Let's Stop Pretending That Islam is a Religion of Peace

[David1967]

It is the Arabic word for non-believers. Dunno why people act up and refuse to translate it. Arabs are really bad in English

Very ugly word

 

[Sees]

Very ugly word

Distinction between believers and non-believers is key to all areas of Islamic thought.

Here is a good link concerning it http://islamqa.info/en/11400

 

[Smart_Guy]

I do not know why some people like to address Islam in such way. I don't mind criticism and negative understanding of the belief itself, but I think giving expressions like "stop pretending" that has the potential of being rude to followers of any belief system is provoking, inappropriate and something goodness does not accept. To whom would this expression mostly be understood really?

Anyways, if Islam really is not a religion of peace, why would verses such as these exist:

Quran 16:125
Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided.

Quran 4:105
Indeed, We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth so you may judge between the people by that which God has shown you. And do not be an enemy to your opponents.

Quran 29:46
And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."

Quran 60:8
God does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, God loves those who act justly.

Quran 2:188
And do not consume one another's wealth unjustly or send it [in bribery] to those in charge in order that they might aid you to consume a portion of the wealth of the people in sin, while you know [it is unlawful].

I' don't memorize Quran much and those verses are from my memory only. I only found the verses' numbers and translations online.

Why the religious negativity? Religion is not as simple as Mercedes vs BMW, it is something deeply respected and followed. It is not acceptable to show passive-aggressiveness towards it to transcend just talking about into implying negativity to its followers. Even in criticizing cars, people don't say "stop pretending". I however think Mercedes is better than BWM, and that's my opinion. I also don't pretend it is better, I only think so.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Very ugly word

It is just a neutral word really. I was called infidel by Christians and I could not get angry at them because in their mind and definition, I might very well be an infidel. But I agree, it is ugly.

Edit:
I mean could not get angry. Fixed.

 

[Rival]

I do not know why some people like to address Islam in such way. I don't mind criticism and negative understanding of the belief itself, but I think giving expressions like "stop pretending" that has the potential of being rude to followers of any belief system is provoking, inappropriate and something goodness does accept. To whom would this expression mostly be understood really?

Anyways, if Islam really is not a religion of peace, why would verses such as these exist:

Quran 16:125
Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided.

Quran 4:105
Indeed, We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth so you may judge between the people by that which God has shown you. And do not be an enemy to your opponents.

Quran 29:46
And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."

Quran 60:8
God does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, God loves those who act justly.

Quran 2:188
And do not consume one another's wealth unjustly or send it [in bribery] to those in charge in order that they might aid you to consume a portion of the wealth of the people in sin, while you know [it is unlawful].

I' don't memorize Quran much and those verses are from my memory only. I only found the verses' numbers and translations online.

Why the religious negativity? Religion is not as simple as Mercedes vs BMW, it is something deeply respected and followed. It is not acceptable to show passive-aggressiveness towards it to transcend just talking about into implying negativity to its followers. Even in criticizing cars, people don't say "stop pretending". I however think Mercedes is better than BWM, and that's my opinion. I also don't pretend it is better, I only think so.

The stop pretending part is because here in the west we are being blasted with the idea that Islam is a religion of peace and anyone who says otherwise can actually be kicked off of twitter or facebook or out of class or wherever, called an 'Islamophobe'. I think we should be free to critique whichever faiths we like.

