Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[Ben Dhyan]

If you discriminate against people it will have consequences, both for them and for you. Judge and you will be judged. Reap what you sow.

You are the one that discriminates and judges...you are against everyone whom you judge to be not to be as anti-theist as yourself... Accepting the moral teaching of the bible is not discrimination....it is not I who judges you.....but religious truth...the truth of the ages...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You stated that you found the ancients to be more morally aware than you are. I was merely responding with some of the less than stellar problems that age had. And like it or not, the Bible does have examples of same within its pages. No where, OTOH, did I say it was not allegorical or parable or metaphor. I have to wonder, is your back so far up against the wall with a defensive posture here that you are merely attacking because you feel you must? There is no denying that pedophilia can be found in the Bible, examples include Lot and his daughters. Each age has it moral ups and downs Ben. Some ages are less moral than others, IMO. Such as Hitler and genocide of Jews or the Inquisition or any of a number of other historical faux pas. Try to recall that I am not trying to attack you but rather just discussing this issue, where we disagree.

That's fine Jo....I am happy to agree to disagree on some of these issues... Each of us have our own dharma in the greater dharma of the human race ... It is that greater dharma of the human race that religions try to frame as a destiny to which we as individuals should aim. Since we are all unique, there will always be disagreements in this world of time and space...but convergence is inevitable as we approach our greater destiny...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

People who stoned people to death for pretty much anything; who invaded neighboring towns and murdered women and babies, and who practiced slavery, were more morally aware than you are?
Are you sure about that?

So....that people then, as now, do not live by the ten commandments or sermon on the mount is not an indictment on the morality taught in these teachings..

 

[psychoslice]

I will ask respecfully, psychoslice, that you leave my firm faith in God out of a tiff which involves the two of us. Such a low blow of a “rebuttal”...for shame.

And please leave my beliefs out of your narrow mind, you expect respect from me, but you don't do the same for me, its a two way street.

 

[Draka]

You are the one that discriminates and judges...you are against everyone whom you judge to be not to be as anti-theist as yourself... Accepting the moral teaching of the bible is not discrimination....it is not I who judges you.....but religious truth...the truth of the ages...

If @Spiny Norman is against me for not being "anti-theist" I am completely unaware. I have not experienced discrimination nor judgment from him that I can recollect.

As for accepting the moral teaching of the bible, it teaches discrimination. And you may say you don't judge, but you do. And "religious truth"? Please. I'm a theist and I know enough to call that bunk. I don't think you have a clue about the meanings of religions. How to even try to understand the myths. So stuck in trying to take scriptures too literally you don't see that the Christian mythology is just that, myth. Myth like every other religion is built upon. Myth speaks to something different, deeper. It is legend and allegory and metaphor all twisted up together to sort through and gain some kind of meaning from. It certainly isn't stereo instructions to be taken literally.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So....that people then, as now, do not live by the ten commandments or sermon on the mount is not an indictment on the morality taught in these teachings..

You said that, "among the ancients were people wiser and more morally aware than I..."

These ancients you speak of practiced the terrible things I mentioned (at god's command), plus they followed the other 603 commandments. So unless you are stoning unruly children to death or dashing babies' heads against rocks, you are more morally aware than the ancient people you speak of.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

If @Spiny Norman is against me for not being "anti-theist" I am completely unaware. I have not experienced discrimination nor judgment from him that I can recollect.

As for accepting the moral teaching of the bible, it teaches discrimination. And you may say you don't judge, but you do. And "religious truth"? Please. I'm a theist and I know enough to call that bunk. I don't think you have a clue about the meanings of religions. How to even try to understand the myths. So stuck in trying to take scriptures too literally you don't see that the Christian mythology is just that, myth. Myth like every other religion is built upon. Myth speaks to something different, deeper. It is legend and allegory and metaphor all twisted up together to sort through and gain some kind of meaning from. It certainly isn't stereo instructions to be taken literally.

