You're a WHAT!?!

[TheKnight]

All I can say is. If you find yourself in discussion of Halacha, (likely in RF) and you state positions based on Noachide understanding of said laws, you probably should declare that the interpretations are Noachide and not Jewish, or possibly through no fault of your own but simply the uncertainty of that casual observer your interpretation of Noachide Halacha is mistaken for Jewish Halacha. Say about a topic like Shabbat. If someone (who may also be too lazy to state their faith) is Jewish and follows your advice, thinking you're a fellow Jew, that may result in wrong Halacha leading someone astray. This is wordy, I know, but I hope you get the gist of what I mean.

I don't debate halakha that isn't Noahide. Shabbat halakha would be a debate I wouldn't get involved in. And when I do debate halakha, I usually take the Chabad position on it (which is a jewish position), even with Noahide law.

There will be some things you may have to work out on your own, simply because you are able to do things Jews are not. For example, according to many authorities, Noachides are permitted (not required, but permitted) to raise a personal altar to G-d and offer the Korban Olah (totally consumed) sacrifice. Just as you were allowed when the Temple stood. We can't make any sacrifice, but you can go where we are forbidden. There are even more astounding things you can do, according to some.

This is true. There are various Rabbis who have proscribed methods for a Noahide offering a sacrifice. Accoriding to Path of the Righteous Gentile by Chaim Chlorfene and Yakov Rogalsky, there are certain things we must be careful not to do and what not. I think the requirements for a Kosher sacrifice make it almost impossible to make a sacrifice without spending a lot of money. Not to mention the legality of slaughtering an animal for sacrifice in many places.

If I were on a Noahide Court...I would probably take action to prohibit animal sacrifices by Noahides...

 

[NoahideHiker]

Personally I think that because animal sacrifice is but one of some five ways to sacrifice it's a bit impractical. I think we Noachides should, at the the very least, wait until the Jews are about to carry them out for themselves in the Temple. But if we they had the Temple rebuilt we'd ALL be making offerings by then.

 

[Zardoz]

You may have to wait a long time for that, unfortunately. Yes, there are sacrifices other than animal, but I'm no expert on this so can't comment. However, I do remember reading about a Noachide who sacrificed eggs, and felt uplifted. Which is the point of sacrifice, to bring yourself closer to G-d. Not necessarily to atone for sins, which is what many people think. In any event, I quite honestly am a bit jealous of you guys to be able to do this at all

 

[TheKnight]

You may have to wait a long time for that, unfortunately. Yes, there are sacrifices other than animal, but I'm no expert on this so can't comment. However, I do remember reading about a Noachide who sacrificed eggs, and felt uplifted. Which is the point of sacrifice, to bring yourself closer to G-d. Not necessarily to atone for sins, which is what many people think. In any event, I quite honestly am a bit jealous of you guys to be able to do this at all

While I'd love to get closer to God, I just can't see sacrifice as being able to do that...maybe the sacrifice of something that isn't an animal, but eh...who knows.

 

[Zardoz]

I assume since you've read Path of the Righteous Gentile that you understand the reason why Man lost the understanding of sacrifice? It will take effort to bring that back. I'm not saying that the prayers that Jews say in lieu are insufficient but there's something that was very valuable to the Patriarchs, and was lost. Maybe it was very powerful, if done with the right intent.

 

[TheKnight]

Yes, that is probably the case. What is your opinion of the Rambam's suggested diet in Sefer HaMada? I think I'm going to give it a try.

 

[NoahideHiker]

When most people thing of animal sacrifice they cringe but when you look at the secondary function of it it takes on a different light. We kill millions of animals every single day in much more horrible ways than a proper sacrifice is killed. And many of those sacrifices then went on to feed the poor. The Temple was like a huge food co-op.

So, on one hand we have an animal being being killed for no other reason than filling a BBQ for the 4th of July or on the other hand, we have an animal that was humanly slaughtered for the greatness of Hashem and to feed someone else. It's not looking so bad now.

 

[TheKnight]

That's true. Although I'm sure some would debate the humaneness of Schechita (ritual animal slaughter ) it's certainly more humane than current practices...

After having learned of the current animal slaughtering practices, I wonder whether or not a Noahide would be allowed to eat the meat found in most stores (in America)...for one the meat still has blood in it (and we can't eat meat with blood) and often times the animal is not completely dead when they begin to butcher it (which violates the prohibition of eating meat torn from a live animal)...Awareness should certainly be raised concerning it...

 

[NoahideHiker]

That's true. Although I'm sure some would debate the humaneness of Schechita (ritual animal slaughter ) it's certainly more humane than current practices...

After having learned of the current animal slaughtering practices, I wonder whether or not a Noahide would be allowed to eat the meat found in most stores (in America)...for one the meat still has blood in it (and we can't eat meat with blood) and often times the animal is not completely dead when they begin to butcher it (which violates the prohibition of eating meat torn from a live animal)...Awareness should certainly be raised concerning it...

We can eat meat with blood in it. Tractate Sanhedrin, p. 59a and Maimonides' Mishneh Torah, Laws of Kings, 9:10 covers it. And with the more uniformed slaughtering practices the larger slaughter houses use it's very rare an animal is slaughtered before the heart stops. But, if it bothers you and you wish to eat kosher then you can find a source for kosher meats near you and be sure.

 

[Ghostaka]

I have often come across people who, upon finding out about my religion will say something akin to "You're a WHAT!?!"

I am a Noahide. What's that? Well, in essence, Noahides are people who believe in Judaism. They are people (non-Jews) who believe that God gave the Torah to the Jews at Sinai and that the Torah, being God's ultimate wisdom, contains the rules and regulations with which mankind can perfect this world.