 

[paarsurrey]

Those Religions which thrived in the Middle East before Islam which are now oppressed:
- Christianity
- Zoroastrianism
- Judaism
- Various forms of Paganism
Last, Bahai is struggling to make a niche for itself because Islamic "justice" keeps sentencing them to death and oppressing them. They shut down their schools and other such places.
How many of these groups live in peace in Muslim lands?
How many Churches, Synagogues and other temples exist in, say, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan? Either not many or none, and none are allowed to be built anew and the current ones are not allowed to be repaired.
Second, jizyah - a tax for Christians and Jews to pay just so they can live in Islamic lands which were once their own! How many Christian countries fine you just for being Muslim? I certainly can't name any.
According to Muhammad:
Narrated Said bin Jubair:
Ibn 'Abbas said ... "The Prophet on his death-bed, gave three orders saying, ‘Expel the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula, respect and give gifts to the foreign delegates as you have seen me dealing with them.’ I forgot the third (order)" (Ya'qub bin Muhammad said, "I asked Al-Mughira bin 'Abdur-Rahman about the Arabian Peninsula and he said, ‘It comprises Mecca, Medina, Al-Yamama and Yemen.’" Ya'qub added, "And Al-Arj, the beginning of Tihama.") (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 288)
Here is the Qur'anic ayah about jizyah:
Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgement of superiority and they are in a state of subjection [Quran 9:29]
We have to pay a tax (jizyah) and be in "subjection" or else the Muslims will KILL us.
Here are the words of one Sheikh Najih Ibrahim ibn Abdullah:
"...to spare the blood (of the Zimmis [Dhimmis]), to be a symbol of humiliation of the infidels and as an insult and punishment to them, and as the Shafi`ites indicate, the Jizya is offered in exchange for residing in an Islamic country." Thus Ibn Qayyim adds, "Since the entire religion belongs to God, it aims at humiliating ungodliness and its followers, and insulting them. Imposing the Jizya on the followers of ungodliness and oppressing them is required by God's religion. The Qur'anic text hints at this meaning when it says: `until they give the tribute by force with humiliation.' (Qur'an 9:29). What contradicts this is leaving the infidels to enjoy their might and practice their religion as they wish so that they would have power and authority."
In one SAHIH BUKHARI HADITH Muhammad boasts:
Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).
[4.52.220]
Muslims not to take Jews and Christians for friends:
O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people [Quran 5:51]
It also calls them 'unjust people'.
Wife-beating permitted by God himself:
Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great. [Quran Verse 4:34]
This isn't even if they have proven themselves unfaithful, but only even if the husband 'fears' it.
Jews and Christians as the worst of creatures:
Verily, those who [despite all evidence] are bent on denying the truth - [be they] from among the followers of earlier revelation or from among those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God - will find themselves in the fire of hell, therein to abide: they are the worst of all creatures. Surah 98 ayah 6
Please stop parading this as a Religion of Peace, because it's not.

Thanks for quoting from Quran, the first and the foremost source of guidance whatever the denomination of the Muslims.
I would just like to ask little questions in this connection:

• Have you read Quran personally from cover to cover?

For information of my friends here, I have read Yasna, the scripture of the Zoroaster from cover to cover and I liked it most like I have read scripture attributed to Moses (called Torah/OT) from cover to cover and I liked it most. I also read scripture ascribed to Jesus (called Gospel/NT) . I read scripture accredited to Krishna (called Bhagavad Gita), similarly a concise collection of Buddha's scripture by the name Gospel of Buddha and also Dhammapada . So I like all these religious scriptures and the Heroes to whom these scriptures belong. My intention has never been of dissension but of peace and unity.
My little questions are therefore in the same spirit.

• Is Jizya being enforced to any people these days?
• Did the West not charge heavy reparations from Japanese, to demilitarize their forces,stationed their troops in Japan and charge them heavy fees for protecting them?

Regards

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Distinction between believers and non-believers is key to all areas of Islamic thought.

Here is a good link concerning it http://islamqa.info/en/11400

What that link says is very frightening!

 

[paarsurrey]

That was written over a thousand years ago and most Muslims don't participate in such acts. Why criticize behavior written in a book that most Muslims don't participate in? What do you gain from it, except for starting up things?
Personally this thread is nonsense.

Worldly or secular punishments are prescribed and carried out as per the Law of Land a Muslim lives in, the rest is left for the hereafter.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

That book is the foundation of the Religion. There is no Islam without the Qur'an.
That book is the foundation of the Religion. There is no Islam without the Qur'an.

