Zero Probability of Evolution. Atheism wrong?

[Audie]

Atheism is really much simper than all of this. I was raised in a home
where there was no trace of religion. So why would it be an issue for me?

All this labeling and defining is really tiresome, it being
set forth from the pov of a "believer", and put in negative terms. "Agnostic weak atheist"?

I might as well define others in terms of their concern with football in
Mozambique, the default being to be a great believer. Such people might ask-

"Are you an a-footballist???"

or wonder

An agnostic Mozambiquean footballist who is not sure if there is such a thing?

What positive name could one give to someone who just has no interest
in speculation about t he behaviour of players, and the rules of game not know to exist?

 

[jonathan180iq]

The likelihood that God did not participate in the creation of the universe is negligible (and likely zero). Why be an Atheist?

The likelihood that an infinitely complex Creator deity exists but is not discernible from natural phenomenon is negligible (and likely zero). Why be a Theist?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Actually you brought it up, i just countered with facts..

The facts that Christians are more likely to end a marriage than any other

You were determined to diss atheist by using sin as your sticks and stones. It failed because you didn't research your claim and hence don't know what you are talking about.

The fact is atheists will end a marriage because of non-biblical reasons.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Tsk tsk, just making things up and pointing fingers wildly.

Tot ally ignorant of the facts.



Atheists Are 0.07% of the Federal Prison Population, Threatening Fact for Christian Fundamentalists

Atheists Are 0.07% of the Federal Prison Population, Threatening Fact for Christian Fundamentalists
It's a big disruption to the Christian right argument that you need a belief in God to live morally.


Atheists/Atheism and Divorce Rates/ Statistics Vs. Christians


ATHEISM AND DIVORCE

Very little else has produced as much euphoria in atheists than Christian researcher, George Barna's announcement that Born Again and other Christians have a very high rate of divorce, while atheists have the lowest rate. The divorce rates they published were the following: Jews: 30%; Born Again Christians: 27%; other Christians: 24% -- atheists only 21%. [1]


Definition of bigot
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

Atheists have a low rate of divorce because they have a low rate of marriage and a low rate of committing to legal marriage.

Of course, the prison population all thinks they're born again now, atheism isn't really a trump card at parole time!

 

[BilliardsBall]

When I was a teenager, I believe in Jesus, and didn’t question the bible, or the “prophecies” that the gospel authors (eg gospel of Matthew) quoted from the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament), but studies in college, and works took priority and my attention, before I baptised, then I didn’t touch the bible for nearly 15 years.

But despite my 15-year hiatus from the bible and church, I was a believer until I have picked up the bible again.

When I have reread the bible in 2000, including those so-called “prophecies” of Jesus, I came to realisation that the authors interpretations of the gospels are faulty, and the church teachings about those Christian versions of the messianic prophecies to be also based on faulty interpretations, using false premises - the premise that they believe Jesus is the one the OT prophecise.

Being older had the opposite effect to your experiences, it made me more skeptic not only because of the church teachings and scriptural interpretations, but the whole stance of Christianity.

When I was younger, I didn’t have enough experience to question the bible or church teachings, and made me rethink what churches have been teaching me.

It has now been 18 years, I am glad that I didn’t go through converting, and I am still an agnostic.

And being here, in this forum, meeting different Christians, I see that I have made with some friends whom I like, but others just prove to me not all Christians are honest, especially these so-called creationists.

So, you were religious and now you're not. I've never seen a testimony, "I had a relationship with God and now I don't."

There's nothing wrong with thinking/re-thinking. What is your understanding of this prophecy? Prophecy Fulfilled: Israel Becomes A Nation In 1948

 

[BilliardsBall]

What about the Book of Tobin, the Book of Wisdom, the Book of Judith, just to name a few books left out of the KJV of the Bible(OT). Please look at this site, and then tell me again that Religious laws are meant to liberate us from anything including our independence and our illusion of free will. 613 commandments - Wikipedia .

We are not talking about the compelling nature of novels or the mannerisms of ladies and gentlemen of the past. We are talking about patterning your entire way of life, based on a 2700 year old book of instructions. I love the Klingons in Star Trek, but I don't pattern my life being immersed in that persona. Enjoy the Bible for what it is. A Book that is meant to give hope, when there was no hope. A Book that is full of compelling stories, myths, wisdom, and parables. A Book that is meant to promote a certain behavior in the majority. And, a Book that is meant to supplant death with the promise of everlasting life. I never said that the Bible was invalid. It certainly was written and exists. But, from the Bronze Age to the Big Data Age, it has not changed? Don

Good questions. I've read the apocrypha and can see it's different than the Bible. Was that your experience after you read both?

The Bible hasn't changed since way back when. I read modern versions that are translated to English straight from Greek and Latin.

But I'm trying to follow your logic and am struggling, perhaps you can help me. It sounds like you are saying above, "We cannot live our life by centuries old documents." Should Americans reject the Constitution and Bill of Rights?

 

[BilliardsBall]

It doesn't matter whether you've met them or not. The fact that God deliberately holds the door open for such a situation to occur is an absolute demonstration that the Christian form of morality that you describe is not a moral system at all.


This sort of false equivalence is ridiculous. We aren't talking about people "saying horrible things" and then "giving them a hug if they repent". We're talking about a system of morality that ultimately doesn't care if you spend YOUR ENTIRE LIFE raping and murdering - you're still entitled to eternal reward provided you repent at exactly the right moment before death, while people who spent their entire life being kind, generous and loving are doomed to eternal punishment simply for believing the wrong thing or not having the opportunity to repent.

That is not a moral system. To use your analogy, imagine your child murdering and raping throughout their entire life, then just as they are about to be sentenced to life in prison they come crying to you and you tell them you forgive them - and because you forgave them, they have to release them from prison and never try them for any of their crimes ever again.

