Your view on abortion. Atheist welcome.

[DallasApple]

I can't understand how anyone can not see a human baby as being human even in the earliest stages of life. No wait I can, because that gives them the excuse to get rid of that life if it's unwanted. Just because the law doesn't consider it murder to execute as a punishment for crimes doesn't mean it isn't.

ITS human TISSUE ,,not a "baby"...And what would be a CRIME would be to tell me Im REQIURED against MY WILL to USE my body to incubate human tissue of which not only is "half mine" MY EGG) but that my body is held captive for 40 weeks to supply the nutrients and "space" to grow the tissue long enough untill it is viable outside of MY BODY. And then to deliver through pain and physical damage a baby that I DID NOT WANT or COULD not TAKE care of..

Is it that hard for you to grasp? Why do you think people use birth control? Because they DONT want a "baby"..or CANT have the baby and take care of it..

How is it any different if you get pregnant by accident?

Its MY right to decide how many babies I carry and deliver from early cell division to term...NOT yours.

Thank GOD!

Love

Dallas

 

[DarkMaster24]

Mother's should allways have the choise as to if they want to have their baby or not. pray4me, you have no right to dictate what a woman does with her body.

I don't believe they are babies untill they're born and untill than, mother's can do what they want with their unwanted babies.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Pro-life is not about telling other people how to live their lives.

I notice that by the end of this paragraph, you've changed your tune on this point.

It's about protecting the innocent which cannot protect themselves. No I don't think it's right for anyone to take the lives of abortion doctors and nurses. No more than it is right for those doctors and nurses and the mothers who come to them, to take the lives of innocent babies.

I assume that you're just as strong an advocate for pacifism as you are for the prohibition of abortion, then, right?

How about AIDS? Did you know that if an HIV-positive mother is treated with antiretroviral drugs during pregnancy, the rate at which she passes the virus to her child during the birthing process is reduced by 99%, but only about 15% of HIV-positive pregnant women in the developing world even have access to these drugs?

Regardless of the divided opinion on whether or not a fetus is a child, until such time as I hear the so-called "pro-life" movement shouting just as loudly for the money needed to supply these women with drugs to save the lives of their children - actual children - as they do against abortion, I can't consider the movement anything other than hollow hypocrisy.

The anti-abortion movement calls itself "pro-life". Even taking as given that they consider fetusus to be people, if they were truly interested in protecting as many innocent lives as they could, they would do things very differently. Say you wanted to do as much good in the world as you could. You've got a few options; which would you go for?

- tackle problems where the solution is clear and straightforward, and only needs people to take up the cause to be virtually guaranteed success and have a tremendous positive impact.

- expend your money, effort and resources butting heads with the other side on an issue which, if you won, you could save some lives but which is hopelessly deadlocked.

Second only to the absolute hypocrisy of condemning abortion as murder while also opposing contraception, the idea that fighting abortion to the exclusion of working on all sorts of other pressing issues is somehow "pro-life" is the think that bothers me most about the anti-abortion movement.

If you think about it, the law tells people how to live their lives every day. It tells us we cannot just go out and kill someone because we don't agree with them. We cannot steal because we are poor. The law can tell us that we cannot sell our organs to the highest bidder. We cannot even put our own lives in danger by refusing to wear seatbelts if we follow the law. So why then, can a law not tell mothers not to murder their own children simply because they haven't been born yet?

For one thing, we have no reason to consider them children except the say-so of people who believe as you do.

 

[DarkMaster24]

DallasApple, for a Christian you seem to be unusally open-minded, which is really cool. I admire that.

 

[pray4me]

I can think of another one. Because something that doesn't have lungs, eyes, legs, arms, a liver, etc. doesn't really resemble a human in any way at all. You can say it has the potential to become one, but you're being dishonest with yourself if you say you can't see how anyone can view it as not a human at that point.



Yes, it is. It's about telling people that they have to do this particular thing your way.



The innocent what? They're not fully human yet.



Because it's more personal than that. With this view you are failing to see the immense difference between an unborn baby and a human being capable of sustaining itself outside of its mother.

First, the law tells us how to live our lives only in how we interact with others. Generally, I can do whatever I want, as long as I'm not endangering others. I can't murder someone because that's infringing on their rights. Same thing with stealing. As far as seatbelts go, that's because if you get into an accident, you could incur serious injury or death which either your insurance or the other person's might have to pay for, which means we all pay more. It's not because it could negatively affect you, it's because of the possible negative effects on others.

So, we can't tell mothers not to have abortions because it's their body and their life. First, you have to acknowledge the difference when it's a baby that can't survive without you. Then, you realize that it's a lot more complicated than just calling it murder.

A born baby cannot survive without the care of someone else. It may be able to survive without it's mother due to formula but it needs someone to care for it. A child needs someone to care for them as well. And do you consider a premature birth inhuman because they have to put the baby in an incubator? A woman who suffers a miscarriage suffers the death of a child. Not the loss of a possibility. A human baby does not look like, eat or drink the same as we do as adults, does that make them less human? They cannot walk yet, talk yet. They do not have the skills necessary to survive in the outside world. Some people grow into old age never being able to take care of themselves without help.