That is true.
Regards

 

[Smart_Guy]

The stop pretending part is because here in the west we are being blasted with the idea that Islam is a religion of peace and anyone who says otherwise can actually be kicked off of twitter or facebook or out of class or wherever, called an 'Islamophobe'. I think we should be free to critique whichever faiths we like.

The way it is put suggests that it is the norm for Muslims to impose themselves on others and to be arrogant in "pretending". It does not address that specific group you are talking about above. "Here in the West" does not define all people world wide.

But if that was what you meant, then I take it back, although the expression still semantically sounds generalizing. I also never implied that you are not free to criticize other faiths. What made me sad is that expression only and you seem you did not mean to be rude with it.

 

[mystic64]

But drones is very peaceful.


The civilized west killing Wedding Guests


I would advise u to look into the bloody history of christianity and west. It would surprise u that Western Bloodthirstyness is the reason why Native Americans are smallest minority in their own homeland. Why millions of blacks killed by the civilized west during slavery.

Servant of the One, I would like to thank you for participating in this topic, your voice is needed. I would like to run some history by you and get your input on it. Back before The Prophet the Arabic tribes were considered third class citizens by the Jews and Christians that were living with them and thought of a basically the dogs of the desert. And these tribes worshipped different deities and were constantly fighting with each other. The Prophet changed all of that. He united the Arabic tribes under one religion and one God and he gave them validity as human beings and as the children of Abraham and he brought peace. The problem came after The Prophet ascended when the son in law of The Prophet objected to the son of The Prophet being given the leadership of Islam. The son in law was a general and was the fist of The Prophet when peace didn't work and The Prophet needed a fist. And the son was inclined toward peace and the son in law was inclined toward "conversion by sword". When the son in law did not get the leadership of Islam he moved to Persia and converted the Persians to Islam and his version of Islam. One Holy Book, conversion by sword, and Islam the world's only religion. Now what is funny is that Persians are not Arab and no Arab considers them Arab and these Islamic Persians moved back into the world spredding the son in laws version of Islam .

Now what is my Point? The version of Islam of the "son in law" of The Prophet is "not peace". The version of Islam of the "son" of The Prophet "is peace" (if Islam is not persecuted). The Arabic side of Islam is inclined toward peace if not persecuted. The Persian (now Iran) is not inclined toward peace until the whole world is Islamic. There are two versions of Islam at work in todays world and one version uses the Islamic Holy Scripture to promote peace while the other version uses the Islamic Holy Scripture to promote war. If you follow the version of "the son" of The Prophet, then Islam is a "peaceful" religion and a religion to be loved. If you follow the version of "the son in law" of The Prophet, then Islam is "not a peaceful" religion and is a religion to be feared.

Rival's OP is correct if one follows the "son in law's"/Persian version of Islam. But her OP is not correct if one follows the version of the "son" of The Prophet. There are two versions of Islam in play in today's world and one of those versions is not a religion of "peace". The son in law/Persian version of Islam is not a religion of peace and that version uses Islamic Holy Scripture to declare Holy War on all that are not supporters of their version of Islam. And they are to be feared as well as understanding their mission. The world domination of Islam.

 

[paarsurrey]

Godobeyer said: ↑
seems its was required to post your thread in Islam DIR .

cut the hand of thief :
But i believe if this practice seriously , there is no theif in the world will dare to steal people .

anyway there is different interpretations about this , depending the situation , so repent is what concern , and back the money (thing) to his owners .

We in Algeria don't practice cut of the hand of theif too , we replace it by jail .
and also for cheated wife or husband , its replace by tax of divorce , that's depend to them (couple) to pass it or put in it court.

In other words, not actually doing what your God ordered.

