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Was Islam spread by the sword?
- Thread starter ZooGirl02
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gnostic
The Lost One
Muslims have been taking land that belong to them since Muhammad, and they think it is their bloody birthright. So don't give this crap about Muslims not invading or conquering lands. They did so on peninsula, and after Muhammad's death, they attacked Syria and Persia, and claimed these lands as their own. They went all the way to Spain and India, and took lands as if they owned it.
Just because in some countries, people convert freely to Islam and I don't deny this, BUT that doesn't mean there were no wars, no invasions and no conquests in Islam's history, in which they took as their own.
Some of these terrorists and even non-terrorist Muslims want to go back to the days when Muslims were the leaders, when there were Islamic empires. Well, this can happen, but not without spilling a lot of blood.
Muhammad's time as prophet wasn't a bloodless one.
In fact, he is no better than a petty warlord, who started his prophethood in Medina as brigand in which he lead his fellow-believers in robbing merchant caravans. This is act of banditry or piracy. Whether you take only ONE item in loot, or one-fifth or one-tenth or all of it, plundering and looting are still STEALING. And the Qur'an enshrine a loophole to sin of stealing, by calling it the share of plunder of fifth.
And he doesn't always follow this own rule that he taught his followers. When he banished the Banu Qaynuqa from Medina, he and his people didn't just take a fifth, he took everything that the Qaynupa couldn't carry with them, another example, of Muhammad and Muslims robbing people.
He is a tyrant in Medina, when he banished whole tribes from Medina, and treating their reactions to his decision as treason; he sounds pretty much like a lot of dictators in Africa and the Middle East of the 20th century. He doesn't tolerate other people's religion, in which he order destruction of idols in Mecca and other parts of the Arabian peninsula.
It is claim that Muhammad had to leave Mecca, because of attempts of assassination. Then why didn't arrest or imprison assassination for a couple of Jews writing satire poems about him? If people trying to assassinate him is wrong, then Muhammad approving assassinations of others should also be considered wrong. Double-standard exist with Muhammad and his Muslim followers.
Which is worse, a satire or a murder?
The murders committed after the incidence of Danish cartoons drawing of Muhammad is just a repeat of what happened when Muhammad approved of the assassination committed on his behalf, except the Syrian Christian nun had nothing to do with the Danish cartoons.
You have of the expression "Two wrongs don't make it right", haven't you?
gnostic
The Lost One
Again, that's bull.
Muhammad's home was really Mecca, not Medina, and yet Muhammad had the nerve to banished Jews that were living in Medina longer than has. That taking land that don't belong to him, just because they wouldn't accept him as a "prophet", is taking revenge. Muhammad is petty, when he is being slighted.
He condoned murdered when someone wrote a satire about him. When does people writing poem ever justify assassination.
gnostic
The Lost One
You being biased, is not an insult. Being biased is how one judge thing partially without considering all sides.
You being ignorant, is when (A) you didn't understand the subject, but refused to learn when you are wrong, or (B) you cannot learn because you are being biased.
You want me to say you're not being ignorant or biased, then learn or understand instead of making ridiculous claims that you have been making.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
For example:
Spread of Islam in the Bahamas:
Bahamas
Country in the Caribbean
The Bahamas is a coral-based archipelago in the Atlantic Ocean, comprising 700 islands and cays that range from uninhabited to resort-packed. The northernmost, Grand Bahama, and Paradise Island, home to the sprawling Atlantis resort, are among the best known. Scuba diving and snorkeling sites include the massive Andros Barrier Reef, Thunderball Grotto (of James Bond fame) and the black-coral gardens off Bimini.
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=location of the bahamas
Religion in the Bahamas reflects the country's diversity.[1] The Bahamas are mainly Protestant Christian.[1] More than 91 percent of the population of the Bahamas professes a religion, and anecdotal evidence suggests that most attend services regularly.[1]
Protestant Christian denominations including Baptists (35 percent), Anglicans (15 percent), Pentecostals (8 percent), Church of God (5 percent), Seventh-day Adventists (5 percent), andMethodists (4 percent).[1] Although many unaffiliated Protestant congregations are almost exclusively black, most mainstream churches are integrated racially.[1]
There are significant Roman Catholic (14 percent) and Greek Orthodox populations.[1]
Smaller Jewish, Baha'i, Jehovah's Witness and Muslim communities also are active.[1] A small number of Bahamians and Haitians, particularly those living in the Family Islands, practiceObeah, a form of African shamanism.[1]
A small number of citizens identify themselves as Rastafarians.[1] Some members of the small resident Guyanese and Indian populations practice Hinduism and other South Asian religions.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Bahamas
Introduction
Vacationing in the Bahamas, who would have thought that there are Muslims living in nice neighborhoods with a beautiful mosque. There are more than 300 Muslims in Nassau, Bahamas who are organized and have five daily prayers. Islam has come to the Bahamas more than 40 years ago via United States.
