Zero probability for Evolution

[Polymath257]

That doesn't make sense. If the universe is explained, would I not be included?

Not what I was saying. The intelligence you claimed made the laws had to be subject to *other* laws or else it wouldn't be able to do anything (only chaos). So, in order to exist at all, there had to be natural laws before that intelligence.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Adaptation of an individual is not evolution. A genetic change allowing for fuller fur would be.

And yes, that can and does happen.

And no, fur changes in an individual are NOT due to photosynthesis. Wow.

You don't know much about fur, obviously. Primeness doesn't come about through cold temps, but through how much Daylight there is.
What triggers the biological change in an animal to start growing their winter coats is a term called photoperiodism. Photoperiodism is defined as the physiological reaction of an organism to the amount of daylight in a 24 hour period. This occurs in both plants and animals and is a driving factor for many biological changes. It is photoperiodism which provokes change in the color and density of fur as well as sexual behavior and hibernation.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Not what I was saying. The intelligence you claimed made the laws had to be subject to *other* laws or else it wouldn't be able to do anything (only chaos). So, in order to exist at all, there had to be natural laws before that intelligence.

Are you just gonna propose that goes on into infinity? Because at some point there has to be a first cause.

 

[Polymath257]

You don't know much about fur, obviously. Primeness doesn't come about through cold temps, but through how much Daylight there is.
What triggers the biological change in an animal to start growing their winter coats is a term called photoperiodism. Photoperiodism is defined as the physiological reaction of an organism to the amount of daylight in a 24 hour period. This occurs in both plants and animals and is a driving factor for many biological changes. It is photoperiodism which provokes change in the color and density of fur as well as sexual behavior and hibernation.

And those are all what happens in a specific individual. That is NOT what evolution is talking about.

Evolution would address the ability to use photoperiodism at al. What genetics allow it to develop and to be initiated in an environment? How do those genetics change over the course of generations? Does the photoperiodism become more or less sensitive to the environment over time?

 

[Polymath257]

Are you just gonna propose that goes on into infinity? Because at some point there has to be a first cause.

I disagree. It is possible the first thing is uncaused. It is possible there is an infinite regress of causes. It is possible there are many things that are uncaused.

What I was saying is that natural laws are prior to intelligences since intelligences have to obey natural laws in order to function. That isn't an infinite regress at all. All it shows is that natural laws are not caused.

 

[Wildswanderer]

And those are all what happens in a specific individual. That is NOT what evolution is talking about.

Evolution would address the ability to use photoperiodism at al. What genetics allow it to develop and to be initiated in an environment?

The ones already built into the DNA.

 

[Polymath257]

The ones already built into the DNA.

And that is the point. If the DNA changes (which it will) and the having one of the changes improve the survival in that environment (which can happen), then the DNA of the next generation will be different than that now. And the difference will be an improved level of adaptation.

That is how evolution happens.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I disagree. It is possible the first thing is uncaused. It is possible there is an infinite regress of causes. It is possible there are many things that are uncaused.

What I was saying is that natural laws are prior to intelligences since intelligences have to obey natural laws in order to function. That isn't an infinite regress at all. All it shows is that natural laws are not caused.

Still doesn't make any sense. What do we experience that is uncaused?
If you want to step outside that framework, you're into beliefs, not science.

 

[Wildswanderer]

And that is the point. If the DNA changes (which it will) and the having one of the changes improve the survival in that environment (which can happen), then the DNA of the next generation will be different than that now. And the difference will be an improved level of adaptation.

That is how evolution happens.

That's simple adaptation. It doesn't change a canine into a feline or vice versa. Nothing new is added, just variations of a kind of animal.

 

[ecco]

There's only two possibilities, accidental or planned.

You gotta love the binary view Chirstians have of all things: Good;Evil, Black;White

Nature is far more complex than that. That may be why Christians avoid it.

 

[Polymath257]

That's simple adaptation. It doesn't change a canine into a feline or vice versa. Nothing new is added, just variations of a kind of animal.

But those variations are just one or two generations. The next generations move the norm further and further away. The large changes happen over many generations. Since there is no natural barrier to said changes, they can add up to give the larger changes we see in the fossil record.

And no, we do not expect a canine to change into a feline or vice versa. if that is your understanding of evolution, you need to learn more about what it really says. Both canines and felines are specialized in their specific directions. And that type of specificity does not reverse. But, *new* changes appear and add up leading to splits in the decent tree and new species.

Evolution is the same as adaptation, only over more generations.

 

[Polymath257]

Still doesn't make any sense. What do we experience that is uncaused?
If you want to step outside that framework, you're into beliefs, not science.

Most quantum level events are uncaused. That most macroscopic events appear to be caused is partly due to the probabilities.

Each roll of a dice may be random. But if you take the average value of the pips over a billion rolls, you will get a reliable number around 3.5. That is a form of order that appears out of randomness. Similar things happen all the time when sextillions of quantum events are averaged to give orderly things like temperature and pressure.

 

[McBell]

You have no explanation for the universe, but you call my claims empty? What does that make yours?

Your claims are empty.
You flat out said so when you stated that you do not "explain" god.


Your flat out lie about not having "no explanation" for the universe is most revealing.
There are actually numerous explanations for the universe.
Many of which you have complained about right here in this very thread.
You not liking them does not make them magically disappear.

 

[McBell]

It just means science will never answer the most important question.

Most important question to you perhaps...

 

[McBell]

Are you just gonna propose that goes on into infinity? Because at some point there has to be a first cause.

Prove it.
And no, "common sense" is not proof, it is as big a cop out as "GodDidIt".

 

[Polymath257]

You don't know much about fur, obviously. Primeness doesn't come about through cold temps, but through how much Daylight there is.
What triggers the biological change in an animal to start growing their winter coats is a term called photoperiodism. Photoperiodism is defined as the physiological reaction of an organism to the amount of daylight in a 24 hour period. This occurs in both plants and animals and is a driving factor for many biological changes. It is photoperiodism which provokes change in the color and density of fur as well as sexual behavior and hibernation.

Photoperiodism =/= photosynthesis

 

[Polymath257]

It's not a double standard. The atheists pretend they have superior knowledge.
They pretend to have an explanation for everything.

point to one atheist that makes such a claim.

 

[Polymath257]

Funny, I don't see anything like that happening now. All I see are minor adaptations.

And how long have you been looking? If it is less than 50,000 years, you shouldn't expect large changes.

 

[Polymath257]

It just means science will never answer the most important question.

Which is?

 

[Wildswanderer]

And no, we do not expect a canine to change into a feline or vice versa. if that is your understanding of evolution, you need to learn more about what it really says. Both canines and felines are specialized in their specific directions.

Then you can't get there. It's impossible. A bovine is still a bovine, a horse is still a horse, a feline is still a feline, etc. And a human is still a human. As he was from the beginning.