It is OK; the Law of the Land is being followed as per the commandment of G-d. Cutting of hand is restricting one to do the crime of stealing; the arrest has restricted one to do the crime of stealing. The Law of the Land is conscious of the crime and does not favour stealing. One purpose of any punishment is to reform the criminal in a society/culture and not to facilitate the criminal.
Regards

 

[YmirGF]

One purpose of any punishment is to reform the criminal in a society/culture and not to facilitate the criminal.

Permanently physically disabling a segment of the population is hardly a noble act. It speaks volumes of the inhumanity of those who think this just.

 

[Nietzsche]

Distinction between believers and non-believers is key to all areas of Islamic thought.

Errr, isn't that true of almost any faith that believes it's the One True Way(TM) and that "God is on my side"? I mean, at the very least, that's the key component to the vast majority of the Abrahamic beliefs.

 

[paarsurrey]

Permanently physically disabling a segment of the population is hardly a noble act. It speaks volumes of the inhumanity of those who think this just.

It is the society to enact secular laws so that criminal does not damage the rights of other lawful and innocent persons. No doubt the criminal as a human being has got certain rights but in no case he can be allowed to trespass the right of others and he must respect the right of the others. The punishment within the available resources must reform the criminal yet in no case the society should be left at the mercy of the criminal to repeat the crime again and again and again. There are other ethical, moral and spiritual aspect to the issue.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

I do not know why some people like to address Islam in such way. I don't mind criticism and negative understanding of the belief itself, but I think giving expressions like "stop pretending" that has the potential of being rude to followers of any belief system is provoking, inappropriate and something goodness does accept. To whom would this expression mostly be understood really?
Anyways, if Islam really is not a religion of peace, why would verses such as these exist:
Quran 16:125
Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided.
Quran 4:105
Indeed, We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth so you may judge between the people by that which God has shown you. And do not be an enemy to your opponents.
Quran 29:46
And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."
Quran 60:8
God does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, God loves those who act justly.
Quran 2:188
And do not consume one another's wealth unjustly or send it [in bribery] to those in charge in order that they might aid you to consume a portion of the wealth of the people in sin, while you know [it is unlawful].
I' don't memorize Quran much and those verses are from my memory only. I only found the verses' numbers and translations online.
Why the religious negativity? Religion is not as simple as Mercedes vs BMW, it is something deeply respected and followed. It is not acceptable to show passive-aggressiveness towards it to transcend just talking about into implying negativity to its followers. Even in criticizing cars, people don't say "stop pretending". I however think Mercedes is better than BWM, and that's my opinion. I also don't pretend it is better, I only think so.

I like and endorse your views.
Regards

 

[Lyndon]

The stop pretending part is because here in the west we are being blasted with the idea that Islam is a religion of peace and anyone who says otherwise can actually be kicked off of twitter or facebook or out of class or wherever, called an 'Islamophobe'. I think we should be free to critique whichever faiths we like.

Except that its by no means normal to defend Islam as a religion of peace in the West, what is normal is to attack vilify and lie about Islam in any way possible, as has been done in this thread.

 

[Rival]

Except that its by no means normal to defend Islam as a religion of peace in the West, what is normal is to attack vilify and lie about Islam in any way possible, as has been done in this thread.

Please point out any lies.

By the way, in the UK most people defend Islam. I don't know if you've ever been here.

 

[Rival]

Also, one person's 'attack' may be another's valid criticism.

 

[paarsurrey]

Rival said: ↑
The stop pretending part is because here in the west we are being blasted with the idea that Islam is a religion of peace and anyone who says otherwise can actually be kicked off of twitter or facebook or out of class or wherever, called an 'Islamophobe'. I think we should be free to critique whichever faiths we like.

Except that its by no means normal to defend Islam as a religion of peace in the West, what is normal is to attack vilify and lie about Islam in any way possible, as has been done in this thread.

The same should be allowed to others also, if that is the point of friend Rival .
Regards