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Your religion's "feminine principle" - debate the necessity of it's inclusion in religious teachings

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Here is an exapmple of a Christian woman that I have learned from and been blessed by..These are her words..After she got mad at Proverbs 31 woman being made out to sound as if it was her husband ..not God..allowing her to be independent..And this woman (a friend of mine)..was accused of being a feminist man hater...


The Proverbs 31 woman... who can find her? I have some thoughts on this... I wanted to share with you. I said that the proverb was about her, as an independent woman. I was assailed for that.

But, I want to share why I would say that. Proverbs 31 is not about the husband or about his being the head, not at all.
It is about the "finding" of a woman who is already productive and independent in her own right, before she is found.

First of all, the proverb is written from Solomon's mother to him in instruction to him on finding a wife. And she tells him to seek this woman who has these qualities ... this independence, to be and do things above the abilities of the every day woman. She tells him to seek this woman who has an independence in the free market, a business of her own, and who can carry the responsibility of running a complete household at the same time she is producing and trading goods of the time in the markets and ports to the point of being the CEO of her company... if you will.

Her independence sets him free to sit at the gates and to speak highly of her. Speaking at the gates, done by upward men of the day, who discussed the affairs of the city. In the midst of that he tells them, "Hey... btw... I have a wife who came to me a complete woman, I found one who knew what she was doing and what a blessing that is to me in my own place in life." He is not saying... "I have a wife who lives in submission to me by golly"... not at all.

So, where did she come from? Where did she get the gifts to be this rounded person she was... Some talkers would have us to believe it is due to her husband, she can't be independent, he is over her... I disagree. I believe she can be. And is.

Who can find her? This implies she comes to you when you do find her, already equiped to be what she is to be ... How did this happen? She had strong and involved parents is how. Someone taught her how markets are run, and how to keep books, how to run a household and to prepare for those who work for her and to maintain her "loveliness" as a woman while dealing with the situations that come with this... someone instilled a work ethic in her, someone taught her to be honorable in her dealings of finance and marketing. Someone taught the trade, and to use her hands in skilled labor to create the goods she sold and traded in the ports to the merchants. But she was already walking in these things when she is found, by the proverb.. the writing, the instruction.

So... she had all of this, when she is found, it came with her, and that means she was raised up and prepared independently of her yet to be husband by a father and a mother who understood these areas and gave that to her.
They taught her to do and be who she needed to be independent of an overseer, and someone to guide her steps, which by the way, is what set her husband free to sit at the gate... Her teaching did that. Her having these areas instilled in her BEFORE she was found by the man who was lucky to get her... by the word of Solomon's mother. They MUST have told her she was of worth, that she could do it, they built up her confidence and spoke things of honor and value into her spirit as they raised her. They had to, that is what good parents do. They spent their life giving her all that she needed to set her apart from others. She did not NEED a man, she did not have to have one to get around in the world and to prosper in her own right at all. Not everyone does get married in life, and her parents prepared her to succeed and to care for herself and others in a time when most were pushing their daughters to marry well. Or to just marry.

A man is more blessed according to this passage by having an independent and educated woman who does not need him to oversee her day to day choices and the managing of her own busines, her household, her hired employees and even the fincances to make it all work and run smooth, to the end result of finacial independence and wealth that she shares with her household in return. He FOUND one smart woman in her own right. If she was not all of the things noted about her... when he found her, he would have had to participate in the running and overseeing of her marketing ventures and all that she ventured to do... she would have needed his guidence to do it... She did not. She did it well when she came to him, she continued to do it well and to excell at it to the point that He could be part of the "men at the gate" which was a thing to be in the day... much like being on the City Council if you will.

Now, I've been accused of being some Feminazi for this thinking, but I am not... I see in her a very strong independence, and a confidence that I believe was put there by her parents in the way the raised her all of her life, she came educated and rounded to her husband. She also was a blessing to her parents in return by honoring all they instilled in her as whe went on in life to be a women worthy of NOTATION... she is noted for who she is, and what she is by Solomon's mother.

