Zero Probability of Evolution. Atheism wrong?

[William Orielly]

The likelihood that God did not participate in the creation of the universe is negligible (and likely zero). Why be an Atheist?

Well, think for yourself, no matter how many garbage there is in the landfill, the rhinoceros will not be born there. From lifeless only lifeless comes - scientifically proved by Dr. Pasteur.

To say that the probability of the godless origin of life is 100 percent (because we are alive) is not scientific. This is the so-called "conditional" probability. Unconditional probability is negligible.

I am tryinf

 

[William Orielly]

I am trying to understand your rhinoscerous metaphor... The entire notion that there is a bodiless, faceless entity that cares about us yet allows horrible atrocities to happen is simply ludacris... Why would a god give a crap about who wins the stupidbowl and not care about innocent children starving to death.... Why would he allow a horrible person become a leader or tyrant over entire human populations? Why would he even create evil in the first place??!! And why has he not done anything new or updated any rules or policies or comnandments to reflect modern times? The bible is a disjointed conglomeration of anectdotal stories written by ignorant middle eastern men translated to english from hebrew... WRITTEN BY MEN... not a god.... Why on earth would we listen to or follow ANYTHING written by such clueless societle outcasts?? and why on earth do you need a book to tell you what is right and wrong?? Can you not understand those concepts on your own... Why did god commit genocide on the entire earth because of a handful of people in sodom and gahmora? Did all those innocent children and animals really need to drown?? None of it adds up... Its all way to ridiculous to even entertain the notion... A god that would do that is EVIL pain and simple.... If he loves us so much and is so good why do we need to fear him?? Sorry folks... Yer barkin up the wrong tree....

 

[Revoltingest]

Atheists reject the idea of sin, It's a religious concept.

Many of us have the analogous concepts of "wrong", "bad" & "evil".
And even "sin"....but it's more about guilty pleasure, ie, societal
disapproval heightening enjoyment.

 

[ChristineM]

Many of us have the analogous concepts of "wrong", "bad" & "evil".
And even "sin"....but it's more about guilty pleasure, ie, societal
disapproval heightening enjoyment.

Seems to me wrong and bad are actions that go against human morality* whereas sin is an action that goes against a religious code more/morality.

To many religious i am a sinner because i don't bow to there particular deity, or follow a certain code of conduct (that i may even find objectionable). In non religious terms, such actions are irrelevant.

* substitute morality for guilty pleasure/societal disapproval if required

 

[Audie]

What a sinner I am! According to to Moslems, I am to
be hung by my hair in eternal fire, for lo. I have tempted men to
Sinful thoughts by going about with my hair uncovered.

 

[BilliardsBall]

This answer was predicted by another poster. At least you didn't disappoint. All believers KNOW that talking animals, miracles, Gods, resurrecting the dead, myths and superstitions, are not only man-made stories, but also unfalsifiable. They know that parts of the Bible are errant, inconsistent, immoral and cruel, unscientific and primitive, and certainly not consistent with the words of a God. If they don't, they should have "EASY MARK" witten on the back of their shirt. This is why they will avoid offering any evidence specific to their belief. There are so many ways a believer can provide evidence. Prove that the power of prayer works. Demonstrate that at least one of thousands of miracle is real. Demonstrate at least one thing that has been resurrected, or is immortal(other than the humble jellyfish). Demonstrate at least one thing that has a supernatural reference(ghosts, fairies, dragons, spirits, etc.), and scientifically exists. This never happens.