I don't do religious belief...I do religious practice.... Reality is on the other side of beliefs....so it doesn't matter to me if you are a theist or an atheist....unless you realize 'that'' which is on the other side of the belief...it is all relative vanity... As for Spiny being against you....on matters of God, it's a no brainer.. his Dr Evil avatar is well chosen....

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You said that, "among the ancients were people wiser and more morally aware than I..."

These ancients you speak of practiced the terrible things I mentioned (at god's command), plus they followed the other 603 commandments. So unless you are stoning unruly children to death or dashing babies' heads against rocks, you are more morally aware than the ancient people you speak of.

Are you for real? Your logic implies that because bad people lived contemporaneously with good.....all of them are to be judged bad.. Don't you ever get embarrassed about the difficulty you have in reasoning?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Are you for real? Your logic implies that because bad people lived contemporaneously with good.....all of them are to be judged bad.. Don't you ever get embarrassed about the difficulty you have in reasoning?

I was following your line of logic, so maybe you should be embarrassed. You're the one who said ancient peoples were wiser and more morally aware than you are. I was pointing out that you are more morally aware than the ancient peoples of the Bible. Most of us seem to be, actually.

 

[dgirl1986]

OK, even I know that's waaaay off from the truth.

You want a bet? There are christians in America that believe black people are inferior to them and should have stayed slaves.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I was following your line of logic, so maybe you should be embarrassed. You're the one who said ancient peoples were wiser and more morally aware than you are. I was pointing out that you are more morally aware than the ancient peoples of the Bible. Most of us seem to be, actually.

You still do not follow.... watch and take note...2000 years ago there were many bad people that were less morally aware than I, but then Jesus was a contemporary of these bad people whom was more morally aware than I... I learnt from the teaching of Jesus, not from the bad people..This is true of all ages...people range from the most evil to the most morally high.... Btw, have you heard the phrase...."don't throw the baby out with the bath water"...learn from it?

 

[dgirl1986]

And the idea that a supreme being would have any interest in what people get up to in the bedroom seems absurd to me.

Not just absurd, but super creepy.

No we are still learning more things about Sex, Gender, and Sexuality every day.

Yay science!

Yyukk.....

It is this attitude that drives the opposition to being gay in modern day religion.

Personally, I won't be satisfied until homosexuals are so accepted in society that we don't even have a word or concept for "heterosexual" and "homosexual."

A lot of people are so stuck on rigid labels, most would not acknowledge sexual fluidity and gender fluidity.

 

[dgirl1986]

Hell will freeze over before that happens....

I thought you were supposed to operate in your religion outside of societal norms. Isnt that what is instructed?

But that was not Spiny's point, he doesn't understand why they would not just naturally include the LGBT options of using them....

Every way the LGBT folk do the dirty deed is how straight people also do the dirty deed. I do not know why people are so obsessed about how other people have sex.

 

[MountainPine]

WOW, okay.....

Even though I've stated that I wasn't going to participate in this thread anymore, I need to say a couple of things:

1. I'm beginning to think that the whole reason why this thread was created was to expose all the "homophobes" to either disrespect them or ban them.

2. Judging someone's person or religion as "homophobic" because they believe homosexuality is immoral is wrong and not fair. For thousands of years people have held the view that a relationship between a man and a woman is natural because their pieces fit together, and that two hot dogs and two bagels don't fit. It is a moral objective to many, and it is wrong for homosexuals to expect tolerance from those whom they know don't approve; to expect others to throw away their world view for the sake of their sexual preference. It's completely selfish. Why do homosexuals care so much about what others think of them? That's a serious question because all they think about is acceptance.

3. This whole thing about homosexuality vs religion is way overblown. It is a violation of freedom of religion to force churches to perform gay marriages, or to force Christian judges to issue a marriage certificate for homosexuals, or to close down cake shops because the owners object to make wedding cakes for gay couples. Equal rights, huh? I don't think so.

