintained a strong feminine principle running through it. Maybe that could change in time. Maybe you're changing it.

WHOOT! Well..........we'll see. I'm extremely feisty and outspoken, and I do hope that my explorations into this discussion that may bleed into our Dharma center doesn't cause a rift. I believe this is much-needed. Other women have expressed a profound interest locally, and more than a few men have mentioned they'd like to see this happen.

Miranda Shaw's book Passionate Enlightenment is extremely good, and I would recommend it to anyone.

As far as your grievances about how masculine Buddhism culturally is practiced, I couldn't agree more. To add, I would say that the masculinity is still present in undertones of Western Buddhism, but the goal seems to present the practice as genderless as possible. What I have found in my experience (and this is purely my own so I can't speak for other Buddhists), is that here in the U.S. we often find practitioners who are:

Male and still walk, talk, and act with a fair amount of masculinity, OR males have completely shed gender qualities altogether with the goal of transcending gender roles, habits, and tendencies as was theorized earlier....

OR

Females who have shed the gender qualities altogether, OR walk around (strictly my opinion) like castrated males.

I continue to fail to see constant forms of femininity in Buddhism that doesn't seem to simply go along with cultural norms. And it is my present goal in investigating if this simply is my own delusions/attachments that I'm working through in the life, or if there really is more to the story here. :trampo:

The feminine principle truly was the dominant principle in Taoism. Keeping with the old ways it still is. e.g:-

"It was not only the philosophy of Taoism but also the Taoists' approach to nature which encouraged the early development of alchemy and science in China. The Taoists adopted a very receptive and open attitude to the world around them. They valued the qualities of yielding and tolerance. They did not try to impose their views on nature but rather contemplated it as they found it. By carefully observing its phenomena, they began to understand its ways.

The associated this receptive attitude with the 'feminine' approach to life. They called it the 'valley spirit'. Lao Tzu observed:

The valley spirit never dies;
It is the woman, primal mother.
Her gateway is the root of heaven and earth.
It is like a veil barely seen.
Use it; it will never fail.

In the original Chinese, 'woman' is literally called the 'Mysterious Feminine'. The feminine is not therefore a veil which hides nature but a thread which is woven throughout its fabric which if properly understood and tended can be used to accomplish great things. Indeed, the 'valley spirit' came to symbolise for alchemists the golden elixir itself." - The Philosopher's Stone by Peter Marshall

Utterly brilliant, SW! Thank you!

What I'd like to do is somehow bridge what seems to be a gap between philosophers and mystics who wax poetic beautifully about our feminine nature and female-ness IN nature, and to have real, live, women who can realistically be considered part of a lineage. What tends to happen for me, is I see great and wonderful abstract descriptions of a mother-figure, or a consort, or a partner, or a maiden in theology but so very little flesh and blood women that I know who are readily available to discuss women's issues and perspectives and hormones and on and on and on from a spiritual POV.

Right now, and perhaps you could shed some more of the grievance about how patriarchal many forms of Buddhism still takes, a lineage is filled with man after man after man after man. If we really can transcend gender, then were are the women in these positions?

June Campbell once stated:

Reductionism, incorporation, and assimilation of the female into the male domain renders her as "other", a category in which she is defined by and through her relation to the dominant force - the male. In other words, she is unable to define herself, and must rely on the "enlightened" men in the lineage to establish her position vis-a-vis her own........The absence of a female-centered symbolic, articulated in the context of a female subjective, has given rise to an ambiguous presence within the institutions of Buddhism, and created a situation of compromise for women practitioners." - from Traveller in Space

I largely agree. Like a male godhead, and a male Jesus, and male Moses, we have a male Buddha, a male Krishna.........men have historically been in written history the people who have had contact or visions of the Divine, or who have instituted teachings for people to follow. It isn't too difficult to find many descriptions of the godhead to have male qualities, eh? *giggle*

The missing links, IMO, are the female subjective that Campbell discusses. Tibetan Buddhism is rich rich RICH with female arhats, dieties, bodhisattvas, and Buddhas (along with titles like "mother of all the Buddhas), but consistently fails to show female representation in the highest lineages and teachers. It's nice to hear stories of Yeshe Tsogyal, Prajnaparamita, Vajrayogini, and all the female dakinis who appeared to siddhis like Tilopa and Padmasambhava.