 

[DallasApple]

Again, why would I care? I've never been in the position to have to decide. I'm married, and plan to have kids. If my wife accidentally gets pregnant this year (as opposed to two years from now when we're ready), we'll have the baby. I don't ever expect to have an abortion, so I don't care. This whole line of reasoning of yours is ridiculous and false.

And that is another thing?

YOU have a baby YOU take care of it..Just like if I have an abortion YOU dont suffer..Its flat out NONE of your business..(not you Ball head..just using your statment)..

The babies I have had YOU did NOT do a DAMN thing for..Why do you care about the ones I "didnt have"?????

Look..go adopt some kids..or do something productive..

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

DallasApple, for a Christian you seem to be unusally open-minded, which is really cool. I admire that.

Because you have to be open minded to be HUMAN!(which Jesus was)

Thanks for not accusing me of not even being a Christian because I have a brain along side a heart..

(((HUGS))))

Love

DAllas

 

[DarkMaster24]

Exactly. No problem, glad I could be of help. And yeah, i think if Jesus were alive right now, or he'd be appalled by the religious right and their discrimination of women. Glad you're not a part of that.

 

[DallasApple]

Mother's should allways have the choise as to if they want to have their baby or not. pray4me, you have no right to dictate what a woman does with her body.

I don't believe they are babies untill they're born and untill than, mother's can do what they want with their unwanted babies.

Tee hee..I will say they are "babies" at some point before birth..

I reject late term abortions.(which are rare)..I do believe there is a point of no return.

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Exactly. No problem, glad I could be of help. And yeah, i think if Jesus were alive right now, or he'd be appalled by the religious right and their discrimination of women. Glad you're not a part of that.

Thanks hun..I think I like you..

Love

Dallas

 

[Magic Man]

A born baby cannot survive without the care of someone else. It may be able to survive without it's mother due to formula but it needs someone to care for it. A child needs someone to care for them as well.

Yes, I've been over this before. Of course a baby needs someone to take care of it. The point is that until a certain point, the baby can't even survive outside of its mother. It absolutely needs to stay inside of the mother until that point. During that period, it is part of her, and not fully human.

And do you consider a premature birth inhuman because they have to put the baby in an incubator?

As long as it survives, it's human.

A woman who suffers a miscarriage suffers the death of a child. Not the loss of a possibility.

Sort of, but not really.

A human baby does not look like, eat or drink the same as we do as adults, does that make them less human?

If you mean once they're born, then no. If you mean before they're born, then yes.

They cannot walk yet, talk yet. They do not have the skills necessary to survive in the outside world. Some people grow into old age never being able to take care of themselves without help.

Very true, but they can survive outside of another person. You're missing that key difference.

 

[DarkMaster24]

Well, I didn't mean to go that far...Hehe, I was just trying to emphasize to show pray4me how irrational he/she was being.

 

[DarkMaster24]

Thanks hun..I think I like you..

Love

Dallas

Thanks, you're a cool person too. I'm allways glad to meet open-minded Christians, even though I don't share the same philosophical beliefs as them.

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

Very true, but they can survive outside of another person. You're missing that key difference.

So as soon as it would be possible for a pre-born fetus to survive outside its mother, it is should have the protection of the law, correct?

 

[Magic Man]

So as soon as it would be possible for a pre-born fetus to survive outside its mother, it is should have the protection of the law, correct?

Yes, just as it currently does, at least in most areas.

 

[DallasApple]

A born baby cannot survive without the care of someone else. It may be able to survive without it's mother due to formula but it needs someone to care for it. A child needs someone to care for them as well.

A "born" baby is not living inside of another human body for survival.There is no "umbilical cord" attached to one woman who is feeding the chilld with her very own blood.A born "baby" is not taking shelter in one particular human beings body at HER disatvantage.

You have NO right! to tell another human being(a woman) that she will be the food supply and the apartment with plenty of warmth for a "baby" because it bothers you if she doesnt.

OH and if she does?? YOU feed it the "formula" (its about 200 a month)...(just for food)YOU pay for the diapers.. and YOU make sure its safe warm and dry..And has plenty of "stimulus" ..

Dont tell others what to do...

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Yes, just as it currently does, at least in most areas.

Viabilty is the rule for most states.

Love

Dallas

 

[pray4me]

I lost a baby at 5 weeks last year. My BABY had a life, my baby existed, my baby died and I mourned that death. Don't you tell me that my baby wasn't human just so you can justify something.

 

[DarkMaster24]

I'm sorry pray4me, but that doesn't mean that other women shouldn't have the choice to have their baby or be forced to have their baby either. I guess I can't see what your point is...

 

[DallasApple]

I lost a baby at 5 weeks last year. My BABY had a life, my baby existed, my baby died and I mourned that death. Don't you tell me that my baby wasn't human just so you can justify something.

Who is telling you that?

But at 5 weeks it wasnt a "baby".No one said it wasnt human.

Im not trying to "justify anything"..YOU ARE..

No one was trying to FORCE you to have that baby against your will..

Im sorry for your loss..Just dont impose your will on me or any other woman because you had a miscarriage.

Love

DAllas