Here's the solution: maybe homosexuals should just accept the fact that not everyone is going to approve of their lifestyles and deal with it. It isn't the end of the world.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You still do not follow.... watch and take note...2000 years ago there were many bad people that were less morally aware than I, but then Jesus was a contemporary of these bad people whom was more morally aware than I... I learnt from the teaching of Jesus, not from the bad people..This is true of all ages...people range from the most evil to the most morally high.... Btw, have you heard the phrase...."don't throw the baby out with the bath water"...learn from it?

You're not following your own line of logic. You say that your “moral conscience is derived initially from religious scripture” because “among the ancients were people wiser and more morally aware than I.” These are the same ancient peoples that accepted commandments from god to stone people to death and murder babies. I assume you do not stone people to death and murder babies (I hope) because you probably consider them to be immoral actions (and rightfully so). So you are actually more wise and more moral than these ancient peoples. In actuality, you are exercising your own morality, as most everyone does (as Spiny Norman pointed out long ago to which you replied that your moral conscience is derived initially from religious scripture). So now I find myself needing to ask, if god commanded you to bash some babies’ heads against some rocks, would you do so, thinking it was the moral thing to do?


So when you said “among the ancients” you really just meant one guy – Jesus? Why not just say that in the first place?

When did Jesus ever specifically mention and condemn homosexuality, like you have done on this thread?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

It is this attitude that drives the opposition to being gay in modern day religion.

The bowels are full of stool and toxic stuff, bacteria etc.. and what comes out has a yucky smell.... It is hardly the place I imagine nature meant as a venue for sex...

 

[Oldsoul]

........among the ancients were people wiser and more morally aware than I...

The ancients also ..

*Killed to spread religion .

* Condemed the simplest sciences as the work of the devil.

*Chopped the hands of thieves.

*Crucified anyone that applied logic to..or questioned religious beliefs.

*Commanded armies to murder first born children.

*Murdered to obtain land.

* Enslaved others based on ethnic differences.

*Sold others into slavery.

*Poisoned monarchs and leaders out of jealousy.

*Abandoned newborn babies if they seemed weak , sick, handicapped or if they were NOT male.


If you are trying to "Debate" the best of morals died with "the ancients " .. take a better stance..?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The bowels are full of stool and toxic stuff, bacteria etc.. and what comes out has a yucky smell.... It is hardly the place I imagine nature meant as a venue for sex...

Why are you focusing on anal sex? There's way more ways for men to have sex with each other than anal, and straight people have anal sex more than gay or bi men.

Besides, your argument doesn't really factor in lesbians (although some of them enjoy anal sex, too).

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

a relationship between a man and a woman is natural because their pieces fit together, and that two hot dogs and two bagels don't fit

That's flat-out wrong. There's individual variance in anatomy. Some males are too big to fit into some women and some women just cannot comfortably tolerate vaginal penetration (either because of personal preference or because of their anatomy). (Some men are also too small to adequately please certain women.) Plus, the main female center of sexual pleasure (the clitoris) is not within the vagina and is not adequately stimulated by vaginal penetration alone.

You can't really make such broad, sweeping statements like that. It's just simply incorrect.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You're not following your own line of logic. You say that your “moral conscience is derived initially from religious scripture” because “among the ancients were people wiser and more morally aware than I.” These are the same ancient peoples that accepted commandments from god to stone people to death and murder babies. I assume you do not stone people to death and murder babies (I hope) because you probably consider them to be immoral actions (and rightfully so). So you are actually more wise and more moral than these ancient peoples. In actuality, you are exercising your own morality, as most everyone does (as Spiny Norman pointed out long ago to which you replied that your moral conscience is derived initially from religious scripture). So now I find myself needing to ask, if god commanded you to bash some babies’ heads against some rocks, would you do so, thinking it was the moral thing to do?


So when you said “among the ancients” you really just meant one guy – Jesus? Why not just say that in the first place?

When did Jesus ever specifically mention and condemn homosexuality, like you have done on this thread?

I specifically mentioned to you in my post #1623 the ten commandments and sermon on the mount as the relevant teachings.... so Jesus never mentioned sodomy, but then neither did he mention beastiality, pedophilia, etc... And I remind you that it is not I who originates the condemnation, but the scriptural teachings on morality...