If you simply believe that some supernatural multi-dimensional father figure, exists with powers far greater than mortal man, fine. If you want to believe that this super daddy will look after you, and guide you in life and in death, that is also fine. Since this is only your belief, no evidence of any kind is required. So why all this silly, dishonest, intellectual BS, to infer that your belief is real? Not only do you think your belief is real to you, but you arrogantly believe that it should be real to everyone else? Why do you need to infect the healthy, pristine, and inquisitive minds of those that are the most vulnerable(children, handicap, sick, desperate, and the poor)? We all have our own personal beliefs. We just keep them to ourselves, especially if they need to invoke the the supernatural card. It is believers that must shift the burden of proof and demand that others prove that their version of reality, is the only possible version. It is believers who must eventually deny, or ignore, all physical laws governing our physical reality. Non-believers have no need to use fallacies, misrepresentations, distortions, make-believe, scripture, avoidance and deflections, as the basis for their arguments. Non-believers are essentially arguing with themselves, when arguing with believers. All we can do is expose the folly of their self-serving logic. The mind is truly a terrible thing to waste. Don

I was appropriate in my remark, since many, MANY times, the same posters have claimed that I lie when I give my personal testimony. It's called personal because it's meaningful to me.

 

[BilliardsBall]

You claim that you have a personal relationship with a God. So let me ask you, do you claim that you KNOW that your God is real and exists, or do you just BELIEVE that your God is real and exists? If you only believe this to be true, then lets move on to the second question. Do you think that the government should enact new laws, to protect our children and other vulnerable members of society, from the unfounded, uncertain, and illogical beliefs-claims, by well-intentioned believers incapable of critical thinking?

Since you avoided and deflected all my other questions, maybe asking only two will keep it simple. Personally I only expect MOTSS. Don

I'm happy to answer your question. I try to have a rationalist mindset as well as be practical. I don't put energy toward investing in things I believe that remain unknown/theoretical. I know Jesus Christ, I would say, for multiple reasons. Some that come to mind:

*The Bible seems to be written by honest people
*Prayers are answered/tithing and giving is responded to
*My marriage and children are strong and well, holistically
*Despite thinking about it OFTEN, I can't come up with a single Bible law or precept that betters me or anyone if it is disobeyed
*The born agains I know have similar testimonies, and are more happy than others I know
*I've thought through other religions
Etc.

 

[Revoltingest]

I was appropriate in my remark, since many, MANY times, the same posters have claimed that I lie when I give my personal testimony. It's called personal because it's meaningful to me.

I don't think you lie.
But I do say you're "yellow".
(It's the avatar.)

Hey, you're a fellow yellow fellow!

 

[BilliardsBall]

Except, once again, we can independently verify the effect of those things. If multiple lines of inquiry converge, it leads to an increased understanding of objective reality. Where God is concerned, the lines of inquiry don't converge - they diverge wildly depending on time, culture and personal perspective, just like any myth.


That's just a nonsensical non-sequitur.

I think we're hitting on your exact concern. Say Jesus is real. Then Islam would be false because it says Jesus isn't the Son of God. Or vice versa, if you wish--Islam being real invalidates the Christian faith. Therefore, we would expect a wide divergence of belief and effects when we're sorting true and false gods. Do you follow me here?

 

[Revoltingest]

What a sinner I am! According to to Moslems, I am to
be hung by my hair in eternal fire, for lo. I have tempted men to
Sinful thoughts by going about with my hair uncovered.

In Revoltifarianism, you'd be considered virtuous.
While we don't offer Heaven in the afterlife, we do have bacon in this life.

 

[BilliardsBall]

To pray to a particular god just in case it exists doesn't seem productive.
Would I have to pray to every god who could exist, eg, Odin, Zeus, Allah?
But if I pray to all, would the true one(s) object, & punish me?
Should I roll the dice & pick just one, eg, FSM?

It seems silly that a supreme being who denies us evidence of its existence would.....
- Care what this lowly critter's opinion of it is.
- Expect telepathic expression of my devotion.
- Punish me for not obeying one of all the mixed messages of various scriptures on the market.

Let's be logical. Say we can narrow it down to twelve gods, since there are only about 12 major religious texts, ever, that claim authenticity, fulfilled prophecy, etc. I would think praying "God, if you exist, and you're of these, or none of these, but want to touch base with me, I'm open, not closed," would be better than saying "I'll have a relationship with you maybe, but you'll have to jump through hoops to get to me."