It's just too bad we haven't been able to talk to them or receive secret teachings and transmissions.

What gives? Hmmmmm..........

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

WHOOT! Well..........we'll see. I'm extremely feisty and outspoken, and I do hope that my explorations into this discussion that may bleed into our Dharma center doesn't cause a rift. I believe this is much-needed. Other women have expressed a profound interest locally, and more than a few men have mentioned they'd like to see this happen.

*nods* It is much needed and there is most definitely more to the story - Buddhism needs you. :rainbow1:

What I'd like to do is somehow bridge what seems to be a gap between philosophers and mystics who wax poetic beautifully about our feminine nature and female-ness IN nature, and to have real, live, women who can realistically be considered part of a lineage. What tends to happen for me, is I see great and wonderful abstract descriptions of a mother-figure, or a consort, or a partner, or a maiden in theology but so very little flesh and blood women that I know who are readily available to discuss women's issues and perspectives and hormones and on and on and on from a spiritual POV.

Yeah. Most of what goes for the feminine principle is going to be from the perspective of men approaching the feminine. Vital for men but the forms it takes for men might not be much use for women. Btw Taoism might be a religion that emphasises the feminine principle over the masculine and there was no sex or gender but, thinking about it, there is only one famous Taoist sect I'm aware of that was started by a woman.

What about starting up a Buddhist group for women?

Right now, and perhaps you could shed some more of the grievance about how patriarchal many forms of Buddhism still takes, a lineage is filled with man after man after man after man. If we really can transcend gender, then were are the women in these positions?

Is that a koan?

This is beyond the scope of what can be touched upon in a simple post on RF but I suspect that, rather than simply finding transcendence & equanimity between the sexes & gender, or even a necessary step towards it, Buddhist tradition could become noticeably prominent as leaning towards & representing the female perspective in places. I'm sure men have somewhat different obstacles to overcome so Buddhist tradition that was more atuned to women would have different emphasis on best practices.

I haven't practiced meditation with Alceste much at all yet but we've spent a lot of time together exploring psychonaut techniques. From that I'm noticed that sex & gender is a large factor in the areas of mind that we're drawn to and what comes up.

Like a male godhead, and a male Jesus, and male Moses, we have a male Buddha, a male Krishna.........men have historically been in written history the people who have had contact or visions of the Divine, or who have instituted teachings for people to follow. It isn't too difficult to find many descriptions of the godhead to have male qualities, eh? *giggle*

The missing links, IMO, are the female subjective that Campbell discusses. Tibetan Buddhism is rich rich RICH with female arhats, dieties, bodhisattvas, and Buddhas (along with titles like "mother of all the Buddhas), but consistently fails to show female representation in the highest lineages and teachers. It's nice to hear stories of Yeshe Tsogyal, Prajnaparamita, Vajrayogini, and all the female dakinis who appeared to siddhis like Tilopa and Padmasambhava.

It's just too bad we haven't been able to talk to them or receive secret teachings and transmissions.

What gives? Hmmmmm..........

*nods* *embarrassed*
Alceste talks a lot about this. Because I'm a man I often have to have it pointed out to me, over and over.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

I'm so glad you and Hema dropped in to the thread, because IMO some of the more colorful and detailed Goddess descriptions come from the Hindu traditions. Seriously, Don, I'm delighted. :hug:

I would love for you to embellish a bit on Shakti and the female power that you spoke of. How can you best describe Shakti in your own words?

Thats nice, Mystic The power of the Shakti force cannot be described, it is a power which all the Gods become humble in front of. Shakti cannot be stopped by any force. It shows the female side to the power of god, since amale deities require balance, and a female force, shakti brings that balance.