History
Which country is closest to Miami? It is the Bahamas, only 40 miles from Miami to the east while Cuba is 80 miles to the south. The Bahamas consists of more than 700 islands, well known for their gorgeous beaches, sea of colors, vivid flamingoes, and Poinciana trees that line the edge of roads and tantalize the senses with their fragrant aromas. Christopher Columbus discovered it on October 12, 1492 and named it Bahamas (low water or sea). The British have controlled it until the Bahamians achieved their independence on July 10, 1973. The thirteen colonies fought the British and won the island for few years but at the treaty of Versailles in 1783, the British traded Florida for the Bahamas.
Economy
Nassau, the capital, is the queen of archipelago, most densely populated consisting of two thirds of total population of 342,000. Eighty five percent of people are of African descent with literacy rate of 95 percent. City of Nassau is decorated with architecture of British, Spanish, Indian, Chinese and flavor of southern US. In 2008, 4.6 million people visited Bahamas, 85 percent from the USA. Its economy thrives on four areas for income: tourism, fishing, banking, and farming. The Bahamas, because of it strict secrecy laws, is called the “Switzerland of the West.†It has no income tax, sales tax, capital gain tax, estate tax, or inheritance tax. The nation’s stable government and economy as well as its proximity to the U.S. make it one of the most attractive areas for investors all over the world. There are 110 US affiliated businesses operating in the Bahamas, mostly in tourism and banking.
Coming of Islam
According to the old records, some of the early Muslims were brought as slaves from North Africa. In the 1960’s a Bahamian called Bashan Saladin (formerly Charles Cleare) preached Islam and converted his home into Mosque. In 1974, Dr. Munir Ahmad who returned from US as Dental Specialist and Mr. Mustafa khalil Khalfani joined hand to establish Islam. They were later joined by Br. Faisal AbdurRahmaan Hepburn. There is only one central college in Nassau and no large university. For all higher education, the Bahamians must travel to the United States. After independence, many Bahamians converted to Islam while studying in the US. Everyone you meet has connection to the US. There are many South Asian Muslims from India, Bangladesh, and Pakistan, as well as Turkey and Guyana totaling to 20-30 people working as doctors, businessmen and teachers that visit the mosque.
Community Development
There are many Muslims from India, Pakistan and other countries that have helped develop this community. In 1978 when Jamaat-Ul-Islam, the Revolutionary Islamic Movement, was formed and Br. Mustapha Khalil Khalafani was chosen as its leader. The Muslims established Jamaat- Ul-Islam Mosque in Nassau runned by Jamaat Management Consultancy Limited owned by Brother Faisal Abdurrahman Hepburn.
The Mosque
The Mosque rests on two acres of land, white in color with three domes (one large and two small) and one tall minaret. It is surrounded by newly planted trees, a colorful courtyard and a parking lot. Women area is separated by a perforated wooden partisan. The five daily prayers are performed punctually in congregation. Over 60 people attend the Friday sermon and prayer. Other activities include brothers and sisters study circle as well as children’s Sunday school.
Conclusion
Islam in Nassau is growing with strong foundation for increasing the Dawa work in the area. Muslims are being ignored or marginalized in many ways, because of being a very small minority(less than 1% of the population). For example, the media refuse to air positive Islamic program and local newspapers are reluctant to cover events relating to Islam and Muslims. They are still facing problems in carrying on their activities. They could use some help and attention from US Muslims in order to energize their work. Muslims in the U. S. including doctors, engineers etc. can contribute by devoting their 1-2 week of vacation per year while doing seminars on Islam or having free medical clinics while still enjoying the scenery. The entire area is conducive to Dawa work due to high literacy, good command of English language, respect for people from US in general and religious background. The US national organizations of Muslims have special obligation to reach out and extend a helping hand. Any cooperation and coordinated activity will go a long way in establishing Islam in this part of the world.
http://muslimobserver.com/islam-in-the-bahamas/
I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in the Bahamas.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards
No.
For example:
Spread of Islam in the Bahamas:
Bahamas
Country in the Caribbean
The Bahamas is a coral-based archipelago in the Atlantic Ocean, comprising 700 islands and cays that range from uninhabited to resort-packed. The northernmost, Grand Bahama, and Paradise Island, home to the sprawling Atlantis resort, are among the best known. Scuba diving and snorkeling sites include the massive Andros Barrier Reef, Thunderball Grotto (of James Bond fame) and the black-coral gardens off Bimini.