 

[BilliardsBall]

You're only nicer cuz you're threatened
with eternal torture if you're not.
But when we're nice, it's sincere.

Caution:
The above should be read with mirth.

Being nice should come from a place of love. Christ has reformed to be more of a loving person. I'm pleased by that.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I think we're hitting on your exact concern. Say Jesus is real. Then Islam would be false because it says Jesus isn't the Son of God. Or vice versa, if you wish--Islam being real invalidates the Christian faith. Therefore, we would expect a wide divergence of belief and effects when we're sorting true and false gods. Do you follow me here?

To an extent, sure. But it could just as easily be argued that there is some truth and some falsity in all religion. For example, it could be true that Jesus isn't the literal son of God, but the bulk of the rest of Christianity could still be true, and it's also true that even if Jesus were the son of God, the bulk of Islam could also still be true. The question is how do we determine what is true and what is false?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Then what *is*? How about 'if you are out there, please send a signal that I can understand'?

And it is clear that you are so convinced of your myth that you are willing to claim someone is lying about their experiences merely because they disagree with you.

Not at all! I just felt like repaying in kind for a change, since I grow weary of being told I'm lying every time I hit a sweet spot!

Did you give God a time limit when you asked for a signal? And how do you know that God's response to your prayer cannot become "Listen to Billiards Ball!"

After all, the NT says God has chosen "the foolishness of preaching" to save the stubborn.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Can you even once make an argument that doesn't sound like wishful thinking? I honestly am not surprised that you don't find the tone of some of your messages insulting. You're the kind of person who only perceives fault in others.



Not to mention his own argument hinges on his personal experiences. He expects us to hold his experiences as valid as a scientific theory. But other peoples' experiences can be hand waved just like that whenever he feels like it.

Im not sure what BB's place is in the forums but I know one thing: He makes those around him look better. I'm sure that's a benefit.

No, revoltingest admitted Christians are nicer, but ascribed to our fear of eternal torture.

 

[BilliardsBall]

If those Christians actually believe in the Bible they would have to believe in the existence of many gods and be polytheists. The Bible’s Many Gods | Gerald McDermott Do you believe in the Bible and are a polytheist or are you a monotheist?

Hold the phone! Are you saying that if Christianity were the sole religion in the world, you would accept it?

 

[BilliardsBall]

What? You mean not believing in god i a sin? Maybe by your interpretation which appears to be somewhat suspect or you are dreaming?

No, I meant like lying, infidelity, lack of commitment, etc.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Show me where i said I feel X, so X is real. In fact i said some thing completely different regarding weighing, measuring etc?

If you don't remember what you posted, why I should go backward through six posts?

But if you wish to goalpost shift to weights, you "seem to feel" (pun not intended) that if something goes on a scale it's "real", yet you never stated how you know you or me or anything is "real".

Still waiting!

 

[Revoltingest]

Let's be logical.

I try.

Say we can narrow it down to twelve gods, since there are only about 12 major religious texts, ever, that claim authenticity, fulfilled prophecy, etc. I would think praying "God, if you exist, and you're of these, or none of these, but want to touch base with me, I'm open, not closed," would be better than saying "I'll have a relationship with you maybe, but you'll have to jump through hoops to get to me."

Looking at it logically, if a god requires prayer from us, but doesn't tell us it exists, or which one
it is, they broad minded people seeking the true god would lack confidence in their choice.
But this wouldn't appear to be satisfying the god who requires worship of it, & not the false gods.

 

[Revoltingest]

Being nice should come from a place of love. Christ has reformed to be more of a loving person. I'm pleased by that.

I see a whole lot'a non-love coming from various Xians.
And I've been personally subject to imprecatory prayer.
(God will get me for not giving tenants things they want,
but aren't entitled to. Nice threat, eh.)
So when I meet nice people, I just assume they're naturally
that way....not forced to be so by scripture.