Think next time before you decide to **** of a goddess

 

[Alceste]

It looks to me that there is an inherent assumption that were the Bible written by women at that time and in that area, nothing would be changed. It would still be the same Bible with the same language and the same words. And if this is the assumption, then I disagree. Women, by and large, communicate differently than men.........religious commentary in this day and age, imo, are still quite different between the two genders. The experiences between St. Teresa of Avila were different than those of St. Francis of Assisi. Or St. Augustine. Or Paul. Or the authors of the Gospels.

Personally I think the Bible is the most misogynistic religious text I have ever read, bar none. Granted, I haven't read the Koran, but I understand it's very similar. I think Tom refers to the fact there happen to be women in it. Usually being raped, stoned, sold, bartered or becoming "untouchable" for weeks or months at a time. Sitting silent in church, obeying their husbands, covering their hair, bearing children for great men (or gods), and aspiring to no more than an abiding faith in a (male) god that carries them through their immense suffering and sometimes throws them a bone for their devotion. It's Christianity that put me off religion entirely, and I grew up in the most egalitarian Christian church in existence at the time - the first to allow female ministers.

If Christian women find anything "inspiring" or "liberating" in the Bible's stories about women, I think they must not have exposed themselves to very many alternatives.

I submit that women's scholarship in religious studies as well as women's opportunities to mentor or teach in many religious traditions (at most the major religions including my own) throughout most of recorded history has been severely lacking, and that humanity has missed out on much that women could offer in terms of insight and wisdom from a female POV.

I agree!

The biggest problem we face, imo, is that we can't just go searching through existing religions for female perspectives. For the most part, it just isn't there. It's been edited out. Deleted. There's nothing to find. And not just from religious history, but from human history, science, philosophy and culture. (Admittedly, I'm not familiar enough with Hinduism to be able to comment whether this impression applies).

That's not to say that great female religious leaders never existed, but we have to dig deep to find them. For example, spiritually inclined women need to discover Hildegard von Bingen and Marguerete Porete for ourselves - we won't hear about them at all otherwise.

Anyway, it will be difficult to find a way forward from this point - for women, the dark ages never ended. We are ignorant of our own history, perceived through our own eyes and communicated in our own voices. In place of women's history we have a bit part in the history of men.

But I suppose the first step is digging, as you are doing with the books you are reading about the feminine principle in Buddhism.

For myself, I am most comfortable with Taoist history and culture (setting Confucianism aside) because the balance of masculine and feminine principles - not to mention strong male and female characters - is pervasive in everything from the Tao te Ching to Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Buddhism, I admit, never appealed to me for the same reason Christianity and western philosophy never did: there appear to be virtually no women in it, and I am a woman. It has nothing to do with me.

 

[Katzpur]

I personally love it, Kathryn. I like the balance of femininity and masculinity that is stressed in the teachings. If you don't mind, I'd like you to share some of the verses that you are aware of that emphasize the Heavenly Mother.

Actually, there really aren't many references to Her in LDS teachings. We believe that She exists and is the Eternal Partner of our Father in Heaven. Aside from that, we don't have much to go on. But, here is a link that contains a few of our leaders' statements on the subject: Mother in Heaven.

I, too, have for many years had a soft spot for LDS Christians. :flower:

Thank you, Heather. Right now I'd say you're part of a very tiny minority.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

*nods* It is much needed and there is most definitely more to the story - Buddhism needs you. :rainbow1:



Yeah. Most of what goes for the feminine principle is going to be from the perspective of men approaching the feminine. Vital for men but the forms it takes for men might not be much use for women. Btw Taoism might be a religion that emphasises the feminine principle over the masculine and there was no sex or gender but, thinking about it, there is only one famous Taoist sect I'm aware of that was started by a woman.

What about starting up a Buddhist group for women?

Cool. It's about time we have a group that is headed primarily by women. Maybe it'll catch on. :angel2:

Is that a koan?

This is beyond the scope of what can be touched upon in a simple post on RF but I suspect that, rather than simply finding transcendence & equanimity between the sexes & gender, or even a necessary step towards it, Buddhist tradition could become noticeably prominent as leaning towards & representing the female perspective in places. I'm sure men have somewhat different obstacles to overcome so Buddhist tradition that was more atuned to women would have different emphasis on best practices.