She submitted herself to the custom of the day, and married. She obeyed the regulations of the being a Jew, in the time for her not to marry would have been a shame on her parents... She did well, and in fact, she excelled above other women in what she did... that is an independent woman who has a submissive heart unto the LORD, her parents, and her husband.. not just to a man. She yeilded herself, she chose to be and do what she did. SHE CHOSE IT. And it blessed all of those around her. How can any man think that to "find" a woman such as this means that because he is her covering, that he is her mind and that she didn't do anything independent of him? That this proverb isn't about her being completely independent in her own right? Solomon's mother went a long way to speak to this woman being strong, intelligent, educated, successful and quite capable WHEN SHE IS FOUND... or married.

I think when we look at the Proverbs 31 woman, we don't NEED to look to see her husband to find her... we need to examine her parents and who she is in her self and then say to the husband... the same thing that Solomon's mother said... "You did well, to find this woman"... "You sir, truely did find a gift, and you are blessed"... Rather than to imply that she is blessed that he notes her and allows her to be who she really already was when he found her. In my humble opinion.

What my friend is trying to say..Is this woman existed and was FOUND that way by her husband..Not that her husband shaped and molded her and "taught" her how to be a woman by following his authority..She was being the woman that God created her to be...

Love

Dallas
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
I'm curious if you believe that the wisdom of female importance and empowerment is somehow inherent or obvious, and that it is replicated in nature all around us.

Women are the ones who birth us, who tend to feed us, nurture us, and tend to dominate the care-giving roles. Is this perhaps all the evidence that we need? How much ought to be reflected in religious doctrine?

And I go on and on ...I think its "inherent and obvious"..and its replicated in nature all around us..And it should be all the evidence both men and women need..

Instead I think we are 'broken down"..by those who are threatened by us..And want to control us...And want to dominate over us...Who want to "use" us for their own enrichment.

How much of the "truth" should be reflected in religious doctrine??..a hell of a lot more..IMHO..

Because even though its "obvious"..Or at least it should be..We as a gender were opressed..held down..forced to be dependent on men in many ways...but its not just that..the lack of acknowledgment that even IF we are dependent on men in ways..Lets not kid ourselves..they depend on us and they know it...

And do not get me wrong..I value the differences in men and women..I also believe our roles can be "defined" and we can choose to take a "traditional " role as women and be proud of that..

But its an "inter-dependence"...

Both having irreplaceable value..Both having gifts to share..

Women somehow got pushed to the background..for too long..Adn the ripple affect is still here..even in our modern times....And Im sorry..most religious doctrine does NOT help..You have to scrape adn search..And focus on the positive representatives of women in religion..

For me.. in the article I linked on Jesus and women..you just take a look at how some of those women "sparkled"...And how Jesus treated them..They surely arent the "minority"..as to what is inside women..our nature..And Jesus "knew" that...Unfortunately we have too few examples..and not enough elaboration..IMHO..but it is there..

Love

Dallas
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
*gives standing ovation*

Dallas, can you be my talent agent? :rainbow1:

Yes mam... But only if you will be mine... :hug:

Thats ANOTHER strenght and power of a woman..Women LOVE women..(or they should and most that I know do)...They encourage each other and support each other ...they identify with each other admire each other and uplift one another..they teach each other..and if need be they admonish one another in love..

If women didnt have other women??..They surely wouldnt thrive the way that they do....Women bless each other..They are sisters...

Love

Dallas
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Some women are *****es though..to be fair!!! LOL!!!

But right now Im on a woman power kick!...And its Alceste and Mystics FAULT!!!!!!!

Love

Dallas
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
I think it's interesting also that for many marriages (for many healthy ones, that is), if you ask the husband who his closest friend is, he'll say his wife. If you ask the wife who her closest friend is, she'll say.........well, her girlfriend. Of course, this isn't across the board (my best friend is still my husband, but it's not quite the same as the kind of dynamic that I have with my girlfriends).