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=location of the bahamas
Religion in the Bahamas reflects the country's diversity.[1] The Bahamas are mainly Protestant Christian.[1] More than 91 percent of the population of the Bahamas professes a religion, and anecdotal evidence suggests that most attend services regularly.[1]
Protestant Christian denominations including Baptists (35 percent), Anglicans (15 percent), Pentecostals (8 percent), Church of God (5 percent), Seventh-day Adventists (5 percent), andMethodists (4 percent).[1] Although many unaffiliated Protestant congregations are almost exclusively black, most mainstream churches are integrated racially.[1]
There are significant Roman Catholic (14 percent) and Greek Orthodox populations.[1]
Smaller Jewish, Baha'i, Jehovah's Witness and Muslim communities also are active.[1] A small number of Bahamians and Haitians, particularly those living in the Family Islands, practiceObeah, a form of African shamanism.[1]
A small number of citizens identify themselves as Rastafarians.[1] Some members of the small resident Guyanese and Indian populations practice Hinduism and other South Asian religions.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Bahamas
Introduction
Vacationing in the Bahamas, who would have thought that there are Muslims living in nice neighborhoods with a beautiful mosque. There are more than 300 Muslims in Nassau, Bahamas who are organized and have five daily prayers. Islam has come to the Bahamas more than 40 years ago via United States.
History
Which country is closest to Miami? It is the Bahamas, only 40 miles from Miami to the east while Cuba is 80 miles to the south. The Bahamas consists of more than 700 islands, well known for their gorgeous beaches, sea of colors, vivid flamingoes, and Poinciana trees that line the edge of roads and tantalize the senses with their fragrant aromas. Christopher Columbus discovered it on October 12, 1492 and named it Bahamas (low water or sea). The British have controlled it until the Bahamians achieved their independence on July 10, 1973. The thirteen colonies fought the British and won the island for few years but at the treaty of Versailles in 1783, the British traded Florida for the Bahamas.
Economy
Nassau, the capital, is the queen of archipelago, most densely populated consisting of two thirds of total population of 342,000. Eighty five percent of people are of African descent with literacy rate of 95 percent. City of Nassau is decorated with architecture of British, Spanish, Indian, Chinese and flavor of southern US. In 2008, 4.6 million people visited Bahamas, 85 percent from the USA. Its economy thrives on four areas for income: tourism, fishing, banking, and farming. The Bahamas, because of it strict secrecy laws, is called the “Switzerland of the West.†It has no income tax, sales tax, capital gain tax, estate tax, or inheritance tax. The nation’s stable government and economy as well as its proximity to the U.S. make it one of the most attractive areas for investors all over the world. There are 110 US affiliated businesses operating in the Bahamas, mostly in tourism and banking.
Coming of Islam
According to the old records, some of the early Muslims were brought as slaves from North Africa. In the 1960’s a Bahamian called Bashan Saladin (formerly Charles Cleare) preached Islam and converted his home into Mosque. In 1974, Dr. Munir Ahmad who returned from US as Dental Specialist and Mr. Mustafa khalil Khalfani joined hand to establish Islam. They were later joined by Br. Faisal AbdurRahmaan Hepburn. There is only one central college in Nassau and no large university. For all higher education, the Bahamians must travel to the United States. After independence, many Bahamians converted to Islam while studying in the US. Everyone you meet has connection to the US. There are many South Asian Muslims from India, Bangladesh, and Pakistan, as well as Turkey and Guyana totaling to 20-30 people working as doctors, businessmen and teachers that visit the mosque.
Community Development
There are many Muslims from India, Pakistan and other countries that have helped develop this community. In 1978 when Jamaat-Ul-Islam, the Revolutionary Islamic Movement, was formed and Br. Mustapha Khalil Khalafani was chosen as its leader. The Muslims established Jamaat- Ul-Islam Mosque in Nassau runned by Jamaat Management Consultancy Limited owned by Brother Faisal Abdurrahman Hepburn.
The Mosque
The Mosque rests on two acres of land, white in color with three domes (one large and two small) and one tall minaret. It is surrounded by newly planted trees, a colorful courtyard and a parking lot. Women area is separated by a perforated wooden partisan. The five daily prayers are performed punctually in congregation. Over 60 people attend the Friday sermon and prayer. Other activities include brothers and sisters study circle as well as children’s Sunday school.