Correct. I'm just wishing that certain freaky tantric pujas would become practiced more often. *wink wink*

I haven't practiced meditation with Alceste much at all yet but we've spent a lot of time together exploring psychonaut techniques. From that I'm noticed that sex & gender is a large factor in the areas of mind that we're drawn to and what comes up.


*nods* *embarrassed*
Alceste talks a lot about this. Because I'm a man I often have to have it pointed out to me, over and over.

Well, it's hard to ignore, love. We truly are different phsysiologically, in our brains, in our hormones, the fact that we naturally work in cycles in our own bodies. While it's imperative that we study/practice our religious morals and ethics, cosmologies, concepts, and applying them to THIS world, it's disingenuous to turn a blind eye that women are already at a disadvantage when these cosmologies and religious concepts don't present that very feminine perspective of these natural cycles and fluctuations, creation/death/regeneration, and sexuality.

I know for me, I do see a personal and intimate tendency to be attracted more to what is laid out and presented in Tibetan Buddhism because of the vibrancy of sexual yab-yum imagery and female deities and bodhisattvas. However, as to how tulkus and current incarnations of important lamas and teachers in our lineages are now not so many Tibetan people, but are American, Spanish, Australian.........I see guys that are reborn in other cultures, but apparently not with girly parts.

This is when I raise an eyebrow.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Thats nice, Mystic The power of the Shakti force cannot be described, it is a power which all the Gods become humble in front of. Shakti cannot be stopped by any force. It shows the female side to the power of god, since amale deities require balance, and a female force, shakti brings that balance.

Think next time before you decide to **** of a goddess

Thanks, Don. Shakti rocks, personally. I also have to really give it up to Kali. :bow:

Another question, since I'm just too darn curious for my own good. When I see an emphasis on maintaining or creating balance, what measure of autonomy does a masculine godhead or a feminine godhead have? When there are purely autonomous male gods that create the universe, the heavens and the hells, and that do not have use for a female force for these creations............OR we have goddess traditions that incorporate feelings of protective and all-nurturing Mother Earth/Milky Way Galaxy that only fleetingly use the male potency for it's own creation stories........how do we ensure there is a balance? And how do we ensure each psyche has it's own independent measure of influence in our own lives?

 

[Darkwater]

I am completely with Penguinoni here,the 3 fates or norns,Valkyrie,Hollye/whichever label you wish to use shall judge us all,even the Gods come the time of reckoning or at least any I have met.

Godess is healer/destroyer,BIG HUGGER,wee cuddler, & much more...my ambition is to become a dead skull hanging from Kali's belt,she goes wild when I tell her this.
Jai MA!

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Personally I think the Bible is the most misogynistic religious text I have ever read, bar none. Granted, I haven't read the Koran, but I understand it's very similar. I think Tom refers to the fact there happen to be women in it. Usually being raped, stoned, sold, bartered or becoming "untouchable" for weeks or months at a time. Sitting silent in church, obeying their husbands, covering their hair, bearing children for great men (or gods), and aspiring to no more than an abiding faith in a (male) god that carries them through their immense suffering and sometimes throws them a bone for their devotion. It's Christianity that put me off religion entirely, and I grew up in the most egalitarian Christian church in existence at the time - the first to allow female ministers.

If Christian women find anything "inspiring" or "liberating" in the Bible's stories about women, I think they must not have exposed themselves to very many alternatives.

I've been curious about these very things for a while, too. But I'd like to explore with Christian and Muslim women where do they find their femininity within their own traditions. I'd rather not allow a man to define my own worth, and since I've interpreted the Abrahamic religions (which mostly seem extremely masculine) to define my values, roles, and importance for me, it tends to lead me away from it, too.

However, this is why I would very much like to hear more input from women of the Abrahamic religions in this discussion. In fact, I actually yearn for it.

The biggest problem we face, imo, is that we can't just go searching through existing religions for female perspectives. For the most part, it just isn't there. It's been edited out. Deleted. There's nothing to find. And not just from religious history, but from human history, science, philosophy and culture. (Admittedly, I'm not familiar enough with Hinduism to be able to comment whether this impression applies).