When it comes to PMS or any other woman issue, I prefer to turn to my girlfriends or my mother or my grandmother. There's something about a woman that hears you crying on her shoulder and her response is "I understand". :yes:

OK, now that we're on this track that we acknowledge that empowered women exist, what can we do to ensure that this is acknowledged in more religious teachings? Just for me, personally, I'm very attached to the idea of having a women's group, and I'm driven to get it going. It'll take at least a couple of months for me to investigate and to get the blessings of our parent organization, but if/when that happens...........then what?

Can y'all help me out here? :)
 
I think it's interesting also that for many marriages (for many healthy ones, that is), if you ask the husband who his closest friend is, he'll say his wife. If you ask the wife who her closest friend is, she'll say.........well, her girlfriend. Of course, this isn't across the board (my best friend is still my husband, but it's not quite the same as the kind of dynamic that I have with my girlfriends).

When it comes to PMS or any other woman issue, I prefer to turn to my girlfriends or my mother or my grandmother. There's something about a woman that hears you crying on her shoulder and her response is "I understand". :yes:

OK, now that we're on this track that we acknowledge that empowered women exist, what can we do to ensure that this is acknowledged in more religious teachings? Just for me, personally, I'm very attached to the idea of having a women's group, and I'm driven to get it going. It'll take at least a couple of months for me to investigate and to get the blessings of our parent organization, but if/when that happens...........then what?

Can y'all help me out here? :)
I was going to make a femenist joke, but i dont think i should... Its funny :D
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
I think it's interesting also that for many marriages (for many healthy ones, that is), if you ask the husband who his closest friend is, he'll say his wife. If you ask the wife who her closest friend is, she'll say.........well, her girlfriend. Of course, this isn't across the board (my best friend is still my husband, but it's not quite the same as the kind of dynamic that I have with my girlfriends).

When it comes to PMS or any other woman issue, I prefer to turn to my girlfriends or my mother or my grandmother. There's something about a woman that hears you crying on her shoulder and her response is "I understand". :yes:

OK, now that we're on this track that we acknowledge that empowered women exist, what can we do to ensure that this is acknowledged in more religious teachings? Just for me, personally, I'm very attached to the idea of having a women's group, and I'm driven to get it going. It'll take at least a couple of months for me to investigate and to get the blessings of our parent organization, but if/when that happens...........then what?

Can y'all help me out here? :)

I'll be there!!!...In fact it was a womans forum that I befriended the woman I quoted....We had stay at home moms with as many as 7 children..Working moms..Single women..Women with husbands that werent exactly being nice to them...Women confessing secrets and askign for help..(because they werent exactly doing the right thing)...Women going through divorce..Women getting married..Make -up tips..(tee hee)...Nursing(breast feeding) tips..MENOPAUSE/PMS *****ING and tips...LOL!!!..Women that needed to be slapped aroudn a little by another woman!!..And they would say THANK YOU I needed that!!! LOL!!!

And this is a large forum here..If we share our wisdom and knowledge..Do our reasearch..Put our heads together..God only knows how many women we may possibly help feel "empowered" rather than "helpless"..or lost..And just in general be there for one another..I need it...I know that...

Love

Dallas
 
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DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Well...Umm... Here goes...

Why did god make lesbians? So femenists couldn't breed. :biglaugh:

Well Im not insulted..But I dont get it??Like all "feminist " are lesbians?..

O.K..LOL!!!

But are you aware that their are many "men " feminist?..What does that make them?

Love

Dallas
 
Well Im not insulted..But I dont get it??Like all "feminist " are lesbians?..

O.K..LOL!!!

But are you aware that their are many "men " feminist?..What does that make them?

Love

Dallas

Naw... Femenists aren't really lesbians... i think it means femenists are so disgusted with men they just don't want anything to do with them..

As for male femenists...WHA??!
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Naw... Femenists aren't really lesbians... i think it means femenists are so disgusted with men they just don't want anything to do with them..

As for male femenists...WHA??!

Yeah..Men who are activist in womens rights..