Conclusion
Islam in Nassau is growing with strong foundation for increasing the Dawa work in the area. Muslims are being ignored or marginalized in many ways, because of being a very small minority(less than 1% of the population). For example, the media refuse to air positive Islamic program and local newspapers are reluctant to cover events relating to Islam and Muslims. They are still facing problems in carrying on their activities. They could use some help and attention from US Muslims in order to energize their work. Muslims in the U. S. including doctors, engineers etc. can contribute by devoting their 1-2 week of vacation per year while doing seminars on Islam or having free medical clinics while still enjoying the scenery. The entire area is conducive to Dawa work due to high literacy, good command of English language, respect for people from US in general and religious background. The US national organizations of Muslims have special obligation to reach out and extend a helping hand. Any cooperation and coordinated activity will go a long way in establishing Islam in this part of the world.
http://muslimobserver.com/islam-in-the-bahamas/
I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in the Bahamas.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards
Yes Islam came by the sword but think about it for a second. When Islam came to India, they were considered liberators. Islam banished the caste system (which was reinstated by the british in the early 1800s) and made everyone equal.
Indeed it was. And it's wrong; at least by today's standards.
As Christianity was spread at the point of a sword.
Just ask any native American. (as well as many native cultures.)
Yes its a fact no doubt about it but the notion here is that anything spread by the sword is considered bad, is that true or false?
I believe bad. It's wrong to force culture, religion, politics, etc. on people that
don't want it.
Would you consider Islamic conquest of India which liberated people from the dominant unfair caste system to everyone equal system a bad thing? Them people living in India at the time considered Islam as a liberator in fact.
Who am I to say? The people liberated were satisfied, so good 'nuff.
Evidently in this case the people of India wanted liberated.
One wonders though why Islam is not the predominant religion in Hindu India?
http://adaniel.tripod.com/hinduism.htm
Hindus outnumber Muslims by about 8 to 1. Hindus 80.5%; Muslims 13.4% Quite a spread hey?
TABLE 21: DISTRIBUTION OF POPULATION BY RELIGION
Religion
Number
%
All religious communities
1,028,610,328
100.0
Hindus
827,578,868
80.5
Muslims
138,188,240
13.4
Christians
24,080,016
2.3
Sikhs
19,215,730
1.9
Buddhists
7,955,207
0.8
Jains
4,225,053
0.4
Others
6,639,626
0.6
Religion not stated
727,588
0.1
Source : Religion, Census of India 2001
http://censusindia.gov.in/Census_And_You/religion.aspx
link to former thread here on RF.
http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/islam-sword.20228/
Sees
Dragonslayer
Islam has always been a thorn in the side of India, if not absolute nightmare, up until today. Millions slaughtered, enslaved, the people and their holy places looted, etc. Enforcement of a caste system would spring up and dissolve over and over again before and after Islamic rule.
How has India actually benefited from Islam? Islam in India is probably the biggest tragedy in world history.
gnostic
The Lost One
Yes, I agreed to both of your posts, pro4life.
Being "spread by sword" is REALLY NOT the problem for me.
Like you said, many kingdoms and empires have expanded their borders through wars and conquests.
It is paarsurrey and few other Muslims here, who deny it ever occurred. Paarsurrey repeated copy-and-paste from Wiki articles, showed that he is not interested in debate, and sadly in self-denial the history of Muhammad and the later successive Islamic empires.
Not long after Muhammad's death, there was even power struggle among Muslim factions (like civil war).
Paarsurrey is even self-denial, that not all conquests were self-defence actions.
They attacked (the then Byzantine) Syria and Persia, not long after Muhammad's passing. Those were actions of not defensive warfare, but offensive ones. You may think the Muslim army were liberators, but they are still offensive wars.
And the main reason why the Arabs won these campaigns is that there have been decades of series of battles between Persians and Byzantines, before Muhammad was born. Both sides were seriously weakened during 610s and 620s.
The whole attack-only-in-defense Muslims should only attack when being attacked, is a myth, as far Muslim history is concerned.
Even today, there are some Muslims pining over the lost empires, but they refused to learn the lessons of the past. My problems with some Muslims here, is that they want to change history, only remembering the goods, not the bads.
The self-denials and attempts to their "Islamic" history, only makes today's Muslims like "liars" and propagandists.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I have proved that Islam is peaceful and due to its inner strength spread very naturally. No war was waged for spread of Islam, wars are fought for different reason by the rulers and dynasties, spread of Islam was no reason that was applied by Muhammad in his battles.
Regards
Regards
McBell
Unbound
You have not proven any such thing.
At least, not in this thread.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
McBell
Unbound
Yes, plenty of times you tried and failed.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
McBell
Unbound
I understand you are not going to be able to comprehend this, but your false dichotomy is not impressing anyone outside your choir.
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