That's not to say that great female religious leaders never existed, but we have to dig deep to find them. For example, spiritually inclined women need to discover Hildegard von Bingen and Marguerete Porete for ourselves - we won't hear about them at all otherwise.

Anyway, it will be difficult to find a way forward from this point - for women, the dark ages never ended. We are ignorant of our own history, perceived through our own eyes and communicated in our own voices. In place of women's history we have a bit part in the history of men.

Oh my goodness, that is so so so true, girlfriend. Women have been merely the "backdrop" of spiritual advancement. We've been the cheerleader or the consort or the quiet mother at best, the victims of rape and abuse and murder the worst. If Bingen and Porete haven't taught us much, at least they show us to open our mouths and speak up.

But I suppose the first step is digging, as you are doing with the books you are reading about the feminine principle in Buddhism.

For myself, I am most comfortable with Taoist history and culture (setting Confucianism aside) because the balance of masculine and feminine principles - not to mention strong male and female characters - is pervasive in everything from the Tao te Ching to Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Buddhism, I admit, never appealed to me for the same reason Christianity and western philosophy never did: there appear to be virtually no women in it, and I am a woman. It has nothing to do with me.

Perfectly understandable, love. Not a lot of information is out there.

For me, I so far look to Khandro Rinpoche, Venerable Robina Courtin (whom I have met and remain in contact with), Venerable Sangye Khadro and Pema Chodron. These are women who are erudite and very passionate about what they teach, and they do a remarkable job in their scholarship. Robina and I even had a great chat once about PMS and the Tibetan Buddhist POV of it (which seemed very female about it's understandings of it and it's transformative power).

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Actually, there really aren't many references to Her in LDS teachings. We believe that She exists and is the Eternal Partner of our Father in Heaven. Aside from that, we don't have much to go on. But, here is a link that contains a few of our leaders' statements on the subject: Mother in Heaven.

Truthfully, Katz, I think that's much more empowering than how I had interpreted Christian doctrine for a long time. I like the revelation spoken here:

In the heav'ns are parents single?
No, the thought makes reason stare!
Truth is reason; truth eternal
Tells me I've a mother there.

When I leave this frail existence,
When I lay this mortal by,
Father, Mother, may I meet you
In your royal courts on high?

I see that to be quite consistent with the ethics and morals that are taught for us humans on this Earth. Very cool, and as a woman, I can jive with that. :yes:

What I personally would like to see more of, is the transmissions of teachings passed down from woman to woman as part of established and published works. Even more cool if this could come from via direct communication with the Heavenly Mother herself, but maybe this is my Catholic girl side surfacing again.

But that's just me. Is it good to have these teachings more implicit rather than documented and to have full textual readings of her? Does that push for more introspection instead of seeking answers on womanhood in the written word? I'm curious if there is wisdom in THIS, too, since we as women COULD then legitimately make up own our rules. *hee hee, there's my devil's advocate position again*

Thank you, Heather. Right now I'd say you're part of a very tiny minority.

Oh, I doubt it. Even though I've always sort of marched to the beat of my own drum, I think what you're mostly seeing is just a projection of anger from a good many people that are confused and hurt. People may look fickle, but I believe that deep down, we just want happiness. And that's true no matter who it is.

psssst.....here's a Big Squishy Hug

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I am completely with Penguinoni here,the 3 fates or norns,Valkyrie,Hollye/whichever label you wish to use shall judge us all,even the Gods come the time of reckoning or at least any I have met.

Godess is healer/destroyer,BIG HUGGER,wee cuddler, & much more...my ambition is to become a dead skull hanging from Kali's belt,she goes wild when I tell her this.
Jai MA!

Once again, give it up for Kali. :bow:

I like the Goddess references you gave, but clear this up for me: What relationship do they have with Odin? I keep seeing stories of servitude here, but maybe it's just me. But if it's true, is there a balance? Is there empowerment? I'd sincerely like to know more, since I'm sadly rather ignorant of this tradition.