And feminism doesnt equal disgust with men..

There are all different kind of "feminist"..Some of the most insulting people I have met were feminist "extremist"..

For example they would tell me that I wasted my life beign a "stay at home mom"..And in fact Im a "threat to society"...

Anyway..feminism means different things to different people..Kind of like "liberal" ..or "conservative"..Their is way to the left..and way to the right..

Love

Dallas
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
I'll be there!!!...In fact it was a womans forum that I befriended the woman I quoted....We had stay at home moms with as many as 7 children..Working moms..Single women..Women with husbands that werent exactly being nice to them...Women confessing secrets and askign for help..(because they werent exactly doing the right thing)...Women going through divorce..Women getting married..Make -up tips..(tee hee)...Nursing(breast feeding) tips..MENOPAUSE/PMS *****ING and tips...LOL!!!..Women that needed to be slapped aroudn a little by another woman!!..And they would say THANK YOU I needed that!!! LOL!!!

And this is a large forum here..If we share our wisdom and knowledge..Do our reasearch..Put our heads together..God only knows how many women we may possibly help feel "empowered" rather than "helpless"..or lost..And just in general be there for one another..I need it...I know that...

Love

Dallas

Girlfriend, I need that, too. Even though it may look like I don't. :hug:

I had a thread that had a fairly good run, but it hasn't been resurrected for about a year or so.

Girl Talk

It's funny to revisit that and to see how things have changed with me alone since then. LOL
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Girlfriend, I need that, too. Even though it may look like I don't. :hug:

I had a thread that had a fairly good run, but it hasn't been resurrected for about a year or so.

Girl Talk

It's funny to revisit that and to see how things have changed with me alone since then. LOL

Aww...yep I skimmed through it ...That was GIRL power!!!

My hair ..my nails..my husband!!!! I found some cute shoes..Im behind on the laundry ...I LOVE THE BEACH!

But I cant find a DECENT BRA!!!!!! ...LOL!!!!

Sounds good to me.. :yes:

Love

Dallas
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Girlfriend, I need that, too. Even though it may look like I don't. :hug:

I had a thread that had a fairly good run, but it hasn't been resurrected for about a year or so.

Girl Talk

It's funny to revisit that and to see how things have changed with me alone since then. LOL

And thats another thing Heather..It looks like you dont!

How in the HELL do you manage that!!!

You tricked me...:yes:

Tee hee!!!

I like shoes...I like "Candies" HAHA!

I give a dog a bath!!!

Oh...my sister... :rolleyes: (I mean the other one)

THEN I talked to my mother!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh well.....Im supposed to vacume...

Im ALMOST off my period...It started on ELECTION day..(the 4th)...I LOVE it when Im done...Its like a clean slate... :cool:

Anyway...I'll talk to you later...

I miss kitty cat around here...ex-austed..

She worries me...

And have to round up Charity..and Alceste..and bo-bacey...Katz...Miss littlle tigeress..Violet and Nanda...

Whew...Im tired already!!! LOL!

Love

Dallas
 

Darkwater

Well-Known Member
Sekhmet: "I wear many faces as a reflection of the One, who is Creatrix and holds the template of the One Heart that burns bright through all the heavens.

"We are introducing a new paradigm of light. Visualize this as a necklace of jewels adorning your planet in a pattern of a deliberate and exquisite hologram of light strands. It is a new order of being. It is the healing of separation and of limitation. It is everything the human heart has longed for. It is everything you now know about energy and information and more.
"We bring this web, structure, pattern, hologram, into this dimension to bring this planet of hearts and love into a grander pattern of light that connects galaxies. Earth is preparing herself to be the Cosmic Heart Center of the Galaxy. We, as Galactic Guardians, are here to support the birth into a New Age of Heart. Heart Presence returns. Heartlessness must be released from all life who carry it still.

"It is our Galactic commitment and endeavor to support all in healing their internal separation from Source. Anchor and embody the One Heart within and realize you are one and the same. Bring the energies of love into your body and allow this love to live in you."
 
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