In our world, there is a vast amount of diversity. There are different races, different genders etc etc etc. So, the rules are different for each person depending on who they are. The Jews have 613 laws which apply to them, and Noahides have 7 princples (or 66 commandments) that apply to them. And then within those two groups you have divisions for certain positions and for gender.

The Seven Noahide principles are:
1. Belief in God
2. Respect for God
3. Value of human life
4. Vaue of the family structure
5. Value of the property of others
6. Value of all non-human life
7. The pursuit of justice.

In essence, if anyone does/abides by these things then they are considered a religiously observant Noahide.

If you have any questions concerning Noahides (or Othodox/Chassidic Judaism) please feel free to ask.

My good friend, all of the mentioned above is necessary in Islam, Christianity (sort of) and Judaism(?).

Peace be upon you.

 

[TheKnight]

We can eat meat with blood in it. Tractate Sanhedrin, p. 59a and Maimonides' Mishneh Torah, Laws of Kings, 9:10 covers it. And with the more uniformed slaughtering practices the larger slaughter houses use it's very rare an animal is slaughtered before the heart stops. But, if it bothers you and you wish to eat kosher then you can find a source for kosher meats near you and be sure.

It does? I have been told by various Rabbis that we are not allowed to eat meat with blood in it. Genesis 9:4 "Only flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat."

Tanakh w/Rashi

4. But, flesh with its soul, its blood, you shall not eat. ד. אַךְ בָּשָׂר בְּנַפְשׁוֹ דָמוֹ לֹא תֹאכֵלוּ:

flesh with its soul: He prohibited them [to eat] a limb [cut off from] a living creature; i.e., as long as its soul is in it, you shall not eat the flesh. — [from Sanh. ad loc.] [i.e., if the limb is cut from the animal while it is alive, it is forbidden to be eaten even after the animal expires.] בשר בנפשו: אסר להם אבר מן החי, כלומר כל זמן שנפשו בו לא תאכלו הבשר:

with its soul, its blood: As long as its soul is within it. בנפשו דמו: בעוד נפשו בו:

flesh with its soul…you shall not eat: This refers to a limb of a living creature. And also, its blood, you shall not eat-This refers to blood of a living creature. — [from above source] בשר בנפשו לא תאכלו: הרי אבר מן החי ואף בנפשו דמו לא תאכלו, הרי דם מן החי:

Either way, I prefer not to eat meat with blood. I find blood to be disgusting.

 

[Ghostaka]

That's true. Although I'm sure some would debate the humaneness of Schechita (ritual animal slaughter ) it's certainly more humane than current practices...

After having learned of the current animal slaughtering practices, I wonder whether or not a Noahide would be allowed to eat the meat found in most stores (in America)...for one the meat still has blood in it (and we can't eat meat with blood) and often times the animal is not completely dead when they begin to butcher it (which violates the prohibition of eating meat torn from a live animal)...Awareness should certainly be raised concerning it...

He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allāh. But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit], there is no sin upon him. Indeed, Allāh is Forgiving and Merciful. {The Holy Qur'an 2:173}

Very similar (if not exactly the same), no?

Peace be upon you.

 

[TheKnight]

He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allāh. But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit], there is no sin upon him. Indeed, Allāh is Forgiving and Merciful. {The Holy Qur'an 2:173}

Very similar (if not exactly the same), no?

Peace be upon you.

Islam is, by almost all opinions, considered to be fully compatible with the Noahide laws. With Christianity it's a bit more difficult because there are so many different version of Christianity. However, Islam is considered Kosher for Noahides.

So yes, it probably would be somewhat close. In fact, the verse you quoted (or do they call them Surahs in Islam?) is also similar to the fact that while one should not eat blood, one who is forced to do so does not incur guilt.

 

[Ghostaka]

Yeap. I agree with you. There is definitely some diversification.

P.S. In the Qur'an, surahs are chapters and ayas are verses.

Peace be upon you.

 

[NoahideHiker]

It does? I have been told by various Rabbis that we are not allowed to eat meat with blood in it. Genesis 9:4 "Only flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat."

Tanakh w/Rashi

Either way, I prefer not to eat meat with blood. I find blood to be disgusting.

As with all things in Judaism there are four different answers to every question but the consensus is that if an animal is not butchered until after it is dead and stopped moving the blood is permissible to Gentiles. It's a fascinating study and worth delving into.

 

[TheKnight]

As with all things in Judaism there are four different answers to every question but the consensus is that if an animal is not butchered until after it is dead and stopped moving the blood is permissible to Gentiles. It's a fascinating study and worth delving into.

I shall have to look it up...what are the sources for it? (I couldn't find it in Tractate Sanhedrin p59..)

 

[wabisabi]

I think if I believed in YHWH and Jewish beliefs I would definitely choose B'nai Noach over conversion. Being a Jew is hard - too many rules!

 

[sunsplash]

I hope it's ok that I'm bringing back an old thread and that you are still around!

How did you initially come about Noahidism? What sources did you turn to in order to learn more? Have you studied Hebrew?

 

[zenzero]

Friend The Knight,

You're a WHAT!?!

Personal understanding is that each form or no form that exists are all parts of the same energy which is neither created nor destroyed and changes form.

Love & rgds

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I don't know if people are still posting on this thread, but I'll ask anyway. I did some study on the Noahide faith a few years back, and I did have one question. I guess it would depend on the Jewish group, but are Christians and Muslims seen as Noahides? I heard that Reform Jews accept them as Noahides, but other groups, particularly the Orthodox, do not.