Does that sound like justice to you?

Help me understand, then, who should go to Hell? Lifelong rapists? Is that justice to you? I'm trying to follow your concept of justice here, sincerely. Who should go to Hell and who to Heaven, do you think, if these places exist (hyopthetically speaking).

 

[jonathan180iq]

Creationists reject Evolution as an explanation for life forming and adapting over long periods of time because it doesn't coincide with their Biblical narrative. They'll even go to great lengths to defend this position by making regurgitated arguments about how certain things in Biology are "impossible", despite their obvious lack of education in the field. Yet in the same breath, they'll accept a type of Super Evolution™ which must have occurred after the deluge of Noah to account for the present level of speciation on planet...

I'm not sure why anyone takes any of it seriously anymore.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Help me understand, then, who should go to Hell?

In my opinion, nobody. I find the concept of hell inherently immoral. But if people have to go there, then I would say it would only be people who did incredible harm to others for their own selfish ends and never actually made up for it in any practical way.

I'm trying to follow your concept of justice here, sincerely. Who should go to Hell and who to Heaven, do you think, if these places exist (hyopthetically speaking).

Covered above. The point isn't who I believe should go there, the point is that YOU believe in a system of morality that can reward a lifelong child rapist and punish a kind, generous, charitable person purely on the fact of whether or not they repented on their deathbed to the right God.

Again, I'll ask you, is that just? Is it just to completely absolve an individual of a lifetime of harm and selfishness just because they sincerely repented, while allowing others who have lived entirely selfless lives to be punished eternally for not repenting (or for repenting to the wrong God)?

Simple question. Yes or no?

 

[ChristineM]

The fact is atheists will end a marriage because of non-biblical reasons.

Oh wow, that's an earth shattering conclusion

The fact is, more Christians divorce, some for biblical reasons.

 

[ChristineM]

Atheists have a low rate of divorce because they have a low rate of marriage and a low rate of committing to legal marriage.

Of course, the prison population all thinks they're born again now, atheism isn't really a trump card at parole time!

Divorce requires the the couple are legally married, the statistics only count legitimate divorces.

Doesnt matter how you squirm and make excuses, the facts are published. You brought up divorce as a comparison, now be a man and accept the conclusions of the statistics.

Also not true although a statistically insignificant few prisoners become Christian in jail the majority are already Christian

 

[Audie]

Divorce requires the the couple are legally married, the statistics only count legitimate divorces.

Doesnt matter how you squirm and make excuses, the facts are published. You brought is divorce as a comparison, now be a man and accept the conclusions of the statistics.

Also not true although a statistically insignificant few prisoners become Christian in jail the majority are already Christian

It is kinda childish to squirm and make excuses, but, there it is

 

[SkepticThinker]

I've never met any person--or even heard of any such person--who said, "Gonna rape and kill and steal then love Jesus at the last minute, man . . . "

My children could say horrible things to me for 50 years, then repent, and I'd give them a hug. Why should you say God wouldn't do this for His own children?

I've actually met people who have said that without God they would be free to murder, rape and pillage because they wouldn't have anyone to be held accountable to. Such sentiments I find truly frightening.

 

[Shad]

The fact is atheists will end a marriage because of non-biblical reasons.

Really?

 

[SkepticThinker]

This page, which I'd not yet shared with you, will help: Prophecy Fulfilled: Israel Becomes A Nation In 1948

We've already discussed this. You told me that the prophecy contains the exact date that Israel would become a nation. Turns out, it actually doesn't.

It's nothing more than a self-fulfilling prophecy carried out by men trying to make it happen.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Your 16% includes Agnostic and atheist. Agnostic isn't atheist. So your 16% quote is already thrown out. Feel free to Google more.

Agnostics are often atheists. I am an agnostic-atheist.

 

[Altfish]

Help me understand, then, who should go to Hell? Lifelong rapists? Is that justice to you? I'm trying to follow your concept of justice here, sincerely. Who should go to Hell and who to Heaven, do you think, if these places exist (hyopthetically speaking).

If Hell exists then no one should go there, even mass murderers and serial rapists do no deserve to be treated with 'eternal fire'.
Heaven does sound awful too. If by some fluke I qualified for entry, I wouldn't want to go to a place with only goody goodies and nice lovely people, How boring! Give me rock stars, rascals, occasional drunks, revolutionaries, etc.

 

[ChristineM]

If Hell exists then no one should go there, even mass murderers and serial rapists do no deserve to be treated with 'eternal fire'.
Heaven does sound awful too. If by some fluke I qualified for entry, I wouldn't want to go to a place with only goody goodies and nice lovely people, How boring! Give me rock stars, rascals, occasional drunks, revolutionaries, etc.

I too would not relish an eternity in such a heaven as dreamed about by Christians

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I've actually met people who have said that without God they would be free to murder, rape and pillage because they wouldn't have anyone to be held accountable to. Such sentiments I find truly frightening.

• "Atheist are routinely asked how people will know not to rape and murder without religion telling them not to do it, especially a religion that backs up the orders with threats of hell. Believers, listen to me carefully when I say this: When you use this argument, you terrify atheists. We hear you saying that the only thing standing between you and Ted Bundy is a flimsy belief in a supernatural being made up by pre-literate people trying to figure out where the rain came from. This is not very reassuring if you're trying to argue from a position of moral superiority." - Amanda Marcotte

I too would not relish an eternity in such a heaven as dreamed about by Christians

• "Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company." - Mark Twain

 

[ChristineM]

• "Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company." - Mark Twain

Even the imagined climate is not for me, a good storm now and again to blow the cobwebs out, a bit of frost to kill off the larvae helps the root veg.